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Is this true? Options
Kami
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:57:44 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/2009
Posts: 229
Neurons: 687
Let me see if I got this right...
> - IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER
> ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER
>ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER ILLEGALLY, YOU GET SHOT.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE SAUDI ARABIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE JAILED.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE CHINESE BORDER
>ILLEGALLY YOU MAY NEVER BE HEARD FROM AGAIN.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE VENEZUELAN BORDER
>ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE BRANDED A SPY AND YOUR FATE WILL BE SEALED.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE CUBAN BORDER
>ILLEGALLY YOU WILL BE THROWN INTO POLITICAL PRISON TO ROT.
>· - IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER
>ILLEGALLY YOU GET................................
>
> 1 - A JOB,
> 2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE,
> 3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD,
> 4 - WELFARE,
> 5 - FOOD STAMPS,
> 6 - CREDIT CARDS,
> 7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE,
> 8 - FREE EDUCATION,
> 9 - FREE HEALTH CARE,
> 10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON ,
> 11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF
> PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE,
> 12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR
> COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T
> GET ENOUGH RESPECT.

I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE YOU HAD A FIRM GRASP ON THE SITUATION
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2897
>- Release Date: 05/26/10 02:25:00
worldsclyde
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:06:34 PM
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Its a gross exageration of a very complicated issue. The border with Mexico has been lax for a very long time. Mexicans were even brought over by some US industries as cheap labor. Like I say, its a very complicated issue.
grammargeek
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:08:20 PM
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Is there a medical question in there somewhere?
Kami
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:24:04 PM
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Joined: 10/12/2009
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grammargeek wrote:
Is there a medical question in there somewhere?


We'll really appreciate it, if you could give us some recent first hand development on this very complex issue down South.
AnthA1G
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:35:46 PM

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S/he, grammargeek, meant: Why is this in Medicine?
saintvivant1
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:43:07 PM
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You left one out. They also get a job when they come to the US. Offering a job to them is illlegal yet this activity is never prosecuted. Also, the only people in the US who are not immigrants or the decendants of immigrants are Native American Indians.
TL Hobs
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 10:50:21 PM
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Location: Kenai, Alaska, United States
saintvivant1 wrote:
You left one out. They also get a job when they come to the US. Offering a job to them is illlegal yet this activity is never prosecuted. Also, the only people in the US who are not immigrants or the decendants of immigrants are Native American Indians.


Even the Native American Indians came from somewhere else, presumably Asia. In effect, we are all immigrants. Unless you consider only those that have immigrated to the US since it gained independence from England.
avatar
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:34:06 PM
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Are you actually trying to compare the USA with North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, China, Venezuela, and Cuba?

We all get a bunch of propaganda email. Yet, we try to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Indeed, although this message is a gross caricature, the USA and other Western countries do try to honor certain values... that suit their interests.
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:44:46 PM
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They get medical insurance as well!!!
Actually if you come from the North West into Australian waters, you can be locked up in a Detention Centre or if it happens to be over crowded at the time, you are put up in a Motel indefinitely. This is not gross imagination, it is happening in Queensland as we speak (write)
kisholoy mukherjee
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:49:22 PM
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TL Hobs wrote:
saintvivant1 wrote:
You left one out. They also get a job when they come to the US. Offering a job to them is illlegal yet this activity is never prosecuted. Also, the only people in the US who are not immigrants or the decendants of immigrants are Native American Indians.


Even the Native American Indians came from somewhere else, presumably Asia. In effect, we are all immigrants. Unless you consider only those that have immigrated to the US since it gained independence from England.


I second that.
kisholoy mukherjee
Posted: Thursday, May 27, 2010 11:50:07 PM
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grammargeek wrote:
Is there a medical question in there somewhere?


