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Do you feel patriotic about your country? Options
DarkMoon
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:26:40 PM

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I'm proud of Poland, and I'm too proud of my nation's attainments. I'm proud that we managed to remain independent, to keep our statehood, and to preserve traditions and mores, despite historical and political turbulence within centuries.

I'm not proud of some Polish citizens due to their shameful deeds. I'm not proud of some Polish politicians due to their dishonorable behavior, ill-considered statements and highly irrational and unwise conduct in the international as well as in the local arena.

However, it is important to notice that thoughts from the latter part of my message can't change my attitude and feelings toward the state I live in. What I do think of individuals or some groups of my compatriots can't force me to transfer my perspective and to think that way about my country and the whole nation. Of course, there are things I'm fond of as well as the matters I can't accept, and they all happen in my country situated in the middle of Europe.
vr091073
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:56:15 PM
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Location: Mauritius
oxymoron wrote:
England and it's sycophantic politicians, lords and knights make me want to vomit all over them and then apply a Soweto necklace to those who voted for illegal war, vermin. Patriotism; at what cost to ones own integrity? Haven't been proud of our shitty little island for some considerable time.


But maybe you ought to, oxymoron. Perfidious Albion is about the best thing out there, or not far from it at any rate, regardless of her undoubted shortcomings. I spent the formative stages of my existence in Britain, and in many ways, am a product of it. Then again, India bestowed upon me my genes and philosophical outlook on meta-matters, whilst Mauritius is where I first saw daylight and presently live. In a sense, I'd have to feel patriotic about all of these lands if I had to, considering my personal debt towards each of them. As a previous poster had it, it is a feeling we, as a species, could do well without. Needless to add, I feel warmly indeed vis-a-vis Great Britain as I do toward India, as I do toward Mauritius.
Isaac Samuel
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 11:31:00 PM
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Joined: 4/2/2009
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Location: United States
kisholay:

Historically ex-pat Indians have never been a drain on any country they adopted. Their contributions to the host countries have always been mutually beneficial.

Indians are neither hegemonic nor bellicose to start a fight. Perchance a fight breaks out on territorial disputes, India will only diffuse the situation without escalating it. I have confidence in India that It will never put its expats in a quandary to defend themselves to take sides.

Therefore, your hypothesis is dead on arrival(DOA).
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 3:28:37 AM
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Joined: 9/2/2009
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Personal pride, as apposed to National pride are two different things.

We all know the 'Pride cometh before the fall' proverb, that is quite factual.

National Pride or Patriotism, cannot possibly be taken on Blind Faith.

We are not always right, neither is our Country, or our Politicians and especially not our Religeons.
But not have pride in our countries, to me is quite synical and rather sad.

I will always be a Proud Aussie until proven otherwise.
vr091073
Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:22:06 AM
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Joined: 5/4/2009
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Location: Mauritius
Tovarish wrote:
Personal pride, as apposed to National pride are two different things.


One is just an extension of the other, no matter what amount of word jugglery one may want to indulge in, in an attempt to rationalise the sentiment. What it boils down to is that at the root of the idea lies a deep-seated sense of selfishness, or self-conceitedness. Nowadays, of course, politicians love to prey on these base emotions of the hoi polloi because they are alive to the fact that therefrom can be extracted maximum political capital, in furtherance of their self-interests. I would think that most, if not all, reading these lines will be able to easily identify with this.

Put another way, there is not a single government on the surface of this planet that wants people to regard themselves as earthlings, or simply humans, first and foremost - and for very evident reasons. Playing the patriotism card obviously does wonders for the careers and vested interests of those who rule and govern our nations. The unfortunate, regrettable thing is that most end up buying into this cant. Sad, but then, 'the masses' are what they are!

Quote:
But not have pride in our countries, to me is quite synical and rather sad.


I certainly beg to differ, whilst respecting your particular take. Cheers
kisholoy mukherjee
Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:57:03 PM
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Isaac Samuel wrote:
kisholay:

Historically ex-pat Indians have never been a drain on any country they adopted. Their contributions to the host countries have always been mutually beneficial.

Indians are neither hegemonic nor bellicose to start a fight. Perchance a fight breaks out on territorial disputes, India will only diffuse the situation without escalating it. I have confidence in India that It will never put its expats in a quandary to defend themselves to take sides.

Therefore, your hypothesis is dead on arrival(DOA).


