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User Name: 26letters
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Topic: Photo 'dispels Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory'
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:05:39 AM
excaelis Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 6:36:57 PM
I have the same problem with most government conspiracy theories. On the one hand most government departments couldn't organise an orgy in a whorehouse, while on the other we believe them to be capable of vast, intricate conspiracies involving thousands of people.
AS regards 26's abuse example, I wouldn't say that there was much of a secret about it ; the problem was/is that a blind eye was turned for so long.


26letters writes: "thousands of people"?? I can't think of any conspiracy theories that would have involved "thousands of people." Usually the only ones directly involved are those who take orders from superiors. Even if the moon landing were to be staged, it could still allow for an actual rocket launch. Mission control doesn't have thousands of people in the room, workers would need to be briefed about the importance of this mission's success and then it's just a matter of following orders (or be replaced by someone else who will.)

This still doesn't mean that I believe that's what happened. I'm just saying that's not a concrete argument.

Regarding the abuse example, do you honestly think that parents would intentionally subject their children to this treatment, if they knew about the abuse? It was standard procedure to transfer the offending priest to a new and unsuspecting congregation where he could make a new start of abuse. It was a win/win situation for the church. The old congregation is assured that the priest has been dealt with and they assume all is well just because he's been taken out of the picture. The new, unsuspecting congregation welcomes a new priest who, no doubt, comes with a glowing recommendation.

Speaking of this, Ireland's government has been making efforts to distance themselves from the Catholic Church and it's authority. The Vatican is trying to keep a strong hold, but it's slipping. (I think the news article I read said that Ireland is about 80 or 90% Catholic. I'm going to have to go back and find the article.)



Topic: Photo 'dispels Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory'
Posted: Monday, September 19, 2011 12:39:03 AM
I appreciated your input, Geeman. Well balanced.

Another reason for the increase in conspiracy theorists is the fact that there has been a major break in trust affecting almost every facet of society.

Before the lid blew off, exposing the extent of child sexual-abuse perpetrated by those in authority within the Catholic Church, it was all just a conspiracy theory. The church was respected, even revered. For anyone to have the gall to suggest that Father So-and-so acted in an unholy way, was to ask for ostracism from the entire community - and no doubt to be branded by many unmentionable names. The church was extremely successful in keeping a lid on it - and further making victims out of the victims. Now, the conspiracy is no longer just a "theory".

Remember Watergate? If someone were to suggest that the President was involved in unethical or criminal activity - again, it would just be a "conspiracy theory". It's no longer just theory.

The list goes on and on.

Every crazy news-worthy event involving politicians, clergy, celebrities, those in law-enforcement, teachers, business, etc. usually starts out as an accusation by one party, which in turn leads to doubt, ridicule and claims of a conspiracy theory against the accuser - eventually coming full-circle to full disclosure of wrong-doing. The first defense is to vilify the accuser.

Obviously, fear can lead to unreasonable suspicion. Many theories have no basis. But that doesn't mean that they can all be dismissed as a blanket rule.

Topic: Photo 'dispels Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory'
Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:56:18 PM
Ray41 Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:12:22 AM
26letters, do you think that these three guys have blatantly lied about landing on the moon, and, therefore, are frauds??


26letters writes: Probably not. I think is fairly likely that the moon landing happened exactly as it's purported to have been. But I don't want to base my belief just on the fact that it is distasteful to suggest that fraudulent activity was involved. Besides, it's not "fraudulent" when you're doing for your country - it's "heroic". People have done much more controversial things "for your country." It's not like they were being ordered to drop an atom bomb on a large, heavily-populated urban area. (or two)

There was a manned launch on July 16, 1969. There was another manned launch and moon landing only four months later, on November 14, 1969. If the US jumped the gun and went ahead to launch a moon-landing mission before they could guarantee the safety of the men on board, it would have been a humiliating defeat.

The incessant beep every 96 minutes from the radio beacon on board the orbiting Sputnik announced to the world that the Soviet Union was technically superior to the US. (And militarily, considering they could now launch a surprise attack in under 30 minutes.)

