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Do you feel patriotic about your country? Options
EM777
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 10:45:23 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/5/2010
Posts: 30
Neurons: 99
Location: United Kingdom
Are you proud of your country?

Does your country help give you a strong sense of identity when you are abroad in another?

Do you perhaps wish you lived elsewhere?


Its interesting to me to hear people talk both defensively and with derision about their nation.
And of course the latter can often be most understandable and complex, so - as with all things - its simply not possible to judge a persons opinion on the matter, of course.


I must admit to feeling somewhat of a stranger in my own country, and not actually very proud of its history or its elitist mentality of the past. Ashamed. But a stranger nonetheless. Even today in modern Britain - well. I am proud of our media, political system on the whole and many of the great personalities of modern UK culture.

I have always found the USA extraordinarily receptive and welcoming. And I have feelings of strong inexplicable connection with places like Mongolia, France and Tibet. Which I assume are evidence of happy past life memories.

I am afraid I feel a very strong aversion to certain places in Eastern Europe. Another past life indicator that was perhaps difficult, is my feeling on it. Nothing personal to Eastern Europeans, of course!

from.russia
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:07:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/2010
Posts: 44
Location: Russia, a big city ))
Hi, again, yes I do feel patriotic for my native country,
Russia, for we have had lots of good things, and the first,
or next to the fist cosmonaut was from our country, anyway...

Also, the fact that during the period of stalinism there were enough people
who fought against it makes me stronger now, at the severe time of
the world economic crisis.

I am not any Russian nationalist, but I am happy to pride myslef
on our rich history that should have greater future, in spite of our poor
performance in the latetst Oympic games, we are still Russia,
the country ready to go ahead to bring success not only for ourselves
but for other nations as well, and it schould not be any communism,
it sghould be succesful cooperative work in the process of mutual
economic and political development.

Hey, it si nothing but stupid to pretend one should be the only winner now

The best motto here should be the words, the immortal words of Slade:

WE MAY RIDE A STORMY WEATHER IF WE ALL GET OUT AND TRY,

thanx for asking,

from.russia ))

Discombobulated
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:21:12 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/2009
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Neurons: 975
Location: Scotland
EM777, I too am a citizen of the UK and I have to admit I do not feel proud of it. While the UK has provided us with a vast amount of freedom that other people could only dream of, lately, I feel as if our country is too focused upon pleasing others.
Susie
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:21:16 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/2010
Posts: 381
Neurons: 1,154
Location: United States
Patriotic, yes I do feel it. But... I think I sometimes confuse this with nationality. Since most Americans are from somewhere else, many feel a loyalty to their families' native country (be it Mexico, Poland, India, etc...)

I root for the Americans in the Olympics and am happy to claim myself an American, but I don't know how strong I'd still feel if I had been to other countries. I want to get a true feeling on how other countries take to American. There are plenty of things my country has done or is doing that make me feel ashamed and embarressed. But many of the people of my country make me proud to be a part of them.
Did I confuse you enough on my answer? SorryDrool Anxious
EM777
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:24:26 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/5/2010
Posts: 30
Neurons: 99
Location: United Kingdom
from.russia - See, I KNEW you were a great poster. Wasted on that other site! :O)

Very egalitarian, humanitarian and generous of spirit, the above. Quite an inspiration, your thoughts.

In fact, I very much envy your national pride.

Thank you!



And to Susie and Discombobulated! And not confusing, the answer, btw it is a very wide ranging issue, patriotism, and one can choose to take either a very personal view (as I have:) or a more global view as perhaps discombobulated has, ref. our international relations.
I can personally say that I am very proud of America, and I feel that your culture ranks amongst the greatest of the world, for sheer progressiveness of thinking. Let's say the wave towards enlightenment feels somehow to eminate very strongly, from there at this time.
HWNN1961
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:51:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/2010
Posts: 3,494
Neurons: 9,763
Yes, absolutely! I am proud and patriotic!

What confuses others is that I'm extremely critical and don't believe that blind loyalty is healthy for the citizen nor the country that he/she professes to love.

"My Country, right or wrong" is only right insofar as I would never abandon my allegienace to my country. But, when our leaders take what I consider to be the wrong, or an immoral course of action or stance, I am not shy about voicing my disagreement.

There's an old British song:

...Till we have built, Jerusalen, in England's green and pleasant land!"

This sums it up for me. Part of loving my native land is constantly striving to see it live up to it's ideals...

As Lincoln phrased it well: "The better angels of our nature".

