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The Constitution of United States Options
man in black
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 8:50:55 AM
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José Martí, Cuba's National Hero, durng his long stay in the States wrote this praise of the Constitution of the U.S.A:

If I could I would chisel out the statues of those amazing men who forged the Constitution of the United States: I will sculpt, their huge monuments, in a group of the finest porphyry . I will then open a sacred path of unpolished marble up to the white marble temple sheltering them; and each year I will set up a week of national pilgrimage in Autumn, which is the season of maturity and of beauty, so that the reverent heads enveloped in the clouds of odorous smoke from the withered leaves, al alike: men, women, and children will go and kiss the patriarchs’ stony hands.

countryboy
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:45:34 AM
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You'd better hurry up because this president, along with his far left cronies, are trying to dismantle it piece by piece.
MarySM
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 9:52:32 AM
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I would not go so far as Jose Marti but I do admire and respect those who drafted the Constitution of the United States. The first ten amendments are collectively known as the Bill of Rights and it disappoints me that so many citizens really do not know much about the Constitution, not even the 1st amendment which is crucial to the country.

Countryboy I respectfully disagree.
Seeker
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:08:09 AM
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Countryboy, I too disagree. In fact, I would go so far as to say that President Obama is trying to repair some of the damage done over the last decade.
AJC
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:13:47 AM
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countryboy wrote:
You'd better hurry up because this president, along with his far left cronies, are trying to dismantle it piece by piece.


Applause Applause Applause Let's hope this latest defeat gets the conservatives heads out of their collective butts and they start reaching more sincerely across the aisle to come up with a real plan on health care reform. And...we vote the present leader out, come the next election.]I'd hate to be the one following this presidential term. I believe there will be higher expectations then than during our Civil War.

Man in Black...My dear friend E....Thank you for that. I would make such a pilgrimage. The more I travel, the more I am grateful for the accident of my bith in this country.
man in black
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 10:16:38 AM
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I would agree with seeker. Many may criticize Obama, but he was handled a goverment already enmeshed in a deep economic crisis and a non-sense war, if one is to be critical of presidents, then George Bush is the one to blame for most of what's happening in the States. He's the worst possible president along with Richard Nixon
JackH
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 11:16:18 AM
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man in black wrote:
José Martí, Cuba's National Hero, durng his long stay in the States wrote this praise of the Constitution of the U.S.A:

If I could I would chisel out the statues of those amazing men who forged the Constitution of the United States: I will sculpt, their huge monuments, in a group of the finest porphyry . I will then open a sacred path of unpolished marble up to the white marble temple sheltering them; and each year I will set up a week of national pilgrimage in Autumn, which is the season of maturity and of beauty, so that the reverent heads enveloped in the clouds of odorous smoke from the withered leaves, al alike: men, women, and children will go and kiss the patriarchs’ stony hands.



Beautifully put.

But I thought the Cubans hate America.
Seeker
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 12:12:55 PM
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man in black wrote:
I would agree with seeker. Many may criticize Obama, but he was handled a goverment already enmeshed in a deep economic crisis and a non-sense war, if one is to be critical of presidents, then George Bush is the one to blame for most of what's happening in the States. He's the worst possible president along with Richard Nixon


Thanks man in black.

Did anyone notice the headlines today?
GDP data show 5.7 percent rate in Q4, a quicker pace than expected
...The fourth quarter growth rate was the fastest pace since 2003 and marked two straight quarters of growth after four quarters of decline... Applause Applause Applause

JPK
Posted: Friday, January 29, 2010 1:09:45 PM
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I'm not sure if I agree or not (I am not American, so I'm not familiar with your constitution), but it is indeed beautifully said by José Marti.

However, am I the only one OCDy enough to think it would be gross to kiss the stony hands that have been kissed by 320978123890123 people before? That's like that whole kissing-the-pope's-ring business, yuck! Silenced

Sorry man in black, I didn't mean to derail your thread! Whistle
man in black
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 10:51:42 AM
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JackH Cubans don´t hate Aamericans. It´s the politicians who have given their convenient and viased point of view on that matter, and the quote I posted was written by our National Hero, a man of indisputable genius and one who led and unblemished existence. There wasn,t, isn´t, and won´t be anyone in our island of his moral stature, virtusity and intelligence.
countryboy
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 3:21:20 PM
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man in black wrote:
I would agree with seeker. Many may criticize Obama, but he was handled a goverment already enmeshed in a deep economic crisis and a non-sense war, if one is to be critical of presidents, then George Bush is the one to blame for most of what's happening in the States. He's the worst possible president along with Richard Nixon


First of all, the economic crisis in which the U.S. finds itself was NOT caused by George Bush. He did cause all the typhoons in the Pacific, the hurricanes in the Atlantic, and all the volcanic eruptions that have occurred over the last two decades, however.

