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The Free Dictionary Language Forums
Sunday, October 18, 2009
Tuesday, June 13, 2017 9:25:36 AM
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Last 10 Posts
Monday, June 12, 2017 5:13:27 PM
Lascia ch'io pianga sung by Philippe Jaroussky
(When I run out of milk.)
Saturday, July 23, 2016 7:50:17 AM
, I agree that there is nothing more annoying than people from other countries commenting on your country's politics. I don't mean to tell anyone how to vote.
, what I remember from reading Animal Farm some time ago is that the relationship between rulers and the working populace is symbolized as humans and animals on a farm. Eventually,–I forgot how exactly,–some sort of socialist revolution takes place and the pigs on the farm take the place of the humans and start imitating their dictatorial ways instead of distributing the power to the other animals or taking proper care of them. It struck me that the left wing demands for greater government or other power structures are often justified with promises of taking care of the weak or protecting the vulnerable but end up being nothing more than statist and political power grabs.
Friday, July 22, 2016 10:03:41 PM
To elect a leader who has taken donations from countries that murder homosexuals and enslave women, and will not oppose an ideology directly threatening these groups of people (read: islam) would be very hypocritical of moralistic leftists. I agree she should be swiftly dumped.
It is however no surprise to find that leftists don't actually care about women and homosexuals or other underdogs, they're just convenient causes to exploit in order to transfer power from the people to the state (themselves). Hijacking revolutions, like everywhere else, but incrementally. They are (spoiler) the walking pigs of Animal Farm.
It ends when people see through the narrative, and realize that the left, in fact, doesn't have their back. The state/leftist media shall keep trying frantically to repair their evidently inconsistent and incorrect world view. Tomorrow you will see them attempting to explain how an Iranian-German's suicidal shooting spree is totally unrelated to the policy of letting Iranians live in Germany without the requirement of cultural integration.
Monday, March 28, 2016 2:45:05 PM
Tunaafi, I think our conversation bore the fruit it will. I'll see you around.
Monday, March 28, 2016 12:46:51 PM
A claim which is not mentioned in the article.
Yes it is.
The figures are facts. Your assumptions are ... well, assumptions.
Yes, and quite reasonable ones.
What is your evidence for that?
Please tell me how having a large portion of the population not being interested in defending the country of their residence, or not being permitted to do so by another portion of the population is not a bad thing.
The statistics appear to show higher percentage of Muslims in Britain than of British people as a whole serve in the armed services.
I don't think so:
muslims in armed forces: 600 = 0.004 total forces => total forces = 600/0.004 = 150 000 => non-muslims in forces = 150 000 - 600 = 149 400.
pop. of UK = 65 million (doesn't actually matter);
muslims in UK = 0.043 * 65 million = 2 795 000;
share of muslims in armed forces = 600/2795000 = 0.000215;
share of non-muslims in armed forces = 149400/(65 million (1-0.043)) = 0.0024;
So it seems there are not many muslims in the armed forces.
Such a survey might show a similarity of opinion among the three. This would suggest that there may not be much difference, but is not proof of it. In any case, one would have to define 'democracy' very carefully - and also 'popularity'.
I understand you agree with my two statements.
Monday, March 28, 2016 11:52:41 AM
You are cherry-picking. You missed the conclusion of the article
No I didn't, it's just not relevant to my claim that more muslims wish to fight in syria than join the UK's armed forces.
You could also use these figures to 'prove' that most Muslims are pacifist or that the British army is deliberately not recruiting Muslims. These beliefs are no more than unsubstantiated assumptions.
These are facts, not beliefs or assumptions. All possible causes of the facts would be bad for the country, and betray that there is problem in society.
edit: it is true that I don't know what the estimate of 750 is based on, my point was to illustrate the deterioration of shared values among people as the glue in society.
In any case, the 212000 people in the regular and reserve armed services represent 0.33% of the population, so the Muslims seem to be more prepared to defend Britain than the population as a whole.
Could you explain this further? I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Has anyone put that claim forward?
It's worth investigating in any case. Why should it be presumed to be true?
Even if they had, logical argument requires proof of positive claims. It is no more possible to prove an absence of significant difference between one religion and another that it is to prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist.
Two things on this: (1) we're using inductive reasoning and not deductive reasoning, i.e. we deal not with logical proofs but finding which claims are supported by evidence; (2) it is perfectly possible to find evidence for the fact that there is no significant difference between (people adhering to) one religion or the other, for instance one could survey the popularity of democracy among catholics, protestants and anglicans and find that there is not much difference.
Monday, March 28, 2016 10:31:24 AM
In western europe muslims are vastly overrepresented in all these activities and more
What evidence do you have for that statement?
as a westerner you can trust your fellow men and women to be the kind of people who you can stick up for and who will stick up for you so long as you don't betray these basic principles.
Have you any evidence that this is so?
And this is when you find as the UK that more muslims wish to fight in syria than join your armed forces.
How do you know how many Muslims 'wish to fight' in Syria (or 'wish to join' our armed forces? Are you a mind reader?
You have given us a few Trump-like claims with absolutely no evidence for any of them.
There is quite a bit of evidence for all these things. I think most countries keep statistics on matters of crime and population (mine does, not in english), and police departments publish reports too.
On the syria thing this Guardian article is helpful:
, in which is said:
According to a freedom of information request to the Ministry of Defence from 2014, there are 640 Muslims in the armed forces
Shiraz Maher, a senior research fellow at the International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at King’s College London, estimates that 750 Muslims have gone to Syria to fight over the last three to four years.
Furthermore this article (
According to the Ministry of Defence, there are only around 600 British Muslims currently serving in the Armed Forces, making up approximately around 0.4% of total personnel. 4.3% of the British population are Muslim.
which makes me think that in general muslims in britain aren't particularly interested in defending britain when it comes down to it.
Finally, the proposition that there is no significant difference between muslims and christians in western (european) countries is one that requires evidence too.
Monday, March 28, 2016 9:57:01 AM
I am not advocating the use of guns and bombs, or religious warfare, but I am denying that the difference between christians and muslims in western european societies is superficial (e.g. merely a different name for God, a different day of prayer, some cosmetic differences in feasts, habits, traditions and food preparation). Instead, I find in my personal life, as well as in statistical reports, that there are, in general, fundamental differences. Whether these differences are due to religion, or culture, or something else doesn't matter to me. Instead I care about the effects they may have on society.
Monday, March 28, 2016 9:05:37 AM
In western europe muslims are vastly overrepresented in all these activities and more, I disagree that it is only a few. However, instead of dealing with specific issues let's look at the general case: there is a general consensus in the west on certain values and aspects of politics (most favour democracy, value freedom of the individual, value education, etc.), which is important to our societies because it means that as a westerner you can trust your fellow men and women to be the kind of people who you can stick up for and who will stick up for you so long as you don't betray these basic principles. If then substantial shares of the population immigrate from non-western areas, and demonstrate not to share these principles, but instead have different principles of their own, then this basic trust among people in societies deteriorates which causes problems in politics and public life. And this is when you find as the UK that more muslims wish to fight in syria than join your armed forces. I think this is behind many of the current problems in european countries and it serves no one to delay addressing it.
Monday, March 28, 2016 7:15:28 AM
The christians I know don't force women to cover their hair, let alone murder them when they wish to marry outside their faith; they don't threaten or use violence against gays and jews, and they don't participate in a dumb education-free macho subculture. Yet I could give examples of these actions performed by muslims from my personal life. To dismiss the proposition that there may be a problem with muslims is to do injustice to muslim women and men, and to gays and jews.
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