If your country is marching off a cliff, blindly getting in step, rather than striving to change course, is not patriotism.

boneyfriend
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 12:41:27 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/3/2009
Posts: 2,625
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina, United States
This is such an interesting topic and has made me think. I know nothing but being an American. I have not traveled internationally. I am proud of my country's beginnings. Very proud. Currently I am not proud of the trouble we are going through to pass a new health care bill to move us toward the medical plans that most other modern countries have. I am not proud of so very much of our past.
Yes, I am proud of American ingenuity and American spirit. I always pull for the American team.
I just don't like the idea that some Americans have that we are better than others.
Ellenrita
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 2:37:01 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/20/2010
Posts: 1,348
Neurons: 3,889
Location: CANADA - Toronto
Yes, America has a lot of stuff! I do miss my younger days when standing up to sing before a baseball game would puff up my chest with pride. When the words "and our flag still stood..." would bring tears to my eyes. I miss being Patriotic but I am not anymore. I still root for the Chicago Cubs but that is about it. Sad.
from.russia
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 4:05:12 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/2010
Posts: 44
Location: Russia, a big city ))
Actually, the whole topic leads me pondering that
on a phylosophical basis there are two main nationalities of
good-doers and wrong-doers, but the Almighty has not made
it that much simple for us, black-and-white...

There're so many different mixtures of the both inbetween
these two poles.

That's why, in the long run, it turns out to be
just of little importance what nationality one
belongs to if one is a good-doer; and it's
only human psychology that we tend to lable
wrong-doers and mark their nationalities, while it's also the same
like with good doers.

Develop yourself, make yourself perfect, only be sure
to choose correct direction for your self-development.

For me it is still that of creation of something useful and
encouraging, for others it is on the contrary.

What staircase to climb? That's the question, important not only
for the young...

from.russia ))



HWNN1961
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:28:21 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/2010
Posts: 3,494
Neurons: 9,763
By the way: from.russia:

Welcome to our merry band!

The deck is stacked heavily here with yanks, there are Brits, Aussies, a sprinkling of Canadians, folks from India and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Malaysia. The greater the diversity, the better our chances of learning, which is why we are here in the first place.

Is it spring where you are yet? If not, are there at least hints?

I could ask you lots of questions. Are you old enough to recall the former Soviet Union, and do you miss it? How are things there?

Well, I won't crowd you with questions, but welcome.

Oh,

and be sure to brake for ducks!
amedtychick
Posted: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:00:32 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 11/2/2009
Posts: 26
Neurons: 84
Yes.
dingdong
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:18:17 AM
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Joined: 2/7/2010
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Location: Philippines
EM777 and discombobulated, I am English too, currently teaching in China. I can assure you that 1.4 billion people (except those few that have visited) still think we're all gentlemen - and All Frenchmen are romantic. How quaint. Sadly, so sadly, I stopped being proud about 30 years ago.
SpicyPepper
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:20:48 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/20/2010
Posts: 17
Neurons: 40
Location: India
I feel more patriotic when I am away from my country. I miss the livelines, the unity, the diversity, the cuisine.
oxymoron
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:18:40 AM
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Joined: 2/15/2010
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Location: Bungalow, usually in garden/greenhouse
England and it's sycophantic politicians, lords and knights make me want to vomit all over them and then apply a Soweto necklace to those who voted for illegal war, vermin. Patriotism; at what cost to ones own integrity? Haven't been proud of our shitty little island for some considerable time.
from.russia
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:01:38 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/2010
Posts: 44
Location: Russia, a big city ))
HWNN1961 wrote:
By the way: from.russia:

Welcome to our merry band!

The deck is stacked heavily here with yanks, there are Brits, Aussies, a sprinkling of Canadians, folks from India and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Malaysia. The greater the diversity, the better our chances of learning, which is why we are here in the first place.

Is it spring where you are yet? If not, are there at least hints?

I could ask you lots of questions. Are you old enough to recall the former Soviet Union, and do you miss it? How are things there?

Well, I won't crowd you with questions, but welcome.

Oh,

and be sure to brake for ducks!



Hi, thank you very much for your warm greeting that I accept
with the equal sympathy they were written by you on this forum.

Yes, you're free to ask me questions about Russia and
its history (I'm 37, I was born in the flourishing of the soviet times).

2010 - International Year for the Rapprochement of Cultures,
actually, time to feel the values of the multinational world.

