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Profile: Hope123
User Name: Hope123
Forum Rank: Advanced Member
Gender: Female
Joined: Monday, March 23, 2015
Last Visit: Saturday, July 24, 2021 10:28:52 PM
Number of Posts: 10,141
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  Last 10 Posts
Topic: Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 10:27:47 PM
thar wrote:
In this day and age, you still get people who think this is OK

European Beach Handball Championships: Norway hit with 1,500 euros bikini fine

Norway have been fined 1,500 euros (£1,295) for wearing shorts instead of bikini bottoms at the European Beach Handball Championships.

The European Handball Federation (EHF) said it had imposed the fine because of a case of "improper clothing".

Norway's players wore shorts instead of bikini bottoms during a bronze medal match against Spain in Varna, Bulgaria.

Norway's Handball Federation (NHF) had already stated it would pay if their players were fined.

An EHF statement said a disciplinary commission had imposed a fine of "150 euros per player, for a total of 1,500 euros".

It added that Norway had played with shorts that are "not according to the athlete uniform regulations defined in the IHF [International Handball Federation] beach handball rules of the game."

Kare Geir Lio, the head of NHF, had told news agency AFP any penalty would be paid but added: "It should be a free choice within a standardised framework.

"The most important thing is to have equipment that athletes are comfortable with."

Before the Championships, Norway approached the EHF to ask for permission to play in shorts but were told that breaches of the rules were punishable by fines.

A Norwegian motion to amend the current rules will be discussed by the bodies in the coming months.

"The EHF is committed to bring this topic forward in the interest of its member federations - however, it must also be said that a change of the rules can only happen at IHF level," said EHF spokesman Andrew Barringer.

The issue has been debated in beach sports circles for several years as some players find the bikini both degrading and impractical.

Beach volleyball already relented and gymnasts have pushed against expectations, but the idea you would fine a competitor for not wearing bikini bottoms still exists.

German gymnasts' outfits take on sexualisation in sport
Published23 April

Germany's Sarah Voss performs on the balance beam during the women's qualification round of the 2021 European Artistic Gymnastics Championships in the St. Jakobshalle in Basel, Switzerland, 21 April 2021
image captionSarah Voss said she hoped other gymnasts would follow the team's example
She did not break any rules, but Sarah Voss's full-body suit this week at the European Artistic Gymnastics Championships defied convention.

Until now women and girls have only covered their legs in international competition for religious reasons.

Voss, from Germany, said she was proud of her decision and she was supported by her country's gymnastics federation.

Two team-mates then did the same on Friday, wearing full-body suits during the women's all-around final.

The German federation (DTB) said its gymnasts performing in the Swiss city of Basel were taking a stand against "sexualisation in gymnastics", adding that the issue had become all the more important to prevent sexual abuse.

"We hope gymnasts uncomfortable in the usual outfits will feel emboldened to follow our example," said Voss.

Kim Bui of Germany competes on the beam during the Women's Artistic Gymnastics Finals at St. Jakobshalle on April 23, 2021 in Basel, Switzerland
image captionKim Bui took to the beam in a full-body suit two days after Sarah Voss had done so in Basel
Kim Bui had initially performed in a conventional leotard on Wednesday but said they had wanted to set an example as a team. Elisabeth Seitz said earlier that it was one less thing to worry about, as there was no risk of revealing anything by accident.

'I began feeling increasingly uncomfortable'
Voss explained her decision in an interview with public broadcaster ZDF: "We women all want to feel good in our skin. In the sport of gymnastics it gets harder and harder as you grow out of your child's body. As a little girl I didn't see the tight gym outfits as such a big deal. But when puberty began, when my period came, I began feeling increasingly uncomfortable."

The German federation said sport and gymnastics should be fields where female athletes felt comfortable in their clothing at all times.

In a message posted on Instagram on Thursday, Voss described the decision as a project "close to the hearts of our team". Her performance on the beam had not gone as well as she had hoped, she said, but her message won widespread praise. "Feeling good and still looking elegant? Why not?" she wrote.

Under the rules of the international gymnastics federation (FIG) competitors are allowed to wear a "one-piece leotard with full-length legs - hip to ankle", provided it is of elegant design.

Seitz said everyone trained in full-body outfits and then at one point asked themselves why they should not do the same in competition.

