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jesus' Options
keepyy
Posted: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 11:43:05 AM

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what do you think jesus is the son of god? Dancing
keepyy
Posted: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 11:46:15 AM

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he taught us to pray this way,' father in heaven let your name be blessed'
Apsu
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 1:04:36 AM
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I love the finger-pointing smiley at the end of your question. It's difficult to stop laughing.

Personally, I think God made all of us. In that sense, he was the son of God, and so are you.

By the way, you're on the forum of a dictionary. Can you not even begin a sentence with a capital letter, just for the sanity of English speakers who spend their free time on the forum of a dictionary site? I mean, I don't need perfection, but not even the tiniest effort?

Not to mention, if you have any love for the language, he taught us to pray this way:

"Our Father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven." etc.
keepyy
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 10:08:52 AM

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Apsu wrote:
I love the finger-pointing smiley at the end of your question. It's difficult to stop laughing.

Personally, I think God made all of us. In that sense, he was the son of God, and so are you.

By the way, you're on the forum of a dictionary. Can you not even begin a sentence with a capital letter, just for the sanity of English speakers who spend their free time on the forum of a dictionary site? I mean, I don't need perfection, but not even the tiniest effort?

Not to mention, if you have any love for the language, he taught us to pray this way:

"Our Father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven." etc.
This will be in the thousand years of the reign of Jesus on earth.
...deliver us from evil by your power. for neither your great strength nor your wealth can save you from distress. the evil is the punishment of God, and he gives them the full share.
keepyy
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 10:12:52 AM

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Who has redeemed your soul Drool from going down into the pit?
keepyy
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 10:21:38 AM

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keepyy wrote:
Who has redeemed your soul Drool from going down into the pit?
Do not charge God with wrongdoing in your trouble, when he punish you for your sin. the godless in heart cherish anger, they don't cry for help when God binds them.
keepyy
Posted: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 10:28:20 AM

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Apsu wrote:
I love the finger-pointing smiley at the end of your question. It's difficult to stop laughing.

Personally, I think God made all of us. In that sense, he was the son of God, and so are you.

By the way, you're on the forum of a dictionary. Can you not even begin a sentence with a capital letter, just for the sanity of English speakers who spend their free time on the forum of a dictionary site? I mean, I don't need perfection, but not even the tiniest effort?

Not to mention, if you have any love for the language, he taught us to pray this way:

"Our Father, which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, in earth as it is in heaven." etc.

Jesus came down from heaven, high beyond the confines of the universe to perform a sacrifice and went back. 'let your kingdom come' come back jesus.
keepyy
Posted: Friday, April 10, 2015 7:25:13 AM

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keepyy wrote:
keepyy wrote:
Who has redeemed your soul Drool from going down into the pit?
Do not charge God with wrongdoing in your trouble, when he punish you for your sin. the godless in heart cherish anger, they don't cry for help when God binds them.

hardship does not sprout from the soil, sin produce trouble.
keepyy
Posted: Monday, April 13, 2015 11:14:04 AM

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keepyy wrote:
keepyy wrote:
keepyy wrote:
Who has redeemed your soul Drool from going down into the pit?
Do not charge God with wrongdoing in your trouble, when he punish you for your sin. the godless in heart cherish anger, they don't cry for help when God binds them.

hardship does not sprout from the soil, sin produce trouble.

cast your nuggets in the dustApplause surely then you will find delight in almighty godBoo hoo! treasure up his word and prayPray
keepyy
Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2015 9:10:39 AM

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advanced years should teach wisdom but it is rather the spirit of god, the breath of almighty that gives understanding. and you will understand what is right, justice, judgement...your words coming from an upright heart will utter knowledge clearly. so examine the scriptures in the fear of god, for god alone knows the way to wisdom. wisdom cannot be bought with the finest gold, nor any precious stone.
keepyy
Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2015 9:24:21 AM

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the eyes of the lord are on the ways of men, he sees their every step and takes note of their deedsAnxious . he punishes themd'oh! for their wickedness, who had no regard for his ways. he opens their ears to his instruction that they may return from iniquity, getting them to listen through their punishment calling them from the jaws of trouble. if they dont repent they will die and cross the steam into the world of the dead. for neither your wealth nor your strength can keep you from distress.
keepyy
Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2015 9:36:20 AM

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keepyy wrote:
the eyes of the lord are on the ways of men, he sees their every step and takes note of their deedsAnxious . he punishes themd'oh! for their wickedness, who had no regard for his ways. he opens their ears to his instruction that they may return from iniquity, getting them to listen through their punishment calling them from the jaws of trouble. if they dont repent they will die and cross the steam into the world of the dead. for neither your wealth nor your strength can keep you from distress.

if i have rejoiced over my wealth and felt secureAngel if i have rejoiced at one's misfortune, over the trouble that came to him, these also would be sins to be punishedEh?
karunadas
Posted: Friday, April 24, 2015 3:51:26 AM

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I will give the answer after meet them .
keepyy
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2015 7:01:24 AM

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karunadas wrote:
I will give the answer after meet them .

do you still hold fast your blameless uprightness?
Apsu
Posted: Saturday, April 25, 2015 7:23:36 PM
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With such a gulf of time between his post and yours, I doubt you could still hold him to it.
Still can't manage a capital letter at the start of your sentences?
keepyy
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2015 8:53:42 AM

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Apsu wrote:
With such a gulf of time between his post and yours, I doubt you could still hold him to it.
Still can't manage a capital letter at the start of your sentences?