I wouldn't mind that. It keeps happening here anyway.
http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst8663_Docs-Astonished-As-Girl-Grows-New-Kidneys.aspx
peterhewett
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:09:11 AM
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worldsclyde sai


'Like I say, its a very complicated issue'

peter says

That is so. But the post conveys a truism about responses to crossing a border illegally. The point at the heart of the post is true. ( And don't make a joke outa this!)
worldsclyde
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:09:19 AM
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no jokes. Right wing media here has put out this propoganda and it shows up often. Much of it isn't a lie but is misleading and oversimplified as propoganda usually is. It refers mainly to Mexicans crossing into the US for work and has a deep historic and cultural background that could and does fill up books. I encourage anyone interested to investigate but will not try to explain or argue any side here.
Luftmarque
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:42:42 AM

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peterhewett wrote:
worldsclyde said
'Like I say, its a very complicated issue'
peter says
That is so. But the post conveys a truism about responses to crossing a border illegally. The point at the heart of the post is true. ( And don't make a joke outta this!)

But, even if there is a true point in the post, then surely that point is just that we live in a better country than those with the restrictive, inhumane, xenophobic immigration policies, and we should be proud of and thankful for our enlightened laws.
peterhewett
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:54:15 AM
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Yes Mark that is the point I was making. I agree with you. I thought the post was contrasting the inhumane ways of some countries with that of the USA.
worldsclyde
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:13:26 AM
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Joined: 4/24/2010
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Location: Spokane, WA USA
IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. BORDER
>ILLEGALLY YOU GET................................
>
> 1 - A JOB, no, not legally
> 2 - A DRIVERS LICENSE, no, not legally
> 3 - SOCIAL SECURITY CARD, no, not legally
> 4 - WELFARE,
> 5 - FOOD STAMPS, 4 and 5 are the same. laws vary from state to state
> 6 - CREDIT CARDS, no, not leagally
> 7 - SUBSIDIZED RENT OR A LOAN TO BUY A HOUSE, I'm not aware of the laws on this
> 8 - FREE EDUCATION, Many illeagle mexican kids go to public schools. Questions just aren't asked
> 9 - FREE HEALTH CARE, anyone that shows up at an emergency room in the US will be helped
> 10 - A LOBBYIST IN WASHINGTON , Any american can be a lobbyist for any reason/cause. I can lobby for nazis if I want to.
> 11 - BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF
> PUBLIC DOCUMENTS PRINTED IN YOUR LANGUAGE, We have many things in english and spanish
> 12 - AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY YOUR
> COUNTRY'S FLAG WHILE YOU PROTEST THAT YOU DON'T
> GET ENOUGH RESPECT. you can see the right wing whining here.


If you are here illegally, you can't legally do anything. The fact is that Mexicans and some other central american nationals have been coming and going over the border pretty casually for the last hundred years. They are here by the millions now because it was a somewhat accepted, although illegal, custom. Since 9/11, Americans have become much more wary of our insecure border and illegal alians in general.
I don't want our guest from africa to see this propoganda and expect to sneek in and live the good life.
chitta chatta
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:43:08 AM
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tovarish said: They get medical insurance as well!!!
Actually if you come from the North West into Australian waters, you can be locked up in a Detention Centre or if it happens to be over crowded at the time, you are put up in a Motel indefinitely. This is not gross imagination, it is happening in Queensland as we speak (write)

C/c says: I'm not clear if you are defending the illegal immigrants, or supporting them? So I shall presume you are defending them;-

After the war, many natural-born Australians (including my parents+6 children) were group-housed in row-upon-row of HUGE galvanised aircraft shelters at PANANIA, Sydney with MANY other families "FOR YEARS!!!" I don't see what is the difference with this, compared to the illegal immigrants now? Everyone seems to forget that the majority of our nation is "desert", and we just had am EIGHT (8) YEAR drought! Our system cannot cope with our current population...

