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Profile: mrscoul
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User Name: mrscoul
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Joined: Friday, April 3, 2020
Last Visit: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:35:08 AM
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  Last 10 Posts
Topic: Errors in the Dictionary
Posted: Monday, July 19, 2021 6:30:13 AM
thar wrote:
Are you sure?
I think that might be the verb "to can" - to preserve food by sealing it in a tin.
That is not a modal verb.
To can, cans, canned, canning.


I can't see a mistake with the modal verb 'can'.



OH!!! You are RIGHT! It is not referring to the modal verb "can," but "to can."

I also think you mean "can," not "can't."


Topic: Errors in the Dictionary
Posted: Sunday, July 18, 2021 7:28:49 PM
There is an error in your dictionary, even though it is not really your dictionary but cited from Collins English Dictionary, but I am still letting you know:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/can

The preterite form of "can" is "could" and there is no future tense for "can," yet in the dictionary the preterite form is "canned" and future form is "will can."
Topic: election to vs election for
Posted: Friday, November 13, 2020 9:57:25 AM
Jigneshbharati wrote:
Elections to the European Parliamenttake place every five years by universal adult suffrage, and with more than 400 million people eligible to vote, it is considered the second largest democratic elections in the world
Elections to the European Parliament - Wikipedia
Why do we use the preposition "to" and not "for" in "election to the European Parliament"?
Which meaning of the preposition "to" is used here?
I know "to" is used to show movement and "for" for purpose.


https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Prepositions.htm
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Categories-of-Prepositions.htm

You've answered your own question. "To" is moving towards the election. "For" signifies the reason or purpose.

There are 3 categories to which "to" belongs to: time, direction or movement, connection.

I suggest you read up on it.
Topic: Strictly BrE Punctuation...
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2020 4:24:22 PM
Correction of what I was thinking: (3) Amanda said, ‘I heard Jack say “I’ve got everything under control”.’ (Confusing. It is utilizing a reporting verb, but the period is inside the single quotations)
Topic: How asking
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2020 12:06:08 PM
Audiendus wrote:
How asking students across the world to draw an effective leader unearthed some fascinating cultural differences.

mrscoul wrote:
Unfortunately, I wouldn't agree with my fellow colleague, Audiendus. "How" is not an adverb and it IS a complete statement, an independent clause, not a dependent clause, or a question--which I think seems to be confusing you.

Now, I am not an English teacher. However, one of the ways to determine whether a statement is a question, or not, is by using one of the auxiliary verbs right after these types of words.

How
What
Where {is, are, will...}
Why

Now, "asking" is a participle and "unearthed" is the verb. It doesn't follow the normal paradigm of a "question word" with one of the auxiliary verbs. Thereby, it needs to be looked at sententially. Otherwise, it will be very confusing for you. There are instances where these "question words" may be used and still not be treated as a question. Sometimes they are used as rhetorical devices which aren't meant to be answered like a normal question and answer.

I agree that it is not a question. But it is not a complete statement either.

If we put an exclamation mark at the end, it would be a complete sentence, like "How I love this place!" But that would not make sense in this case; the sentence in blue above is not meant as an exclamation.



You can wish to add an exclamation if you wish, but a period is just as appropriate. I found a source which may be of some benefit to you: https://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/qMarks.asp



Topic: How asking
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2020 11:05:59 AM
Audiendus wrote:
Jigneshbharati wrote:
How asking students across the world to draw an effective leader unearthed some fascinating cultural differences.

Yes, it is not a complete sentence; it is a title, like "How I solved the puzzle".

"How" is an adverb. The rest of the sentence is a dependent clause introduced by "how". There is no independent clause, so the sentence is incomplete. To complete it, we would need to say something like "This is how asking students across the world to draw an effective leader unearthed some fascinating cultural differences".

The structure of the dependent clause is as follows:

Subject: asking students across the world to draw an effective leader [gerund phrase]
Verb: unearthed
Direct object: some fascinating cultural differences.


Unfortunately, I wouldn't agree with my fellow colleague, Audiendus. "How" is not an adverb and it IS a complete statement, an independent clause, not a dependent clause, or a question--which I think seems to be confusing you.

Now, I am not an English teacher. However, one of the ways to determine whether a statement is a question, or not, is by using one of the auxiliary verbs right after these types of words.

How
What
Where {is, are, will...}
Why

Now, "asking" is a participle and "unearthed" is the verb. It doesn't follow the normal paradigm of a "question word" with one of the auxiliary verbs. Thereby, it needs to be looked at sententially. Otherwise, it will be very confusing for you. There are instances where these "question words" may be used and still not be treated as a question. Sometimes they are used as rhetorical devices which aren't meant to be answered like a normal question and answer.
Topic: Strictly BrE Punctuation...
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2020 8:40:16 AM
goronsky wrote:
Thank you so much for your insightful reply - it makes total sense.


I am not so sure. You see, I too am wondering about how the rules work, so don't take my word for it, just yet. I am confident on the use of commas amd quotations. That does make sense to me. However, the uses of periods do not. I posed a similar question on an another thread titled "Errors in the Farlex Grammar," so I will try to infer my conclusion the best way that I understand it:

Source: https://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst201136_Errors-in-The-Farlex-Grammar-Book.aspx

TFD wrote:
“They told us, ‘We don’t have the budget for more staff.’”