Yeah, I'm from Saint-Petersburg, North-West Russia,
it's coming spring here ))

Have a nice time,

from.russia ))
Luftmarque
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 12:43:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/2009
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Location: Pau, Aquitaine, France
I forget who said it, but, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" expresses my feelings on the subject pretty well. It's a quasi-religious feeling that the species would do well to do without.
oxymoron
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:06:02 PM
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Joined: 2/15/2010
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Location: Bungalow, usually in garden/greenhouse
[quote=Luftmarque]I forget who said it, but, "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" expresses my feelings on the subject pretty well. It's a quasi-religious feeling that the species would do well to do without.[/quote

Twas Oscar Wilde methinks: quoted this just the other day.
Cass
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 1:13:03 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/2009
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Location: United States
That would be Samuel Johnson, Mark.
I am amazed at the feelings the UK members are expressing here. I have dual citizenship in the UK and the US; I left the UK for good in the 60's and at that time I was very proud of my country. We were entering the Common Market as it was then called and most people were against it. There was no referendum so we had no choice in the matter. Little by little what made us British was taken away. Farmers and shop keepers had new rules to obey, rules they were unable to protest against. I can remember a time when one was proud to be British which I'm beginning to think has been steadily eroding since the EU came into being. No one under age 40 now will know what I am talking about, of course. I'm sorry you all feel that way - for once I am glad I am old enough to remember when times were better. St. George is spinning in his grave.
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:49:58 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
Posts: 11,101
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
I am very proud of Australia.
And No, I do not wish to live any where else.
When I look at other countries through out the world with identity issues, the only contradiction we have is with city/country.
oxymoron
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:38:11 PM
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Cass, thank you for Samuel Johnson fact, I'd been under the misapprehension it was a Wildeism.

To be honest Cass I think most people here are sick of having no democracy what so ever; and I'm sure feel sidelined about any decision concerning the country as a whole. These bastards (MP's)plead for us to vote for them and then forget completely that they serve us; this in my opinion is the fundamental reason for the breakdown of society in the so called united kingdom, there I am so disaffected that I can't be arsed to give my country capital letters any more. Tovarish: Oz is a great place to live, just wish your government had allowed me to live there when I applied back in the late 80's.
Tovarish
Posted: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:46:44 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/2/2009
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Try again Oxy, Australia is a wonderful place to live.
SpicyPepper
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:53:39 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 3/20/2010
Posts: 17
Neurons: 40
Location: India
Patriotism is like a needle that joins and unites and not a scissor that cuts and divides. Agree?
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:30:27 AM
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Joined: 9/2/2009
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
I do,SpicyPepper, and most profound.
Sandeep_78
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:45:36 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/23/2010
Posts: 3
Neurons: 9
Location: India
Hi,

Feeling patriotic and being patriotic are two different things. Feeling patriotic is not a great thing. Behind close walls anyone can boast of being patriotic. On the contrary, being patriotic you can make difference to your nation as well as to yourself. Patriotism should ascend from our home to our nation through our area, city, district and state.

I feel patriotism should percolate up on global basis where there should be healthy competition among all nations for sharing noble ideas. For making our country great, people should hold pen/pencil/paper instead of guns and swords.

And always feel proud for environment you have got as we are living better life than billions of creatures across the globe

I feel patriotic about my nation, but I am not patriotic till date. Unless I don’t add economical / social / technical / functional values to my nation and don’t spread my ideas for betterment of other nations, there is no sense in calling myself patriotic.

Regards,
Sandeep
Sandeep_78
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:50:37 AM
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Location: India
Spicypaper,

I agree with you

Sandeep
man in black
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:16:19 AM
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Location: Cuba
Patriotism is the love and devotion to one's country, Now I love my country and its people but I don't the government that has been ruling it for half a century. And that government have been so averse to change and improvement that I'm beginning to consider seriously the issue of leaving it for good, though I know that no matter where I am I'll always be proud of being a Cuban and defending my roots, not the idiology of some politicians. Politics always sucks. Patriotism like culture and religion all should be separate from politics for when they merge they cease to be original and eventually true.
oxymoron
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:24:12 PM
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Tovarish wrote:
Try again Oxy, Australia is a wonderful place to live.


I am officially too old to apply again Tov. Wish I'd been a ten pound pom.
kisholoy mukherjee
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:05:47 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/2009
Posts: 3,729
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Location: here and there
I do feel patriotic about my country. And I do not agree that having a patriotic feeling is worthless. If it is only superficial and one doesn't mean it, then it is a different thing. But feeling patriotic truly from within your heart is something quite good. The obvious question is; when do you know that you really are patriotic?? I do not know of any method to know that for sure. But I can say one thing; feeling patriotic doesn't necessarily mean that you will be ready to be a martyr for the cause of your nation. But when your nation really needs you, you must be willing to give some service or assistance. Not everyone is equally gritty or strong.
In this regard, I have two questions to ask:
1. This one to all those who are patriotic about their country; if your country goes to war, and you know that it is not for a noble cause, will you support your nation even then? Or may be you do not know for sure whether your nation is going to war for the right reasons. Would you wait to find out the truth first or would you jump in support of your nation, regardless?