What's the other option? Let them in and have worse WATER-conditions, worse HEALTH-conditions, worse JOB-condtions, worse HOUSING-shortages, worse CRIME; worse CROPS/STOCK/DAIRY damage, worse NATIVE animals harm (they are known to bring their own poultry, etc)??? I see no harm sheltering them like they sheltered us, until they build more housing. Meantime, they can help them be familiar with our language, environment, laws, and culture so it better meets their later needs. I bet many don't know what a recycle bin is for, and probably don't have pedestrian crossings in some of countries.
chitta chatta
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:47:41 AM
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Joined: 2/22/2010
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I agree with you Kami. People don't know how good they have it in the West. PS you thread has accidentally landed in Medicine, instead of Knowledge and Culture.
Tovarish
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:45:38 AM
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
No CC, I am against illegal immigration.
People applying to come to Australia legally are pushed further back in the que, waiting to be processed.
Scratch an Aussie and you'll find an immigrant.
My husbands family went to Bonnegilla.
Maggie
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:26:34 AM
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Luftmarque wrote:
But, even if there is a true point in the post, then surely that point is just that we live in a better country than those with the restrictive, inhumane, xenophobic immigration policies, and we should be proud of and thankful for our enlightened laws.[/color]


I see so many on this board wanting an open border - or who are sympathetic to those who enter this country illegally from the south. If your ideals are taken seriously, then you must also say that it should be ok for ANYONE on the planet to come to the United States any time they want to, without visa, and without any controls. Just 'come on in' and join the party.

Can you imagine if everyone in the world had the same open access to this country? If it's fair for those from the South, then it should be fair for everyone - from Africa, Europe, Asia, etc.

Imagine.
owlishmonstrosity
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:39:10 AM
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Yes, Maggie. I am trying to imagine..
Maggie
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:55:53 AM
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owlishmonstrosity wrote:
Yes, Maggie. I am trying to imagine..


Isn't it a beautiful thing? And because our country is debt free, we can afford to pay for all this through the endless bounty that enfolds the U.S.

Yes. Imagine.
Cat
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:59:53 AM

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Rules and attitudes need to be allowed to change (evolve). When America was a vast land of emptiness, people were recruited to move there. My ancestors (1800s) were Norwegians wanting land and took up the offer of land in Minnesota. The reason the land was offered was to benefit the railroad line. No one told them about the mosquitoes. (laugh)

The situation is different now. If a person has lost their job/livelihood due to entry-level jobs being filled by "illegal" immigrants so that the company could make bigger profits, they are going to have a more passionate opinion on this. My guess is that those on TFD haven't experienced the problems with immigration that are being discussed. I doubt any of us live at or even near the poverty line since we are all literate and have access to computers.

Fair, like justice, is not real. They are our ideals. Something we strive for but don't always obtain. I think this post illustrates people are concerned and also it illustrates that the solution is not simple.

Remember, sensationalism sells more newspapers and magazines. So who's to say we can understand a problem if our only input is the media? If I were not so lazy, I would get involved in politics starting at the local level and move up from there. So instead I'm a steno chair pontificator.
Isaac Samuel
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:18:57 AM
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Location: United States
In our desire to uphold the notion that we are better than other countries,we have made some
self defeating policies,which have made many countries think that we are duplicitous in our dealings.
Immigration is one among them.

We bring plane loads of refugees from Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan, and settle them
legitimately, but when someone crosses the border from Mexico to better his/her life in our
country,we criminalise them instead of resettling them.

We have issued green cards to people of some selected countries by luck of the draw based on the
quota assigned to each of these countries.

We have given Amnesty to people who have squatted in our land illegally,but we have done
nothing to those people who have been waiting for years in line for their turn to be
called even after they have crossed the Ts and dotted the Is in their applications.

These are just a few, I'm leaving out the others for the sake of brevity.
BUNNY
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:38:21 PM
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Location: United States
My mother brought me up with this phrase:

What's fair is not always equal!

I am a Texan and even though much of the immagration topics really involve me and my fellow Texans, I really feel for both sides. Many of the Mexican population are just wanting a better life and they are willing to do the work that most "Americans" are not wanting (or willing) to do...house cleaning, field workers, ditch diggers...
How are these people "taking away American jobs"? Most "Americans" think they are too good to do this meanial work. But again, I am torn by the other people (including Mexicans) who are trying to get into this country legally but who are delayed or refused the opportunity to come to the states.

I wish there could be some common ground. The Mexican people who are here illegially are not putting money toward their social security (some are toward someone else because they are using anothers social security number), they are not contributing toward the education of their youth, or any of the other programs BUT keep in mind how little most of them are paid...how could you expect that of them realistically?

