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Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power. Options
Daemon
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
Kusahara
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:18:33 AM

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Well, so i have to make good use of this power, at least to make me happy.
Rudra Saikat
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:44:44 AM

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COGITO ERGO SUM. I THINK, THEREFORE I AM. Unless I can think and introspect, my very existence amounts to nothing, and is nullified.
Jennyetaks
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 12:55:09 AM

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For that reason a lot of people have wars in their minds and it makes them crazy hahaha!
( I'm learning english sorry for the grammar if it is wrong) :)
MechPebbles
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 1:37:56 AM

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Location: Kuala Lumpur, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Very true.
excaelis
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 2:33:06 AM

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O'Brien disagrees, Winston. Room 101...
PuddingRRanger
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 2:35:21 AM

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Buddhism's teaching is... we have no control over things, even our own thought.d'oh!
Bully_rus
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 3:39:25 AM
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Location: Minsk, Minskaya Voblasts', Belarus
Daemon wrote:
Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)


We cannot control the process. We cannot control the result. We cannot control the fate of that result. What's remained of that power at last? Wishful thinking and hope...
Omkar
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 3:39:59 AM

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Perfect.Applause Thoughts are the blueprints which are eventually translated into our reality and the world around us. To master thoughts/thinking is to master the self and achieve anything the mind can think of. As the saying goes, "No man is free who is not master of himself." Shame on you
Laurie Cameron
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 3:43:55 AM

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Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Very true.
Yet we try to control so much of what goes on around us - all in vain of course.
pedro
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:25:33 AM
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Transcendental meditation is one approach to controlling the cacophony of background noise in our heads. To that you might add all the self-motivational schemes that businessmen use to try and reshape their thoughts. I'm not sure that any of them work that well, nor that we are as in control of our thoughts as we would like to think. I'll defer to Schopenhauer on this one.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:38:19 AM
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If what Descartes proposes is absolutely true then "absolute" might be a state, or property of mind that cannot be fully understood.
NNK
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:27:12 AM
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But hasn't advertising succeeded in taking control of our thoughts?
If so, then absolutely nothing remains in our power!
Scary?
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:38:16 AM
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Rubbith! Sip, sip, gulp, pour, splash gulp. Hic! I will now exercise my power to go to Tesco’s and but two litres of gin… bugger the tonic. I am unaminous... unnan....u... bugger. I am absolutely going to do this. Heh, heh, heh. And then I will exercise my power and do it again next week.... did I think that?
Elorac
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:18:52 AM
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All that money wasted on therapy....They're not 'voices' at all. Brick wall
Lestibournes
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:31:20 AM

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Not even them, really.
DOUGLAS CAMPOS
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:59:19 AM

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We are what we think!
Gary98
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 9:35:33 AM

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Daemon wrote:
Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)


We can only be in control of our own thoughts if we are smart about it, if we really think.
monamagda
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:26:05 AM

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The quote in context:

From Descartes' "Discourse on Method" - Part III (The Discourse on Method was originally published along with the Dioptrics, the Meteorics, and the Geometry - Holland; to which country he withdrew in 1629)

My third maxim was to endeavour always to conquer myself rather than fortune, and change my desires rather than the order of the world, and in general, accustom myself to the persuasion that, except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power; so that when we have done our best in respect of things external to us, all wherein we fail of success is to be held, as regards us, absolutely impossible:.......

....But I confess there is need of prolonged discipline and frequently repeated meditation to accustom the mind to view all objects in this light; and I believe that in this chiefly consisted the secret of the power of such philosophers as in former times were enabled to rise superior to the influence of fortune, and amid suffering and poverty, enjoy a happiness which their gods might have envied. For, occupied incessantly with the consideration of the limits prescribed to their power by nature, they became so entirely convinced that nothing was at their disposal except their own thoughts, that this conviction was of itself sufficient to prevent their entertaining any desire of other objects; and over their thoughts they acquired a sway so absolute, that they had some ground on this account for esteeming themselves more rich and more powerful, more free and more happy, than other men who, whatever be the favours heaped on them by nature and fortune, if destitute of this philosophy, can never command the realization of all their desires.