There is hope for a tree when cut down that it will sprout again but there is no such hope for men. man dies and where is he?
Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2015 10:10:45 AM

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keepyy wrote:
There is hope for a tree when cut down that it will sprout again but there is no such hope for men. man dies and where is he?


Nowhere, but the memories of those whose lives he touched.

Question authority. How do you know, that you know, what you know?
keepyy
Posted: Monday, April 27, 2015 11:19:06 AM

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keepyy wrote:
karunadas wrote:
I will give the answer after meet them .

do you still hold fast your blameless uprightness?

Is there any secret thing with thee? don't be controlled by feeling. Behold Jesus vouch for you in heaven, high beyond the confines of the universe. Pour out tears to God, that he would plead with him on your behalf.
Your spirit is broken, the grave awaits you, who else will give security for you? do you want to go to the bars of Sheol? deep beyond the confines of the universe.
keepyy
Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 11:12:44 AM

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the wicked say, depart from us lord we do not desir the knowledge of your ways. yet is not their prosperity in their hand? the mystery of god dealing with the ungodly.
keepyy
Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2015 9:36:39 AM

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keepyy wrote:
the wicked say, depart from us lord we do not desir the knowledge of your ways. yet is not their prosperity in their hand the mystery of god dealing with the ungodly?.

What God wants he does.
tunaafi
Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2015 10:43:13 AM

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keepyy wrote:

What God wants he does.

He wants some very strange things then.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2015 3:22:05 AM

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Distilled to it's simplest form, there is a 50% chance either way on the Jesus question.

Either He was and therefore is God incarnate, or He was not. The answer is an absolute.

It's your life and your gamble.



"Now" is the eternal present.
tunaafi
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2015 5:28:02 AM

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Absurdicuss wrote:
Distilled to it's simplest form, there is a 50% chance either way on the Jesus question.

Either He was and therefore is God incarnate, or He was not. The answer is an absolute.


I would say that there is a 0.00000001% chance that he was God incarnate, though that's possibly on the high side. I'd put the chance og his actually having lived and preached at about 75%.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2015 7:00:25 PM

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Arbitrary figures tuna. Like the flip of a coin or a choice to go or stay it is an either or paradigm.

Jesus either spoke truth or lied. One may either accept or reject this as truth.

You may choose any store you'd like to visit but essentially the choice is to go or not to go.

A six shot revolver loaded with three rounds pointed at my head gives me a 50% chance of death if fired.

Would I accept a billion dollar wager to test my luck or reject the offer?

If Jesus spoke the truth about himself and I reject him then I am wagering an eternity at 50% odds that he was lying...or insanely delusional.
But the historicity of Christ is so highly credible that the odds weigh against me being right and he being a charlatan or a madman.

Eternity being what it is may I suggest that the question of Jesus is worthy of intense scrutiny by every truth seeking skeptic?



"Now" is the eternal present.
Absinthius
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 9:50:34 AM

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That's just pascals wager. An obvious fallacy. A far-fetched claim like being the son of a magic omniscient and omnipotent being surely doesnt fit in the 50/50 category when it comes to being true. It is a very unlikely claim and to be believable, requires very convicing evidence indeed. Assuming it to be nonsensical is the sensible thing to do if you were a betting man or woman.

Look, how about this? Let's pretend we've had the row and I've won. See? It saves a lot of effort.
pedro
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 10:19:48 AM

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There was a best selling trash book based on the Pascal wager fallacy called 'The Dice Man'- very popular at one with students out of their faces.

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 11:55:02 AM

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Should I go or should I jump somersault?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 1:03:06 PM

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Sorry pedro but I don't understand the last part of your comment. Please make it simple for me. Thanks.

JJ - Well if you can do both simultaneously - apotheosis.


Absinthius - I guess you got me there. You're either right or wrong and you can either believe it or not.

Wagered against eternity I'm going with Jesus as God. If I'm wrong and my consciousness dies with me then I'll have no regrets...on the other hand.


"Now" is the eternal present.
tunaafi
Posted: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 1:19:02 PM

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Absurdicuss wrote:
But the historicity of Christ is so highly credible


That's the problem. It isn't. Even his existence is not proven, though I am prepared to accept that there probably was a real man who inspired the myths, just as there was possibly some real figure behind the King Arthur legends.
pedro
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2015 6:48:03 AM

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Absurdicuss wrote:




Students would sometimes read such books whilst under the influence of mind altering substances in the hope that they would improve its quality. Alas a trashy book is trashy whatever you imbibe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dice_Man

All good ideas arrive by chance- Max Ernst
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2015 6:53:13 AM

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In the short time that he was on earth Jesus cut a path through humanity that shaped the world… he left an enduring legacy. The notion that he, or his teachings, were an invention of anonymous men is ludicrous. His teachings are of great beauty, moving Mahatma Ghandi to say that the world’s problems would be solved if we could but live by The Sermon on the Mount

Did Tacitus, Suetonius, Flavius Josephus or Pliny the Younger exist? Yes of course they did, and all make reference to the person of Christ. Tacitus, a first-century Roman historian, wrote: “The name Christian is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius.”