Beth Tweddle on puberty & women's sport
Dutch Gymnastics has also praised the move. A spokesman told public broadcaster NOS that judges had often deducted points when a competitor had tried to make her leotard more comfortable during their performance.

image captionElizabeth Seitz came fifth on Friday in the women's all-around final
Voss said that while she had never herself been abused, she and her colleagues were role models for younger athletes and wanted to encourage everyone to stand up for themselves.

US gymnast Simone Biles, who has said she was sexually abused by jailed sports doctor Larry Nassar, said last week that one reason she was competing at the Tokyo Olympics this year was to speak out and give survivors of abuse a voice.


Let the male organisers expose their bodies and get sand up their arses to sell their product!

Sources and

In the spirit of solidarity and teamwork, this post seems to have omitted all my "i" s. Or maybe it is just my system. Anyway, sorry if this appears on your screen as a 'bring your own letter i' post.

Thar, I think all but one agree that women should be allowed to choose their own clothing especially in a sport, no matter the reasoning behind the rules. To fine them just added insult to injury. I just saw a photo of two local women in their "costumes" and I could not believe how skimpy they are. It's a wonder they stay on during all the vigorous movement. Perhaps that is what the attraction is...

To the other posters on this thread except the FounDit account: Sorry that once again I helped let a con man with no intention of having a legitimate discussion hijack a thread by throwing out his obsessive-compulsive hatred of Leftists, all things progressive, and anything to do with change. We know this because he reads only the posts that give him confirmation bias, ignores facts presented, continuously spreads misinformation from extreme right sources, refuses to obey the rules or the requests of other posters, throws in unnecessary political comments, and still uses ad hominem.

I miss Romany who added a lot of educational facts and perspectives to many many topics, and others who have left because of the FounDit account. It was because of that account that the admins finally got fed up and deleted the Politics sub forum as there was so much contention. Now this account has moved Politics to other sub forums, hijacking them.

But we LET that account hijack the threads when we respond to the barbs.

Perhaps we should avoid interactions with this account and not give give it the engagement it seeks to spread the RWNJ misinformation. It is hard to ignore and not correct misinformation but I shall try.

Topic: Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:07:16 AM
FounDit wrote:
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
I just can't but wonder how the simple question about human rights turned political, and about feminism and leftism. Thar and others have talked about the right of every individual to decide what kind of garment they would like to use while playing.

The Texan trumpists seem to concider these things with their balls rather than with their brains.

Question: When have human rights not related to politics and culture?


When the admin of a Forum tells everyone to cease and desist re Politics and you are the only one who thinks he is entitled and above the rules, while furthering propaganda you know is misinformation in support of whatever cause it is you think you are supporting.

Topic: Meanwhile in Finland
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 3:58:47 PM
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Rantasauna is best described as waterside sauna. Built on the shoreline, or very near it, so that you can jump to the river, lake, or sea right from the sauna balcony.

Most saunas built together with the summer cottages are rantasaunas, mostly wood-heated. Most of the saunas in private apartments are electrically heated.

Ah so. Makes sense.

I'm past the wood fireplaces with smoke now.
Topic: Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 3:54:04 PM
FounDit wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:

I won't pretend I've read the whole thing you linked to because I already gave up after the quoted paragraphs. It smacks of a keenness to dodge all responsibility by claiming 'biology made me do it'.

There's biological impulses and then there's learned behaviour. Claiming that objectification of women is not a product of society is extremely short-sighted. Objectifying women is misogynistic, because you're people with impulses and impulse control. There are enough men and women out there who find other people attractive and still don't make those thoughts and impulses someone else's problem. The 'single greatest proof' is that if a gay man sexually objectifies another man, it's also a problem.

Another quote from the article you didn't read which, I think, clearly explains your viewpoint. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion:

But regarding male sexual nature, unless girls and women are taught about male sexual nature — and few are, especially in our time — there is no way they can understand male sexual nature. It may be the one area of life wherein men are more capable of understanding women.

The second reason is modern feminism — and leftist doctrine in general. Each has contributed to an unprecedented female ignorance — denial, actually — of male sexuality. And that is the result of a basic impulse of feminists and leftists: the denial of truths that make them uncomfortable.

I know you are talking to Lotje, and do not read my posts. But what the hell -

As Lotje says in so many words, there's a difference between looking and leering and BOYS should be taught the difference by their parents, learn to control their impulses, and to RESPECT women. Feeling entitled to everything (by everybody actually) these days, including women by men, is a big problem in society.