Read the book on line:


http://www.bartleby.com/34/1/3.html#txt1
Milica Boghunovich
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:34:55 AM
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jennysk wrote:
For that reason a lot of people have wars in their minds and it makes them crazy hahaha!
( I'm learning english sorry for the grammar if it is wrong) :)


Great Jenny! English does not matter! What matters is the Truth that some threatening, bullying people would like to kill.
Milica Boghunovich
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:40:41 AM
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Joined: 8/5/2014
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"Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power." Descartes

Descartes disregarded that we are not absolutely in power of our thoughts because those very thoughts can control us and have power over us. Descartes did not know it all. None of us does. So take it easy!
Gil de Leon
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 11:22:27 AM

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Thank you, monamagda, for the useful link.
Pieter_Hove
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 1:53:21 PM

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Daemon wrote:
Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)


And even then, our thoughts ought not to be fundamental. Powerful, but not fundamental.
The Dementor
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:58:53 PM

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Location: Naperville, Illinois, United States
pratt wrote:
Buddhism's teaching is... we have no control over things, even our own thought.d'oh!

somewhat/totally contradicting...
(although, i have to admit- i don't even control my own thoughts.)
For those in school, teachers always say that you're in control of your grades. ahem.
Dosei Iantha Evans
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 7:10:47 PM

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Iantha wrote:
pratt wrote:
Buddhism's teaching is... we have no control over things, even our own thought.d'oh!

somewhat/totally contradicting...
(although, i have to admit- i don't even control my own thoughts.)
For those in school, teachers always say that you're in control of your grades. ahem.

I shall quote this, monsieur Descartes, et tell ma profs.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Thursday, October 2, 2014 8:33:00 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)


Edward Bernays, Bertrand Russell, Aldous Huxley, and Zbigniew Brzezinski disagree...

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

“Universal literacy was supposed to educate the common man to control his environment. Once he could read and write he would have a mind fit to rule. So ran the democratic doctrine. But instead of a mind, universal literacy has given him rubber stamps, rubber stamps inked with advertising slogans, with editorials, with published scientific data, with the trivialities of the tabloids and the platitudes of history, but quite innocent of original thought. Each man's rubber stamps are the duplicates of millions of others, so that when those millions are exposed to the same stimuli, all receive identical imprints. It may seem an exaggeration to say that the American public gets most of its ideas in this wholesale fashion. The mechanism by which ideas are disseminated on a large scale is propaganda, in the broad sense of an organized effort to spread a particular belief or doctrine.”
― Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda

"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology. ... It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda ... Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class (Elite). The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated."
- Bertrand Russell, philosopher, educator and atheist

"Gradually, by selective breeding, the congenital differences between rulers and ruled will increase until they become almost different species. A revolt of the plebs would become as unthinkable as an organized insurrection of sheep against the practice of eating mutton."
- Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society (1953) pgs. 49-50

“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution”
― Aldous Huxley

“In the technotronic society the trend would seem to be towards the aggregation of the individual support of millions of uncoordinated citizens, easily within the reach of magnetic and attractive personalities exploiting the latest communications techniques to manipulate emotions and control reason.”
― Zbigniew Brzezinski, Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era

Direct observation informs me that Decartes was an optimist.

The Debt Money Monopoly literally OWN the political thought and political system in every country where they create and issue money based on their self-interest. That means they also own the government and use it to achieve their undeclared goals at the expense of everyone else. Even so, a revolt of the plebs is pretty much unthinkable until all their little goodies are taken away by their Debt Money Masters. However, dollars to donuts, the plebs will exercise their anger against the wrong target with 99.9% of the time.

Verbatim
Posted: Friday, October 3, 2014 12:21:14 AM
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Daemon wrote:
Except our own thoughts, there is nothing absolutely in our power.

Rene Descartes (1596-1650)


Nothing absolutely in our power?

"What to do, where to go? Do nothing, go nowhere." Emile Cioran, (absolutely sure, I think)
progpen
Posted: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 6:08:03 PM

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Our thoughts are under attack every day from outside forces. These attacks come from TV, radio and the Internet and are after nothing less than the control of our thoughts, even for a very short time. They want to make us insecure, jealous, angry, frightened or greedy and come from businesses, politicians and special interests, all who want something from us.
excaelis
Posted: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 10:28:39 PM

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Oh, Triv-D, plus ca change.

I would like to take this opportunity to publicly apologise to you for my post on the Francis Bacon thread. I totally lost my shit, and I apologise for the intemperate - nay, utterly rude - comments that I directed at you. I'd thought of dealing with this in a p.m., but I felt that would be a chickenshit move. Mea culpa. I'm sorry for what I wrote.
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