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Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain. Options
Daemon
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain.

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)
Verbatim
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 1:18:35 AM
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Daemon wrote:
Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain.

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)


Sounds so pretty, but...

For the first part, tell that to the unlearned who in their ignorance want liberty NOW. For the second part, learning is never in vain, with or without liberty.

How it was said: ""President Kennedy at Vanderbilt in May of 1963: "Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain. Any educated citizen who seeks to subvert the law, to suppress freedom, or to subject other human beings to acts that are less than human, degrades his heritage, ignores his learning and betrays his obligations."" Courtesy of: http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/John_F__Kennedy_Education.htm Emphasis is mine.

Why does the underlined part, sadly, conjure up actual events?


unfeigned
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 1:42:20 AM

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Daemon wrote:
Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain.

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)

learning without care is waste of time
Bully_rus
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:42:51 AM
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Laziness is the first and foremost proof that liberty exists…
rd387
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:32:51 AM

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learning is never in vain. Most advancements in learning and understanding happened in history when liberty was in peril.
NeuroticHellFem
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 5:26:00 AM

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Good point above, rd387.
Learning without liberty is difficult, but it can lead to liberty.
monamagda
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 5:48:00 AM

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Liberty without learning is always in peril - CONTEXT

President Kennedy at Vanderbilt in May of 1963:

"Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain. Any educated citizen who seeks to subvert the law, to suppress freedom, or to subject other human beings to acts that are less than human, degrades his heritage, ignores his learning and betrays his obligations."

An estimated one-third of all principal Kennedy programs made some form of education a central element, and the Office of Education called it the most significant legislative period in its hundred-year history. Nevertheless his bill for general aid to elementary and secondary education failed, unable to survive a harsh combination of controversies of which religion was only the most conspicuous.

Source: "Kennedy" by Ted Sorensen, p. 492 , Jan 1, 1965
sandeep patra
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 8:01:52 AM

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Liberty and learning needs to be manipulated in such a way that it's end result would be always productive....
Ozolinsh V.
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 8:29:04 AM

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Cannot agree more, Kennedy is undoubtedly the greatest man who ever lived.
Beam
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:10:49 AM

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Daemon wrote:
Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain.

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)



Well, although I would hesitate to call him the greatest man who ever lived, Kennedy is worthy of our admiration. And he certainly was a great, inspirational speaker with excellent quotes.

This particular quote may be a paraphrasing of one by Confucius: "To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous."

The most effective learning occurs when people have the freedom to think. But it's essential to learn when we have the freedom to do so.
Mayra isabel
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:12:21 AM
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If learning is biased, the consequences can be perilous and do not actually lead to freedom.
Also, it seems be very convenient for some "to subject other human beings to acts that are less than human" in order to obtain some kind of freedom.
ddaniel
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 11:01:20 AM

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I never understood that statement. Perhaps it was the cold war that framed it, but learning without liberty is one of the key ingredients to getting the freedom to learn.
Ron165
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 11:39:00 AM

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I agree with RD387, learning is never in vain. I think Kennedy should have changed the last two words "in vain" to "in peril" as in the first part of the sentence. I do believe that liberty fosters learning, perhaps that is what Pres. Kennedy meant. Also what value is learning without dissemination of it? I suggest very little. For example, if Einstein never disclosed his theory of relativity or J. Salk kept the polio vaccine a secret in his lab, the benefit to humanity would be essentially nonexistent.

BTW, John Kennedy was NOT the youngest President. Theodore Roosevelt at 42 was. Admittedly a small point, but I couldn't help it. Please indulge me.
striker
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 1:13:23 PM
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how would have been without his assassination
Pieter_Hove
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 1:25:40 PM

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Hey, that is some quote.
Fredric-frank Myers
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 1:49:41 PM

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This was my first Presidential election, as a young sailor stationed in Florida. I voted and was a minor activist in the election, because of what I believe I saw in Kennedy, and what I also saw in Nixon, corruption and evil. "Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain." John F. Kennedy.
Ron165
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:40:07 PM

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It always amazes me that so many people buy into the legacy that Kennedy was such a great, even greatest, man. Kennedy was young, handsome, cultured and had a beautiful wife. He had an undeniable charisma for many [myself included as a young boy] and add to that that he was murdered at a young age while in office, has set the stage for an excessively high assessment.

