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Marxism Options
nima_persian
Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:46:26 AM
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In Marxism the concept of class struggle plays a central role in understanding society's inevitable development from bourgeois oppression under capitalism to a socialist and ultimately classless society .


I can understand the bold part well.



In addition, would you give me an example about such a sentence?


Thanks in advance
towan52
Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:13:39 AM
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Greenland? Whistle
TheParser
Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:34:45 AM
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nima_persian wrote:



I can understand the bold part well.






Did you wish to say "can't understand"?

IF you did, someone versed in economic theories should be answering you very shortly.

To me, that sentence simply means something like:

"The big companies that run the economy in a capitalistic society treat the ordinary people very badly.

Thus, it is 100% certain that capitalism will slowly but surely change to a socialist society where there are no

rich or poor people."

*****

At the present time, I cannot think of a single "socialist and classless society" in the world.
nima_persian
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2014 1:46:03 AM
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I am so sorry. Yes. Thanks. I made a typo.

I ca not understand.

excaelis
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:15:29 PM

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Not one that works...
thar
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:08:49 PM

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I actually quite like the idea of Marxism - except that in practice, its core concept seems to be telling you who to hate!
Apart from making people do evil things, that has a definite drawback that when you actually achieve power, you eventually run out of other people to blame. So you have to invent more and more ridiculous reasons to hate people. Sad.
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:21:02 PM

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The theory is that you originally have 1% 'rich' and 90% 'poor' (and a few in the middle).

Marxism works perfectly while the revolution is happening.

The 1% are all killed off, the middle guys lose all their belongings (we shan't mention that millions of the poor are killed as well) - leaving 100% poor - a perfect classless society!

However, once this is done, and the revolution is over, it fails. The greedy and power-hungry come to the top and start oppressing again. They become the 1%.

It's all described well in "Animal Farm" by Orwell.
Ni un voto al PRIAN PVEM
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2014 9:28:18 PM

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"Drag0nspeaker" wrote:
The 1% are all killed off, - leaving 100% poor - a perfect classless society!

There's no need to kill anyone. Expropriate and leave the rich alive

"Drag0nspeaker" wrote:
the middle guys lose all their belongings (we shan't mention that millions of the poor are killed as well)

Why should the middle class lose all their belongings?
Why should poor people be killed?

"Drag0nspeaker" wrote:
the The greedy and power-hungry come to the top and start oppressing again. They become the 1%

We have to find a way so the rich and the greedy don't reach powerful positions and don't start oppressing again. No need to kill anyone

"Drag0nspeaker" wrote:
It's all described well in "Animal Farm" by Orwell.

Overrated Capitalist propaganda. It describes a way things may end for socialism, the worst he could imagine. But by no means an unavoidable destiny
If you want a real Big Brother, you have the NSA spying on your computers right now
If you want Newspeak watch how Conservative media talk about Putin for 298 passengers and how talks about Nutanyahoo for 700 casualties


Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2014 11:56:40 PM

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Hi!

I am simply looking at the examples of the USSR and China - that is exactly what happened in their revolutions - millions were killed, greedy and power-hungry came to the top and started oppressing again. It is what happens.

The book you are talking about is "1984", which is showing a possible world under Fascism - it does not mention Socialism at all.

I was talking about "Animal Farm".
The author was a staunch socialist, and fought in the Spanish Civil war as a volunteer, from the Lenin Barracks in Barcelona, against the Fascists. - his books are NOT "Capitalist propaganda".
Ni un voto al PRIAN PVEM
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2014 12:54:42 AM

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Drag0nspeaker wrote:
Hi!

I am simply looking at the examples of the USSR and China - that is exactly what happened in their revolutions - millions were killed, greedy and power-hungry came to the top and started oppressing again. It is what happens.


That's Capitalist version of history. That's what they make all of us to believe
It's said Mao was to blame for the famine, but little or no mention of cyclic famines in China.
Everyone speaks of Stalin purges, almost no mention to the White movement and those who financed it.

Drag0nspeaker wrote:

The book you are talking about is "1984", which is showing a possible world under Fascism - it does not mention Socialism at all.

I was talking about "Animal Farm".
The author was a staunch socialist, and fought in the Spanish Civil war as a volunteer, from the Lenin Barracks in Barcelona, against the Fascists. - his books are NOT "Capitalist propaganda".

I thought It won't do any harm to mix them up anyway both of them are propaganda.
Nineteen Eighty-Four of course relates to socialism, the INGSOC stands for English socialism
The Cold war started way before WWII and it didn't end after the fall of the Berlin wall.

More on this here
http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/orwell.html



Spiral
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2014 6:17:43 PM

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nima_persian wrote:
In Marxism the concept of class struggle plays a central role in understanding society's inevitable development from bourgeois oppression under capitalism to a socialist and ultimately classless society .

Hi nima,

Marxism is rampant among atheistic academia and has its roots in Humanism as taught and practiced by Ancient Greece, hence the association with the following word:

di·a·lec·tic (d-lktk)
n.
1. The art or practice of arriving at the truth by the exchange of logical arguments.

2.
a. The process especially associated with Hegel of arriving at the truth by stating a thesis, developing a contradictory antithesis, and combining and resolving them into a coherent synthesis.

b. Hegel's critical method for the investigation of this process.