I am not so sure that India will never be at war. By the looks of it, yes, it does seem that India tries her best to avoid war, and I am on the same page with you on that one. I also admire that quality indeed.
I will have my fingers crossed though...
And I also wasn't suggesting that the nation will put the expats in a compromising position by forcing them to choose sides...
I was only asking how expats, like yourself, would feel in case (however improbable, it is still not impossible is it) the hypothetical situation becomes a reality...
Tovarish
Posted: Friday, March 26, 2010 6:30:33 AM
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
I do take your point, vr091073, as we try to do on this forum, with the utmost politeness.

'A deep seated sense of selfishness, or self conceitedness. Emotions of the hoi-poli'.

I really don't know whether to say to you, "Settle down Darrrling' ( that's my hoi-poli side' or

"Get off your high horse' that's my racing side.

Either way I cannot relate your comments to National Pride.

vr091073
Posted: Saturday, March 27, 2010 1:32:03 AM
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Joined: 5/4/2009
Posts: 236
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Location: Mauritius
Tovarish wrote:
I do take your point, vr091073, as we try to do on this forum, with the utmost politeness.

'A deep seated sense of selfishness, or self conceitedness. Emotions of the hoi-poli'.

I really don't know whether to say to you, "Settle down Darrrling' ( that's my hoi-poli side' or

"Get off your high horse' that's my racing side.

Either way I cannot relate your comments to National Pride.



I do believe that a few other commenters have expressed viewpoints broadly similar to mine on this thread. Whether you can or cannot relate the thrust of my post to the theme under consideration is of no consequence at the end of the day. I can, and that was my reason for writing what I did to begin with. Anyway, you're entitled to your stance as I am to mine. Cheers
Tanya'
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:13:28 AM
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Location: Russian Federation
Yeah I like my country, I don't have any hard feelings toward its past, it's just history, you know the Sun always rises and it isn't bad or good same with history it isn't bad or good. There is nothing perfect on the Earth

From other countries I like USA, Britain and German as well
oxymoron
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:27:18 PM
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vr091073 wrote:
oxymoron wrote:
England and it's sycophantic politicians, lords and knights make me want to vomit all over them and then apply a Soweto necklace to those who voted for illegal war, vermin. Patriotism; at what cost to ones own integrity? Haven't been proud of our shitty little island for some considerable time.


But maybe you ought to, oxymoron. Perfidious Albion is about the best thing out there, or not far from it at any rate, regardless of her undoubted shortcomings. I spent the formative stages of my existence in Britain, and in many ways, am a product of it. Then again, India bestowed upon me my genes and philosophical outlook on meta-matters, whilst Mauritius is where I first saw daylight and presently live. In a sense, I'd have to feel patriotic about all of these lands if I had to, considering my personal debt towards each of them. As a previous poster had it, it is a feeling we, as a species, could do well without. Needless to add, I feel warmly indeed vis-a-vis Great Britain as I do toward India, as I do toward Mauritius.


Tis the corrupt and indifferent politicians/mandarins I feel so bitter toward. I cannot help feel to some extent my culture has all but vanished under a hundred others. The terra firma is without question beautiful, bounteous and worthy of poetry. Perfidious Albion, do I take from that you mean we have freedom of speech? Yes we do; but when a people are not represented, dissafection has to follow dear boy, tis the nature of things.
Tovarish
Posted: Sunday, March 28, 2010 9:58:42 PM
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Oxy, has immigration helped or hindered your country?
vr091073
Posted: Monday, March 29, 2010 5:27:10 AM
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Joined: 5/4/2009
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Location: Mauritius
oxymoron wrote:
Tis the corrupt and indifferent politicians/mandarins I feel so bitter toward. I cannot help feel to some extent my culture has all but vanished under a hundred others. The terra firma is without question beautiful, bounteous and worthy of poetry. Perfidious Albion, do I take from that you mean we have freedom of speech? Yes we do; but when a people are not represented, dissafection has to follow dear boy, tis the nature of things.


Amen to that. Goodness knows how invidious I used to find, and still find, the cultural tyranny of the ethnic minorities, and the generally observed ingratitude of most members of these groups, for not acknowledging the immense privilege afforded them of living in the Kingdom, and for wanting to turn the land into a mirror of their own usually squalid provenances. Just for the record, when I was residing in the UK, I lived the British life fully, and did imbibe as much of the British culture and ethos as I could. Hence, I totally get your point, and do in fact wish that many more foreigners who have made Britain their home would do likewise.