Forgotten is the fact that he campaigned on the "missile gap" which he knew was false. He proposed making thousands of ICBMs to close this gap when America had something like a 10 times advantage at the time over the USSR. The lead to the nuclear arms race with each side eventually having huge stockpiles of nuclear weapons which today decades later the world is still trying to reduce. A threat to humanity which we still live with and may still result in untold loss live and destruction. In the Bay of Pigs he refused to employ air power and the invasion was a disaster. The idea that somehow by not committing air power and rubbing off serial numbers on rifles would enable America to "sell" the idea America was not involved is absurd. This perceived weakness lead to the Cuban Missile Crises which brought the world within a hair's width of nuclear war. He send several thousand military "advisers" to Vietnam. How many times throughout history has sending "military advisers" resulted in getting involved in a war? There is substantial evidence that his narrow election victory would have been a loss except for voter fraud in Illinois. So while he had some great goals [tax reform for one, education, improved race relations]he had some notable failures/mistakes.

Sorry if I burst anyone's bubble.
andrinomarkus
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 4:39:00 PM

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Nowadays schools provides this kind of education. Learning withour liberty.
TB Turtle
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 7:18:52 PM

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I think Ron 165 has a lot to say and I like his approach. He covers both positive and negative with documented, historical fact. How refreshing! I smell a polly history buff. Hope to hear more of his perspective.
Verbatim
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 7:31:25 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Liberty without learning is always in peril; and learning without liberty is always in vain.

John F. Kennedy (1917-1963)


Kennedy refers to learning not as an activity or process, but as an accomplished result--the knowledge, understanding and quality gained from learning.

One must have learning to treasure and protect liberty. Being accomplished with learning but lacking liberty, or not regarding it highly, is in vain.

What follows after the quotation is essential for understanding it, it's all there, underlined in the context.
Milica Boghunovich
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 9:39:13 PM
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Ron165 wrote:
It always amazes me that so many people buy into the legacy that Kennedy was such a great, even greatest, man. Kennedy was young, handsome, cultured and had a beautiful wife. He had an undeniable charisma for many [myself included as a young boy] and add to that that he was murdered at a young age while in office, has set the stage for an excessively high assessment.

Forgotten is the fact that he campaigned on the "missile gap" which he knew was false. He proposed making thousands of ICBMs to close this gap when America had something like a 10 times advantage at the time over the USSR. The lead to the nuclear arms race with each side eventually having huge stockpiles of nuclear weapons which today decades later the world is still trying to reduce. A threat to humanity which we still live with and may still result in untold loss live and destruction. In the Bay of Pigs he refused to employ air power and the invasion was a disaster. The idea that somehow by not committing air power and rubbing off serial numbers on rifles would enable America to "sell" the idea America was not involved is absurd. This perceived weakness lead to the Cuban Missile Crises which brought the world within a hair's width of nuclear war. He send several thousand military "advisers" to Vietnam. How many times throughout history has sending "military advisers" resulted in getting involved in a war? There is substantial evidence that his narrow election victory would have been a loss except for voter fraud in Illinois. So while he had some great goals [tax reform for one, education, improved race relations]he had some notable failures/mistakes.

Sorry if I burst anyone's bubble.


Applause Seeing that people actually use their critical thinking skills is awesome! Many have been taught to fear and revere authorities... Just as Plato predicted zillions of people throughout history have preferred to be cave dwellers...
FounDit
Posted: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:30:11 PM

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An educated population is difficult to enslave, but an ignorant population will find it difficult to ever be free.
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