No, the economic crisis was caused in large measure by left of center politicians who for decades have essentially FORCED banks to make loans to people that can't afford to pay them back. After all, EVERYONE deserves to own their own home. Even if it's three times the cost of what they can afford. The democrats have had control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for quite a while now, and for almost half a decade, Republicans have been warning of a disaster is something wasn't done. But leftists like Barnie Frank kept saying no, no, everything's fine. Until the bottom fell out. Then who did they blame? George Bush, of course. And the media made sure that the majority of Americans believed this tripe.

As for Obama, man in black, you haven't a CLUE what this man stands for. You're living in Cuba, unhappy with your lack of freedoms and your lack of opportunity, but you praise a man who's polices are destined to take the United States to where you are now.

But I'm sure that George Bush was responsible for your lack of information regarding the U.S. situation. I'm coming down with a cold, and I'm certain that George Bush is the reason that bad old germ wound up in my living room.

Galad
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 4:25:33 PM

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countryboy wrote:
man in black wrote:
I would agree with seeker. Many may criticize Obama, but he was handled a goverment already enmeshed in a deep economic crisis and a non-sense war, if one is to be critical of presidents, then George Bush is the one to blame for most of what's happening in the States. He's the worst possible president along with Richard Nixon


First of all, the economic crisis in which the U.S. finds itself was NOT caused by George Bush. He did cause all the typhoons in the Pacific, the hurricanes in the Atlantic, and all the volcanic eruptions that have occurred over the last two decades, however.

No, the economic crisis was caused in large measure by left of center politicians who for decades have essentially FORCED banks to make loans to people that can't afford to pay them back. After all, EVERYONE deserves to own their own home. Even if it's three times the cost of what they can afford. The democrats have had control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for quite a while now, and for almost half a decade, Republicans have been warning of a disaster is something wasn't done. But leftists like Barnie Frank kept saying no, no, everything's fine. Until the bottom fell out. Then who did they blame? George Bush, of course. And the media made sure that the majority of Americans believed this tripe.

As for Obama, man in black, you haven't a CLUE what this man stands for. You're living in Cuba, unhappy with your lack of freedoms and your lack of opportunity, but you praise a man who's polices are destined to take the United States to where you are now.

But I'm sure that George Bush was responsible for your lack of information regarding the U.S. situation. I'm coming down with a cold, and I'm certain that George Bush is the reason that bad old germ wound up in my living room.




Let's not make up stuff.....i.e. facts to make your story sound warranted.

Let's look at the root cause, granted not George Bush however, it was:


Deregulation was a bipartisan effort when the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed in 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Legislation for the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). Efforts to get it through Congress were driven by Clinton and his Treasury Sec. Robert Rubin. The vote in the Senate and the House fell along party lines. McCain (R.AZ) voted Yes. On November 12, 1999 President Clinton signed the Act into law. Within days after the Treasury Department signed in support for the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Rubin, a former co-chairman of Goldman Sachs, accepted a top position at Citigroup as Vice Chairman. Gramm is a current economic advisor to McCain. Rubin is a current economic advisor to Obama.

One key feature of The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act is it permitted commercial and investment banks to consolidate, which was prohibited under the Glass-Steagall Act.

And oh yea, Barny Frank voted nay, look it up yourself, unless you too busy making up stuff as you go along....

H R 10 1-Jul-1999 BILL TITLE: Financial Services Act


countryboy
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 5:25:04 PM
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Galad wrote:


Let's not make up stuff.....i.e. facts to make your story sound warranted.

Let's look at the root cause, granted not George Bush however, it was:


Deregulation was a bipartisan effort when the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed in 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Legislation for the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). Efforts to get it through Congress were driven by Clinton and his Treasury Sec. Robert Rubin. The vote in the Senate and the House fell along party lines. McCain (R.AZ) voted Yes. On November 12, 1999 President Clinton signed the Act into law. Within days after the Treasury Department signed in support for the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Rubin, a former co-chairman of Goldman Sachs, accepted a top position at Citigroup as Vice Chairman. Gramm is a current economic advisor to McCain. Rubin is a current economic advisor to Obama.

One key feature of The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act is it permitted commercial and investment banks to consolidate, which was prohibited under the Glass-Steagall Act.

And oh yea, Barny Frank voted nay, look it up yourself, unless you too busy making up stuff as you go along....