But it all goes back to what my mother taught me a long time ago....Fair is not always equal. Whistle
kaleem
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:31:12 PM
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The question is "Is it true?"
The answer is "No".
Why?
Because some are distorted facts.


Dreamy
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:45:49 PM

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worldsclyde wrote:

If you are here illegally, you can't legally do anything. The fact is that Mexicans and some other central american nationals have been coming and going over the border pretty casually for the last hundred years. They are here by the millions now because it was a somewhat accepted, although illegal, custom. Since 9/11, Americans have become much more wary of our insecure border and illegal alians in general.
I don't want our guest from africa to see this propoganda and expect to sneek in and live the good life.

What do you think of the suggestion that it's time Canada and Mexico became states of the union with no borders needed, one big happy North American family?
Maggie
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:16:28 PM
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Dreamy wrote:

What do you think of the suggestion that it's time Canada and Mexico became states of the union with no borders needed, one big happy North American family?


For the same reason that New Zealand and Australia aren't part of one big happy family.
Geeman
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 9:59:38 PM

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Dreamy wrote:
What do you think of the suggestion that it's time Canada and Mexico became states of the union with no borders needed, one big happy North American family?

That seems pretty unlikely to me. Though, I admit, I like the idea since it would help eliminate some of the ridiculous fiction and rhetoric we've developed relating to our borders. If nothing else, it would remove the "shield" of the U.S. label from Canada who've always been able to benefit from U.S. foreign policy while protesting it on the international stage. Plus, the U.S. might start getting some reasonable attitudes towards healthcare since both Canada and Mexico are a good 10-20 years ahead of us on that issue, even after all the nonsensical "Obamacare" silliness.
Tovarish
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:06:11 PM
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The last time I checked, families fight like hell.

At one stage you didnt need a passport to go the NZ, or come from.

After that discusting 'under arm bowling' incident, NZ was going to declare war on us.
And half of the Australian population was going to defect!
Maggie
Posted: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:27:09 PM
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Geeman wrote:
Dreamy wrote:
What do you think of the suggestion that it's time Canada and Mexico became states of the union with no borders needed, one big happy North American family?

That seems pretty unlikely to me. Though, I admit, I like the idea since it would help eliminate some of the ridiculous fiction and rhetoric we've developed relating to our borders. If nothing else, it would remove the "shield" of the U.S. label from Canada who've always been able to benefit from U.S. foreign policy while protesting it on the international stage. Plus, the U.S. might start getting some reasonable attitudes towards healthcare since both Canada and Mexico are a good 10-20 years ahead of us on that issue, even after all the nonsensical "Obamacare" silliness.


Thanks for the laugh. We're so far ahead of Canada and Mexico in health care that to say otherwise should be a skit on Saturday Night Live. Canadians COME TO US when they're in serious need of treatment. No lines. No waiting to see a physician. Canada has websites set up to inform the people HOW LONG they're going to have to wait. The U.S. doesn't. The majority of the American people think Obamacare is a huge mistake, and they're going to say so loudly in November.

Dreamy
Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:20:58 AM

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Tovarish wrote:
The last time I checked, families fight like hell.

At one stage you didnt need a passport to go the NZ, or come from.

After that discusting 'under arm bowling' incident, NZ was going to declare war on us.
And half of the Australian population was going to defect!

You can have Russell Crowe as punishment.
Tovarish
Posted: Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:06:04 AM
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Ha Ha, a bit of Colonial Humor, but we do love our cricket.
I was so embarrassed with the Chapell behaviour.
worldsclyde
Posted: Thursday, June 3, 2010 1:27:41 PM
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Dreamy wrote:
What do you think of the suggestion that it's time Canada and Mexico became states of the union with no borders needed, one big happy North American family?

True that it isn't likely but it would have been nice if we had spent billions of $ to try and 'Nation build' in Mexico instead of Iraq, or....(add list here).
Netts
Posted: Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:48:39 PM
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Sorry, still on the cricket & the underarm incident.....yes, the whole of Australia was embarrassed by that - and 29 years later we still are!
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