The US had to squelch this as quickly as possible by being the first to land a man on the moon. The USSR may not have appeared capable of doing so in the immediate future (although they were preparing Alexey Leonov to be the first to do a moon walk) there was really no guarantee that they couldn't. After all Sputnik took the world, including the US by surprise.

Again, I'm not saying that it didn't happen in July instead of November; I'm simply saying I want a better reason to believe it than what has been offered so far.

Topic: Photo 'dispels Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory'
Posted: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:24:17 AM
Just to set the record straight, I'm not convinced one way or the other. But I've never, never, ever been one of those people who believes something just because "I said so."

I will not believe something just because I'm ridiculed for having an open mind to consider other possibilities. I will not believe something just because it's been relentlessly hammered into my brain. I will not believe something just because "everybody else believes it." The only reason everybody else believes it, is because everybody else believes it. I will not believe something just because it's unpatriotic to think otherwise. That's the funniest strategy. In a country that prides itself for freedom of speech and freedom of thought, people are forced to hide in a closet if they don't submit to the prevailing mores. To have the guts to even suggest another thought, one is confronted with the same puritanistic treatment that some suggested only "religion" could bring about.

An emotional response will only push me to believe the opposition. Give me something substantial to consider.
Topic: Photo 'dispels Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory'
Posted: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 1:33:26 PM
I forgot to add that the actual launch could still take place on the day it was supposed to. (In fact my husband watched the actual launches at Cape Canaveral.) The only difference is they would do the usual orbit instead of a landing. Then it's just a matter of supplying a staged feed of a landing. Not too difficult - unless they get the feed mixed up and show "The Honeymooners" with Ralph threatening "to the moon, Norton!"
Topic: The Radium Girls
Posted: Monday, September 12, 2011 5:47:05 PM
I think it's all just another conspiracy theory. Everybody knows that big businesses care about their workers and the environment, first and foremost. And the idea that doctors, dentists and researchers would be in on it is just too much! There's no way that those appointed to "do no harm" could ever be bought or threatened. The mistake was not having politicians in charge of the whole business. Then we know that no harm could be done.

(Me sarcastic? Just another conspiracy!)
Topic: Photo 'dispels Moon Landing Conspiracy Theory'
Posted: Friday, September 9, 2011 10:57:53 PM
I think most people would acknowledge that the US teams landed on the moon multiple times. What often is being questioned is when the first landing was. It wasn't called the "space race" for nothing. There was a great deal at stake being the first. Would it be the US or would it be the Soviets? To some, it would not be inconceivable to stage a landing - buying time to tie up all the actual loose ends and then shortly afterwards make the actual trip complete with photo and film coverage, leave junk behind on the moon in exchange for a few rocks.
Topic: Religiosity and depression
Posted: Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:50:15 AM
I can think of at least two simple reasons why religious (by that I mean Christian) people would be less depressed:

1. If they truly believe in the God of the Bible, they know he is a God of love. They know that nothing can separate him from them, feeling certain that their prayers are heard. They know that as the most powerful and intelligent person in the universe, nothing can stop him from helping them in the most intelligent way.

2. Accountability - They know that not only are they accountable to God for how they treat their fellowman, their fellow Christian is too. That means in a congregation of people who study the Bible and make efforts to live by it, each one can reasonably expect to be treated in a heartfelt kind and loving way - and they are expected to show the same consideration.


Of course, just as being religious is not going to fix a broken leg, being religious is not going to cure a chemical imbalance in the brain. Often-times "depression" is not further classified to differentiate between that which is caused by circumstance and that which is caused by physical impairment. Although, anyone experiencing depression cannot go wrong when they have the support of those who care about them.

As far as "intelligence" or "education" goes, it shouldn't be assumed that only stupid people turn to religion. I think it can be safely said that looking to a higher power takes a certain amount of humility. Pride can be a serious handicap, and often the more "educated" a person feels they are, the more high-minded and less likely they are to depend on anyone but themselves. But as times get tougher and life is out of our own control, that painful feeling of utter helplessness forces you to acknowledge a higher power and to ask him for help.
Topic: Christian fundamentalist: Menace to society?
Posted: Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:56:24 PM
uuaschbaer Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2011 10:18:12 PM
If a Creator existed I would punch him in the face.