2. This one for all expats (like Isaac Samuel): Say you are an expat of your country A. You are now a citizen for some years of a nation B. A and B are at war. On whose side will you be???
And this question also goes out to them who are basically from A (their origins) but were born in B or in fact for some generations their families have been in B.
Please answer my queries. I am really interested to know.
Tovarish
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:14:51 PM
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
I have two Ten Pound Poms who are very dear friends.
Iam proud to say that in 2009, they both received The Order of Australia Medal.
For their charity work in the community.
I said in my letter to the Governor, we (Australia) got value for money with these two incredible people.
NinjaMonkee
Posted: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:50:50 PM
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Joined: 7/17/2009
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Location: CA. USA
no
peterhewett
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:12:15 AM
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Location: In my head
No I don't have feelings of patriotism or pride for my country neither do I feel distain for it.
It is a beautiful island. It is the place of my roots. I traced my family back to 1709 and then found a link which took me back to 1432… but there is a question mark over that link which needs further research.

My writing and poetry are inspired by the English countryside. Yes I love my country but not to the point that I would elevate it above another’s or go to war for it.

I think that Patriotism and Nationalism are lowest common denominators and are used by those with power and influence to control the mass of the people, often for dubious reasons.

Here is a poem I wrote when I felt homesick.


YEARNING
by Peter Hewett
Written when feeling homesick while on
a coach journey from Mumbai to Pune.2003


Oh for a frosty English morn with the aged grass bent low beneath
For a bright clear sunlit dawn with the shadows wide and drawn.
Oh for the echoing call of a shouting pheasant sounding o’er the vale
For the Linnet Robin and soaring Lark and the peace of an English park.

Oh for the breath of a scent filled spring with the blossoms rich and full
And for the smell of new mown hay on a balmy evening, at the close of day.
Oh for my home, my land of birth with the soils so rich and good
And for the Ford the country fare the comradeship and the care.

Oh for meadow field and lea with heads of corn in windswept sway
For the plough’ed furrow straight and true and growth fresh and new.
Oh for the welcome of a wood log fire with dancing flames to ignite my dreams
For succulent sirloin Sunday roast and butter and eggs with marmalade and toast.

Oh for my green and verdant land with weeping willow and majestic oak
For the sound of a crowing cock and the ticking of an old grandfather clock.
Oh for a pint in an English pub with crisps and peanuts in a bowl to hand
Oh for the sound of leather on bat and the gentle purring of a contented cat


NB. Mark that was Samuel Johnson. Interestingly he was not against patriotism per se. He once defined a patriot as "One whose ruling passion is the love of his country."
vr091073
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:55:51 AM
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My own twopence on the issue - I believe that Luftmarque's and peterhewett's responses come the closest to my personal view on patriotism; in essence, yes, I do love my native land, respect it, and add my little mite towards preserving it whenever possible. That said, the citizen of Mother Earth in me will never, ever come down to beating his breast just because of some excessive identification with the place or country of birth, stemming more from an extended feeling of self-centredness than anything else.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:31:58 AM
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Location: Booligal, New South Wales, Australia
Peter I realise there are many cases where Patriotism and Nationalism have been used to incite countries, as per Nazi Germany.

But I find it hard to identify with these comments when I am proud of Australia and our people,and I certainly dont feel I am the lowest common demoninator, by being patroitic.
peterhewett
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:27:03 AM
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Tovarish said

Peter I realise there are many cases where Patriotism and Nationalism have been used to incite countries, as per Nazi Germany.

But I find it hard to identify with these comments when I am proud of Australia and our people,and I certainly dont feel I am the lowest common demoninator, by being patroitic.

Peter replied.

I guess a lot depends on ones motivation. There is a form of patriotism that is defined as love of ones country but that does not have to go as far as 'my country right or wrong' does it? To support ones country regardless of the rights or wrongs of a particular cause is mental blindness, and illogical. Surely patriotism taken to that length is the lowest common denominator since it has no regard for the cause of ones fellow humans across the way who happen to be from a different country.

I love my country, but in all honestly cannot say that feelings of pride rise up in my breast. Not all pride is good is it ?

I am not sure being proud of ones country is such a good thing.

I am English but it is not what defines me. I am part of a world family on a shrinking globe that is divided by national borders behind which are large armies and weaponry to defend the 'national interest.' People kill in the 'national interest' out of patriotism.

Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:40:19 AM

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Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
I'm proud to be a Finn. I'm proud of this little nation's achievements and strength to maintain our language and culture through our history between strong and powerful neighbours.

Yet I don't think my country is better than any other. Some things are better here, some over there.
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