This sentence is written according to the punctuation style of American English, which is why the period is inside both sets of quotation marks at the end of the sentence.

‘The prime minister is reported to have said that he is “in disagreement with the president’s remarks”, which prompted a quick response from the White House.

This sentence follows the punctuation style common in British English (signified by the use of single quotation marks at the beginning and end of the sentence), and thus the comma following “in disagreement with the president’s remarks” is placed outside of the closing double quotation mark. The period at the end of the sentence is placed inside of the closing single quotation mark because there is no reporting verb introducing the sentence — thus the period "belongs" to it.


I think that in #1 you need to place the period outside the double quotations but inside the single quotation, unless there is a period and then an another period again on the outside of the single quotation--which would make it incredibly strange. When speech utilizes a reporting verb, the convention in British English is not to include the period or comma unless it is part of the speech. It is only to report the quoted material. The period inside the single quotation marks, from my perspective, seems to belong to the direct speech, even though it is utilizing a reporting verb.

I may be wrong. I need some explanations and examples for myself!

(1) Then she said, ‘Henry said, “I don't care what you do because you're ‘a purveyor of malicious quips’”.’ (Makes logical sense)

or

(1) Then she said, ‘Henry said, “I don't care what you do because you're ‘a purveyor of malicious quips’”.’. (If a period is part of the quotation, does that mean it needs an another period. Weird.)

or

(1) Then she said, ‘Henry said, “I don't care what you do because you're ‘a purveyor of malicious quips’”’. (Since both sentences utilize reporting verbs, does it mean that none of the sentences get the period. Again, it is weird.)

So you can see the confusion and dilemma on my part as well.


Wait, #3 doesn't use a comma after "say" because it is not direct speech or reported speech (indirect speech) utilizing a reporting verb in its past tense. Thus, "I've got everything under control" is being highlighted instead of being reported. Otherwise, it wouldn't use quotation marks at all since it is simply paraphrasing someone's thoughts.

So following along the thought process from #1, I've come up with the possible scenarios:

(3) Amanda said, ‘I heard Jack say[Remove","] “I’ve got everything under control.”’ (Original)

(3) Amanda said, ‘I heard Jack say “I’ve got everything under control”.’ (Confusing. It is utilizing a reporting verb, so the period needs to be inside the single quotations)

(3) Amanda said, ‘I heard Jack say “I’ve got everything under control”’. (Makes logical sense, even though the double quotations only seem to be highlighting sentence and the comma is removed.)

(3) Amanda said, ‘I heard Jack say I’ve got everything under control’. (If you remove the quotations around the hightlighted sentence. Makes logical sense.)

As you can see, I am utterly confused as well. There needs to be an expert on this who can help better explain what is happening and clear this up.
Topic: Strictly BrE Punctuation...
Posted: Thursday, November 12, 2020 3:13:54 AM
Quote:
Strictly per British punctuation, do the examples below appear to be correct with regard to full-stop and comma placements in relation to the quote marks?



I think I am starting to like the puntuation rules of British English a bit more. It seems more intuitive.

(1) Then she said, Henry said, “I don't care what you do because you're a purveyor of malicious quips.”

Seems right.

(2) It poses a formidable barrier, but it is not the high, thick masonry structure that most dictionaries term a “wall”, the report states.

I would probably put the comma outside of the red quotation marks because it doesn't belong to the quote. You can't have commas in quotes unless it is part of an introductory clause, phrase, or something.

(3) Amanda said, I heard Jack say, “I’ve got everything under control.”

Now this one seems tricky. First of all, you are stating this as "Jack say" instead of "Jack said." Thus, it may or may not belong to the double quotations. So I am a bit iffy on this. It is also a matter of direct vs. indirect speech.

(4) The sayings ‘Discretion is the better part of valor’, "A stitch in time saves nine’, and ‘No good deed goes unounished’ are among my favorites. (Should the commas go outside or inside, considering these are full sentences.)

I don't think it matters whether the sentences are full or not. The comma doesn't belong to the sentence and therefore you can't place the period in the middle of the sentence either. Plus, there is a typo which I've highlighted in red.


Let me know what you find.
Topic: A comma in quotation problem.
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:52:13 AM
mrscoul wrote:
I understand. Thank you.

While I do know the answer, from the following source <https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2011/08/punctuating-around-quotation-marks.html>, I am posting simply for educational purposes and contend that it doesn't matter if it is American or British English because the quotation is nested within another quotation. Therefore, whether singular or double, the quotation marks are on the outside of a "period" or "comma," no matter what. Other punctuation marks have different rules.


My conclusion is not entirely accurate. It has been further clarified in the following thread, titled "Errors in The Farlex Grammar Book":

https://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst201136_Errors-in-The-Farlex-Grammar-Book.aspx
Topic: Errors in The Farlex Grammar Book
Posted: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:13:09 AM
I can't think of a scenario where a "period" could be used in this situation with the reporting verb.

However, the "comma" would be on the outside--w.r.t. British English--right?

‘The prime minister said, "He is in disagreement with the president’s remarks"’, remarked Mike--which prompted a quick response from the White House.