26letters writes: Oh great! Just when I was trying to decide whether to punch his mom or dad - or maybe even the Prime Minister of Norway...you go and add another member to the fray!

I guess it depends. Was he more "Norwegian" or "Christian" or just another son of his mom and dad?

Really, who should we blame?

(I think we should blame online forums. Somebody probably said something that got his underwear in a wad!)
Topic: Does God even care about religion?
Posted: Monday, July 11, 2011 11:32:22 PM
Geeman Posted: Sunday, July 10, 2011 3:48:10 PM
See, this is the fundamental fault of religion, and a great example of why God does not actually care about religion. God is NOT your mother, father, a doctor or a teacher. God is a Creator, which is an entirely different, and alien concept.

Religions attempt to reduce God into a sort of proto-human with very human goals and interests. I'll not speculate much on why that might be... but it's safe to say that doing so has more to do with the origins of religion in ancestor worship and the effectiveness of such a method in controlling people.

God is not interested in religion. Religion is a construction of humans that, at best, God finds rather amusing and strange. Christians actually worship a statue of a man on a cross, despite specific commandments (albeit man-made ones) not to do so. Some Jews grow funky curly cue hair tassles based on a misreading of another passage. Buddhists, despite their views on materialism, construct massive temples that are at essentially and primarily materialist. Muslims regularly ignore their own text in favor of a political reading that justifies any number of modern concepts.

The interesting thing about religion is how quickly it turns into a system of contradiction and hypocrisy. That, of course, has to do with how effectively it can be used to control people. After all, if worshippers are ALWAYS wrong then they can ALWAYS be told what to do in order to correct their faults.

In any case, it's safe to say that God is above such things. ("Above" in the sense of "beyond" not "up" in heaven....) God probably looks at the way people manifest their spiritual feelings into religious dogma and is dismayed. I lot of the time, though, I suspect God is entertained by the hilarity of millions of people pointed their butts to the sky to bow down to Him. In general, I think He's probably more dismayed by the speed with which people get it all wrong....



26letters writes: Thanks Geeman, I always appreciate your input. You're right. God is not something to be simplified into the basic constructs that we know. But the fact is, God is something that we (finite creatures, made of physical elements that we have not even completely identified;) cannot comprehend. So he describes himself as a father and used anthropomorphic use of imagery so that we can understand how he wants us to view him.

He knows human nature. Do you think that he would not know that humans have a tendency to want to be the center of the universe? Humans want to rule their domain; whether it's a house, a neighborhood, a high school, a town, a city, a state, a country, the whole world - of even by-pass all that and rule their minds, whatever. "Religion" can be one of those facets used just the same as ... politics, media, peer pressure, fear ... (um, I'm still thinking). Anyway, you get the idea. God knows that his resources will be abused and so he makes sure that with absolute certainty a person will find the truth - if "truth" is what they want. (If they're only fooling themselves, forget it!)

It may seem that religion was invented by humans, but it wasn't - at least not originally. (It didn't take long for humans to learn how to USE it.) How else could an invisible God compel physical creatures to want to reach out to him, but to also create a spiritual need in them. Fulfilling that spiritual need brings us so much closer to happiness, than ignoring it - much like ignoring our physical needs only makes us more frustrated.

Matthew 5:3 "Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need ..." NWT

Matthew 5:3 "How blest are those who know their need of God;" NEB

Happiness comes as a result of having your need filled. (as verse 6 says, in fact all of the "beatitudes" reveal that happiness will be found in one's search for truth, because it's all there - to found in the Bible.) Filling your physical needs satisfies for an hour, maybe less, maybe more - but satisfying your spiritual needs lasts a lifetime.

In reading your post, "I suspect God is entertained by the hilarity of millions of people pointed their butts to the sky to bow down to Him." No, there are truly sincere people who worship God in the only way that they know. He will never laugh at them as they try. Instead, he will make sure that they are able to find out exactly how to worship him in a way that he approves. These people deserve to know. They don't deserve derision.

We have faith in God - He has faith in us.