3.
a. The Marxian process of change through the conflict of opposing forces, whereby a given contradiction is characterized by a primary and a secondary aspect, the secondary succumbing to the primary, which is then transformed into an aspect of a new contradiction. Often used in the plural with a singular or plural verb.

b. The Marxian critique of this process.

4. dialectics (used with a sing. verb) A method of argument or exposition that systematically weighs contradictory facts or ideas with a view to the resolution of their real or apparent contradictions.

5. The contradiction between two conflicting forces viewed as the determining factor in their continuing interaction.



[Middle English dialetik, from Old French dialetique, from Latin dialectica, logic, from Greek dialektik (tekhn), (art) of debate, feminine of dialektikos, from dialektos, speech, conversation; see dialect.]



dia·lecti·cal, dia·lectic adj.

dia·lecti·cal·ly adv.


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


zielonosiwy
Posted: Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:13:13 PM
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@Ni un voto al PRIAN PVEM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
Oh yes, but I forgot, it's all capitalist lies, and my uncle who was murdered in Katyń is also a "fake".
If you are speaking in favour of communism, trying to whiten Mao and Stalin, you're really sick or blind or brainwashed. Read some books, son
Amen
Posted: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:49:20 AM

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In the overall, Marx indeed denounces the struggle of classes and tries to find remedies to that social problem of injustice. His essay, mainly, is also an emphatic writing about the strained master-salve relation that the ruling classes are having with the ruled ones. But that is the basic idea that makes part of the core of the communist thought and that is, moreover, what arose during an epoch that was still having serfdom as naturally unquestioned, and also, yet, as a feature of the social organization.
What must not be confused with, nevertheless, is how these heavenly ideas of philosophy fell unavoidably into the hands of the praying wolves of the historical enfolding, which turned them, against the will of those who wanted to bring good with these to their own society, into a hell. And, it is noticeable, still, that how discrediting them was achieved by the carrying out of a reckless and careless progressive elimination of a truly serious and widespread disorderliness, nonetheless. Certain events, undoubtedly, made a very bad advertisement to the noble idea of communism that philosophy propounds through its texts. However, the gap between these and how they had been brought shape, effectively, into given societies, was wide in several parts of the whole picture; that because of a vicious circle of ignorantness and a lethal scarcity for which communism, still, paradoxically to such respect, remained the best mean fitted to deal with. Communism has the advantage, nevertheless, to preserve the sovereignty of people and their dignity and prohibits to a blind tyranny of the “rich empty barrels” their foul right to meddle that always bring in grave and tragic troubles; that which the west calls “human rights”, so as to cynically and revengefully with condescendence qualify a decadent Satanism practiced abroad.
Confusions made between the bright ideas and how their fate was brought to a regrettable expression is important to be taken into consideration in that same sensitive historical case which now is justifying an utter violence. A revengeful western world led and influenced by authentic Nazis who belong to a horrible american undeclared british and french racist tradition is currently worshiping and praising the vice of Satan (france 666) against god openly now that the way is cleared for it; amazingly, indeed.
Dreamy
Posted: Thursday, August 7, 2014 6:07:17 PM

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Amen wrote:
In the overall, Marx indeed denounces the struggle of classes and tries to find remedies to that social problem of injustice. His essay, mainly, is also an emphatic writing about the strained master-salve relation that the ruling classes are having with the ruled ones. But that is the basic idea that makes part of the core of the communist thought and that is, moreover, what arose during an epoch that was still having serfdom as naturally unquestioned, and also, yet, as a feature of the social organization.
What must not be confused with, nevertheless, is how these heavenly ideas of philosophy fell unavoidably into the hands of the praying wolves of the historical enfolding, which turned them, against the will of those who wanted to bring good with these to their own society, into a hell. And, it is noticeable, still, that how discrediting them was achieved by the carrying out of a reckless and careless progressive elimination of a truly serious and widespread disorderliness, nonetheless. Certain events, undoubtedly, made a very bad advertisement to the noble idea of communism that philosophy propounds through its texts. However, the gap between these and how they had been brought shape, effectively, into given societies, was wide in several parts of the whole picture; that because of a vicious circle of ignorantness and a lethal scarcity for which communism, still, paradoxically to such respect, remained the best mean fitted to deal with. Communism has the advantage, nevertheless, to preserve the sovereignty of people and their dignity and prohibits to a blind tyranny of the “rich empty barrels” their foul right to meddle that always bring in grave and tragic troubles; that which the west calls “human rights”, so as to cynically and revengefully with condescendence qualify a decadent Satanism practiced abroad.
Confusions made between the bright ideas and how their fate was brought to a regrettable expression is important to be taken into consideration in that same sensitive historical case which now is justifying an utter violence. A revengeful western world led and influenced by authentic Nazis who belong to a horrible american undeclared british and french racist tradition is currently worshiping and praising the vice of Satan (france 666) against god openly now that the way is cleared for it; amazingly, indeed.


I've heard of wolves in sheeps' clothing so maybe there are "praying wolves" at large, and perhaps there is a "vicious circle of ignorantness" threatening the free world. I'm on the alert anyway, but thanks Amen.
Think
dusty
Posted: Thursday, August 7, 2014 6:35:16 PM

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I don't think Amen has drunk enough iced coffee (pfrapacino) to understand that the sociological model the 1% use amongst themselves is the Martian model (communism, socialist to the T)

They simply view themselves are a different race of beings entirely, and not the humane kind.
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