And the bikinis during sports are definitely for leering.

I didn't need to tell him but I did tell my husband-to-be 60 years ago - "look but don't handle the merchandise". He turned 90 this year and still subtly appreciates a beautiful female body. BTW - women appreciate beautiful male bodies too.

FD, you are sadly mistaken if you think females are not aware of male testosterone and their desire to "get into the pants" of every female they see.

As tweens I told my granddaughters to believe what boys do, not what they say. And their parents made sure they knew too. After all it is the father who knows what males are like and is more responsible for cautioning their daughters. What a fatuous statement to blame it on females, and "feminists and leftists". Boo hoo! (The one track male mind is supposed to be about sex - not leftists. 😀)

I remember our son telling us about making a joke to a friend about our son needing to protect his girls - he said to the friend with a son: "You have one prick to worry about, I have hundreds". Applause

My older gran is now engaged to be married. The younger one told me she was not interested in the boys in high school as all they wanted to talk about and do was drugs. Sensible girl. She's at uni now and once Covid is over maybe she'll meet a nice youth there.

As for the blanket statement of men understanding women, that is hilarious. Most men claim the opposite.


When considering some of your other viewpoints in other threads over the years, I find it ironical that you call others out re "denial of truth".

Topic: Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:40:22 AM
Oh my, Drago.
Topic: Meanwhile in Finland
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:35:51 AM
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
And here's a rantasauna for Hope.

Thanks, JJ. Love it and wish. That view could easily be Northern Ontario where I used to live for 6 months on an island and the other six months we spent in Fl.

So I wondered what is the difference between a sauna and a rantasauna. But the explanations are not in English (assume it is a modern one with other facilities.)

Or is it where Hope can rant while in the sauna? I have not been in a sauna since I quit LA Fitness a couple of years ago, but I liked to relax and meditate when in it then.
Topic: Meanwhile in Finland
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:31:36 AM
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:

So cute, JJ.
Topic: President Biden supports "right to repair."
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 11:07:48 PM
My war baby generation were taught to "use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without". And I still do that as much as possible, although I haven't darned socks in years. 😀 But this is my fourth iPad since 2011. I'm not sure the old ones could have been repaired. Besides, I liked the lighter ones with more features.

However, if one still likes what one has and it just needs minor repairs for a reasonable cost, then one should be able to do so.

Edited: BTW, Gary, jeans are not usually cut to make them look tattered - they are manufactured that way for both genders.
Topic: Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 7:50:03 AM
To pretend that the way athletes are costumed has no bearing on the way they are perceived would be naïve. There is a reason that Olympic beach volleyball players are often photographed in parts rather than as whole humans: close-ups of butts and torsos and chests rather than as living, breathing, moving marvels. To force female athletes to wear outfits they feel fundamentally limited by or uncomfortable in only serves to perpetuate the idea that they exist, first and foremost, to be consumed. The men can play. The women are putting on a show...No law, regulation or rule is infallible. Guidelines are made to be updated, to evolve with the times and to correct past harms. Ostensibly, in sports, rules exist to make sure that there is as much parity among competitors as possible, to ensure that the terms of the game are known before it starts. The width of a bikini band has no bearing on these terms.
At the end of the day, the focus should be on the physical abilities of beach handball players, not the number of centimeters the seams of their uniforms are from their vulvas. If the athletes who play beach handball are demanding change, ignoring them sends the message that the ability of the public to leer at female bodies is more important than the sport itself.
Topic: Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 7:27:06 AM
Lotje1000 wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:
Oh sorry, I should have said reasonable reasons.

Applause Applause Applause

Right! There are no reasonable reasons why women should be forced to be objectified in order to enter official games. Money should not be the bottom line. (Pun not really intended. Angel )

Eww. I thought about saying men should be made to do the same and then the awful picture of men jumping around in Speedos won't go away.

Equal rights, Hope - men should be allowed to wear what they want, too. Be that shorts or skirts while it's warm, or speedos in places where speedos are appropriate!

Well of course, Lotje. But it doesn't mean it would be pretty. lol

Maybe that is why I don't remember seeing many Speedos on beaches.

Also, I have heard men say that a one piece bathing suit is actually just as, if not more, sexier than a skimpy bikini.

But I digress as this topic is about mandating clothing during sports. Maybe they should stop "man"dating. Whistle

JJ, is that a recent photo?