Evidently, the prime culprit in this remains politics, as you rightly identify. Then again, we do live in a world that is upside down to an execrable degree, with things as revolting as criminals being awarded more legal protection than victims and so forth, being now commonplace. Frustration, disaffection, dissatisfaction, you name it, all leading to people becoming more inward-looking and basically turning their backs on the wider community are bound to follow, under the circumstances.
kisholoy mukherjee
Posted: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:15:21 AM
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I don't understand what you guys mean by 'cultural tyranny'. Please elaborate.
Are you guys suggesting that whoever visits a foreign country, has to give up everything that they believed in or practised? Yes, I agree one must always keep in mind if someone else is getting disturbed or not in the process of their own practises, but one can keep to himself right? I mean, if I were in UK, I wouldn't have to go church right? (I don't practise any religion) Or would they start making my life miserable if I didn't 'go with the flow'??
vr091073
Posted: Monday, March 29, 2010 6:52:05 AM
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Location: Mauritius
kisholoy mukherjee wrote:
I don't understand what you guys mean by 'cultural tyranny'. Please elaborate.
Are you guys suggesting that whoever visits a foreign country, has to give up everything that they believed in or practised? Yes, I agree one must always keep in mind if someone else is getting disturbed or not in the process of their own practises, but one can keep to himself right? I mean, if I were in UK, I wouldn't have to go church right? (I don't practise any religion) Or would they start making my life miserable if I didn't 'go with the flow'??


Quote:
I spent the formative stages of my existence in Britain, and in many ways, am a product of it. Then again, India bestowed upon me my genes and philosophical outlook on meta-matters, whilst Mauritius is where I first saw daylight and presently live.


This was a part of my response to oxymoron's earlier post. Nuance, my friend, nuance.
abcxyz
Posted: Tuesday, April 6, 2010 4:45:36 PM
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I fancy myself as non-patriotic.
To answer to your second question, yes, I believe your nationality is part of your identity, but you don't have to be proud or ashamed of it.
Do I wish I had lived elsewhere? I don't know yet. I haven't been to any other country.

I'm proud of all the achievements of my countrymen, all the struggle and bloodshed of the martyrs of this land, but I think it's a bit narrow-minded to hold one's countrymen above everyone and everything else. You can love your country and at the same time hate other countries, so what does that make you? A patriot, yet a bad person. The boundaries of nations really seem to divide people, like religion, blood relation etc. While it's completely ok to feel more affection for certain people whom you know, it is a bit irrational to root for a group of people only because you share the same land with them. Our world needs to be divided in countries for the same reason as why a country needs to be divided in states, but we as the people of the world don't need to be divided between ourselves. My tuppence worth.
kisholoy mukherjee
Posted: Tuesday, April 6, 2010 6:01:57 PM
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abcxyz wrote:
I fancy myself as non-patriotic.
To answer to your second question, yes, I believe your nationality is part of your identity, but you don't have to be proud or ashamed of it.
Do I wish I had lived elsewhere? I don't know yet. I haven't been to any other country.

I'm proud of all the achievements of my countrymen, all the struggle and bloodshed of the martyrs of this land, but I think it's a bit narrow-minded to hold one's countrymen above everyone and everything else. You can love your country and at the same time hate other countries, so what does that make you? A patriot, yet a bad person. The boundaries of nations really seem to divide people, like religion, blood relation etc. While it's completely ok to feel more affection for certain people whom you know, it is a bit irrational to root for a group of people only because you share the same land with them. Our world needs to be divided in countries for the same reason as why a country needs to be divided in states, but we as the people of the world don't need to be divided between ourselves. My tuppence worth.


Of course, ideally, what you said is true. Unfortunately, the present day world does not allow for such a mindset. If every other country is out there trying to get a piece of every remaining natural resource and others are clawing at your borders and still others are threatening you with war, you have no choice but to be 'patriotic'. Every country has to keep its own interests first, as the others are doing that too. Too bad Gandhiji isn't around.
oxymoron
Posted: Sunday, April 11, 2010 7:45:36 AM
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Tovarish wrote:
Oxy, has immigration helped or hindered your country?


It has done both I think Tov, to varying degrees. Complex, would need hours of discussion to do justice to the subject, but if I had to condense my feeling, we have limited space and evermore limited jobs and I wish for a world without any religion period.
HWNN1961
Posted: Sunday, April 11, 2010 12:25:05 PM
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Yes, but not blindly so. I want my country to live up to it's highest ideals. When it doesn't, I am critical.
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