At one time higher critics of the Bible said that existence of Pontius Pilate, Jesus trial judge, was a figment of imagination until a first century inscription in Latin, carved in stone was discovered at Caesarea ‘Caesariensibus Tiberium Pontius Pilatus Praefectus Iudaeae. ‘To the people of Caesarea Tiberium Pontius Pilate Prefect of Judea.’

Much more important than the testimony of historical figures is what the man left behind, which is a legacy that changed the course of history. Mathew Mark Luke and John left their witness, and James, Jude, Peter and Paul all refer to him extensively… are they, and the historians referred to, all liars?

The gospel accounts smack of authenticity, but I suppose you will always get the deniers similar to those who deny The Moon Landing… The Twin Towers and The Holocaust, to name but a few examples.

If a group of nonsensical people choose to deny such a recent happening as the flying of an aircraft by fanatical Muslim extremists into the twin towers... is it any wonder that the existence of the man Jesus is denied by a few.

One could pick any of the ancient philosophers or historians and deny their existence.




'Life is too short to be eaten up by hate.'
Absinthius
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:19:50 AM

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ithink140 wrote:
If a group of nonsensical people choose to deny such a recent happening as the flying of an aircraft by fanatical Muslim extremists into the twin towers... is it any wonder that the existence of the man Jesus is denied by a few.

One could pick any of the ancient philosophers or historians and deny their existence.


You are completely missing the point here. The existence of jesus, or any particular person that lived long ago, is not really the point of the discussion. He might have lived, he might not have, I think most non-religious people (at least the ones I know) would be more than willing to accept that a man named Jesus existed and served as an inspiration of many during his lifetime.

The point, however, is the claim that he is from divine (magical) descent. A notion that goes against everything we know and understand about the world around us. That is the claim that is met with scepticism, not his existance per se. These two claims are not remotely on the same level of probability, don't ever confuse the two.

So your comparison to deniers of 9/11 is just off-topic and doesnt apply. Give people a bit more credit than that..

Look, how about this? Let's pretend we've had the row and I've won. See? It saves a lot of effort.
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2015 8:42:06 AM

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No, Absin, I am not missing the point at all. My post was in response to Tuffers, who questioned belief in Jesus having ever existed . Perhaps I should have made that plain.

As to whether he was divine in the sense od being God incarnate is another question. My understanding is that he was a man whose life was transferred by God to earth to serve as a example, messenger and ransom sacrifice. He was a like for like sacrifice and the second Adam, as Paul puts it... the second perfect man to live on earth. This qualified him to offer his life in exchange for many and to balance the scales of justice, and by his faithful course he proved that a perfect man could remain faithful... and that under severe test.

In my first post I was dealing with his existence not his divinity, so my comment about deniers is a valid point. Give me more credit please.


PS: As to your comment about magic that is off target. Magic was frowned upon by Christians and had no place in their beliefs. Jesus did not perform magic he performed miracles.

If you were able take a first century man, bring him into the 21st century and show him a Jumbo Jet parked on a runway then tell him that it would fly up into the clouds... but first hundreds of people would get in to take the journey he would not believe it... from his viewpoint it would need the enactment of a miracle. Or perhaps you could show him your iPhone and a moving video of a person speaking in real time from across the other side of the world. Maybe you could point to the moon and say men have travelled to it and walked on it. The point I am making is that a miracle is merely something performed with superior knowledge as yet unknown or understood. It is surely naïve to believe that there are things possible as yet unknown... beyond our ken. Does not modern day life teach us that fact?


'Life is too short to be eaten up by hate.'
Absinthius
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2015 10:24:44 AM

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ithink140 wrote:
My understanding is that he was a man whose life was transferred by God to earth to serve as a example, messenger and ransom sacrifice. He was a like for like sacrifice and the second Adam, as Paul puts it... the second perfect man to live on earth.


So now you are linking the existence of Jesus to that of Adam? That doesn't really strengthen your points. But alright, lets bench the discussion of whether the man existed and assume he did.

That still doesnt make his association with god any more likely, the accounts, resurrection, turning water into wine etc. etc. (this is what I mean with magic) are much more outlandish than the existence of just a man. If those 'historical accounts' describe such phenomena, I'm not sure what that does for their credibility.

As far as the moonlanding or twin towers are concerned, those claims arent based on such magic-ridden ancient accounts, we have actual proof that they happened. They can really not be compared to anything Jesus-related.

Look, how about this? Let's pretend we've had the row and I've won. See? It saves a lot of effort.
tunaafi
Posted: Thursday, May 07, 2015 11:10:35 AM

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ithink140 wrote:
No, Absin, I am not missing the point at all. My post was in response to Tuffers, who questioned belief in Jesus having ever existed .

Jesus! You do twist things. I wrote " I am prepared to accept that there probably was a real man who inspired the myths".
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