The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

as way/a way to turn any noun into a modifier Options
anhnha
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2015 2:24:41 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/25/2015
Posts: 20
Neurons: 431
The particle の "no" is extremely versatile. It's used as the Japanese possessive particle, showing ownership, and more generally, as way to turn any noun into a modifier.

I am confused about the boldfaced phrase. Should it be "as a way"?
Is "as" a preposition here? What does it mean?

Sorry for asking lots of questions. The word is difficult for me. Thank you.
zielonosiwy
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2015 4:51:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/2012
Posts: 267
Neurons: 1,154
I'd write: "it is used to turn any noun into a modifier"
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, July 5, 2015 6:24:47 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 6,582
Neurons: 1,243,482
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
anhnha wrote:
I am confused about the boldfaced phrase. Should it be "as a way"?

Yes, the "a" needs to be included.

anhnha wrote:
Is "as" a preposition here?

Yes.
rogermue
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2015 12:54:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/2012
Posts: 5,045
Neurons: 34,900
Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
"as way to turn ..."

is cumbersome and not good.

A clear formulation would be "and as a possibility to turn a noun into a modifier".

Is as a preposition? I guess most dictionaries label "as" as a preposition.
But that is very imprecise as prepostions are follwed by an accusative.

The function word as when used with a noun is normally followed by a nominative.

-I speak as a friend.

In English you have no possibility to see whether a noun is nominative or accusative,
so the problem what case follows after as it not discussed in grammars.

And even I have to think about how to show that a noun after as is no object case.

"as" is a function word with a lot of different uses, but when followed by a noun
it means "in the quality of"

You could say "I speak as a friend" means "I speak in the quality of a friend" or
"I speak in such a way as a friend does".

But I am really not sure whether such an explanation will convince a native that after
"as" follows a nominative.

Perhaps I find something better on the Internet.

PS OALD has "as" + noun as preposition

1 She works as a courier. - courier is nominative
2 Treat me as a friend. - friend is accusative.

"as + noun" is something special, but grammars and dictionaries do a sloppy job when they declare
"as" is a preposition. Perhaps it is really necessary to have a look at German where "als"
can be used with any case

- als ein Freund, nom - als einem Freund, dat - als einen Freund, acc
AndEng
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2015 3:54:12 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/30/2012
Posts: 417
Neurons: 28,497
Hi rogermue,

I think we drift out of the context of the post and even out of subject of the forum,
but could you please give me an example of a sentence containing "als + DAT"? I'm still pretty new to German, and I haven't run into any sentence with als+DAT so far.
Thanks.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2015 6:03:13 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 34,213
Neurons: 224,906
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom

Well, firstly - for anhnha, you have your simple answer from Audiendus:
"Yes, the 'a' needs to be included." and "Yes. [it is a preposition]"

. . . and for rogermue, a 'deeper' linguistic thought.
I had never thought (as English does not have 'cases' for nouns except the possessive) about this. One can see it a little with pronouns.

"I am seen as he who wears glasses." (as + nominative pronouns)
"There are none so blind as he who will not see." (as + nominative pronouns)(but this is the phrase 'so...as')
"Daydreaming of her brother, she turned and saw her cousin as him." (as + accusative pronoun).

I've never heard any rule that a preposition must be followed by an object (accusative noun).
It's just not mentioned (probably because there are only nominative nouns in English).

A word or phrase placed typically before a substantive and indicating the relation of that substantive to a verb, an adjective, or another substantive, as English at, by, with, from, and in regard to. American Heritage
(Grammar) a word or group of words used before a noun or pronoun to relate it grammatically or semantically to some other constituent of a sentence. Collins
a member of a class of words that are typically used before nouns, pronouns, or other substantives to form phrases with adverbial, nominal, or adjectival function, and that typically express a spatial, temporal, or other relationship, as on, by, to, with, or since. Random House, Kernerman, Webster's

So long as a word comes in a 'pre' position (and sometimes not even that!) and relates a noun to other words, it is a preposition in English.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2015 7:56:56 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 6,582
Neurons: 1,243,482
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
Drag0nspeaker wrote:
"I am seen as he who wears glasses." (as + nominative pronouns)
"There are none so blind as he who will not see." (as + nominative pronouns)(but this is the phrase 'so...as')
"Daydreaming of her brother, she turned and saw her cousin as him." (as + accusative pronoun).

I've never heard any rule that a preposition must be followed by an object (accusative noun).
It's just not mentioned (probably because there are only nominative nouns in English).

To complicate matters further, we sometimes use the accusative pronoun where the meaning is nominative:

"I have always admired Churchill, and I am appearing as him in the play."

So it is simplest to regard "as" as a preposition each time.
anhnha
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2015 11:56:16 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/25/2015
Posts: 20
Neurons: 431
Good evening,
Long time no see!
Thank you all for the detailed explanations.
I was "Square". I lost my password so I registered with a new account.
http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/profile1002929.aspx
It is great to meet all of you again, especially Drag0nspeaker, rogermue, TheParser, thar, IMcRout.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Monday, July 6, 2015 1:30:42 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 34,213
Neurons: 224,906
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom

Well, welcome back -it is quite a while, nine months I'd say.
Dancing
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.