H R 10 1-Jul-1999 BILL TITLE: Financial Services Act




You , my friend, like most liberals, are FULL of copious amounts of fecal matter.
Galad
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 6:27:17 PM

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countryboy wrote:
Galad wrote:


Let's not make up stuff.....i.e. facts to make your story sound warranted.

Let's look at the root cause, granted not George Bush however, it was:


Deregulation was a bipartisan effort when the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed in 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Legislation for the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (R-TX) and in the House of Representatives by James Leach (R-IA). Efforts to get it through Congress were driven by Clinton and his Treasury Sec. Robert Rubin. The vote in the Senate and the House fell along party lines. McCain (R.AZ) voted Yes. On November 12, 1999 President Clinton signed the Act into law. Within days after the Treasury Department signed in support for the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Rubin, a former co-chairman of Goldman Sachs, accepted a top position at Citigroup as Vice Chairman. Gramm is a current economic advisor to McCain. Rubin is a current economic advisor to Obama.

One key feature of The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act is it permitted commercial and investment banks to consolidate, which was prohibited under the Glass-Steagall Act.

And oh yea, Barny Frank voted nay, look it up yourself, unless you too busy making up stuff as you go along....

H R 10 1-Jul-1999 BILL TITLE: Financial Services Act




You , my friend, like most liberals, are FULL of copious amounts of fecal matter.



Impressive counter-point
countryboy
Posted: Monday, February 1, 2010 7:18:24 PM
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Galad wrote:

Impressive counter-point


That would be amusing if it were ever possible to have a counter point with a leftist. EVERYTHING I said is true. If there is a modicum of truth in what you said, then it is meant to overshadow the basics of my statements.

For decades, banks made loans according to a proven formula that virtually guaranteed a successful rate of return. The pressure from government changed all that.

Republicans warned of problems with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac 5 years before the collapse. that's in the congressional record. Look it up.

Barney Frank, the chairman of the oversight committee, insisted that these organizations were solid. That's in the congressional record. Look it up.

Nothing was done.

Banks failed.

Bush is blamed.

Once again, I repeat:
Most liberals are full of......... well, you know.
The truth is what it is. You just can't handle it so you blame George Bush. I'm virtually certain now that the planet is going into a chill that you will find him responsible for global cooling.

Here's a recent news item on the bank failures and warnings that preceded it:
Housing crisis/bank failures
Geeman
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 2:39:52 AM

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man in black wrote:
José Martí, Cuba's National Hero, durng his long stay in the States wrote this praise of the Constitution of the U.S.A:

If I could I would chisel out the statues of those amazing men who forged the Constitution of the United States: I will sculpt, their huge monuments, in a group of the finest porphyry.

OK. So far, so good. We could always use a few statues around town just to give the birds a place to sit.

man in black wrote:
I will then open a sacred path of unpolished marble up to the white marble temple sheltering them;

Hmm. Hokay.... That's a bit much maybe. I'm not so sure I'm happy about the implication of the unpolished marble leading to the "temple" for its symbolic message about the nature of the people coming to this not-so-sacred temple. The viewing public are the unpolished stone in that equation, heading up to the monument dedicated to the deification of other citizens depicted in much more expensive stone? Not so wild about that.

man in black wrote:
and each year I will set up a week of national pilgrimage in Autumn, which is the season of maturity and of beauty,

A week of national pilgrimage? I'm always leary of people who use this kind of vocabulary (casting their politics into theological terms) and combined with the "temple" above we're getting into pretty shaky territory for a secular state. This stuff is the kind of thinking that led up to the French Revolution and all the happy head-chopping of that period. Autumn is also the season of decline, so the symbolic importance of that is a bit mixed....

man in black wrote:
so that the reverent heads enveloped in the clouds of odorous smoke from the withered leaves, all alike: men, women, and children will go and kiss the patriarchs’ stony hands.

Oh, great. Their heads are smoking now and their laurels (the leaves) are withered? Not too keen on that symbology. Why not just stick them in tattered togas and have Washington's wooden dentures sitting out in a giant glass next to his monument? One of the fundamental premises behind the Constitution is that no one need go kissing any hands, let alone some cold, rocky effigy of the Founders, so the conclusion is more than a little misguided.

Nope, this one misses the mark on several levels. It sounds pretty, but he fundamentally doesn't get it--or is subverting in a not-so-subtle-and-kind-of-obnoxious way. I'm all for some hyperbole, but this one is more than a little dubious on a couple of levels, and though the prose is pretty, I think it's basically misguided.

The Constitution and the freedoms it represents are often an ugly mistress, and dressing her up in tarty rags like this quote does doesn't show any greater understanding of her nature than does the ancient process of worshipping the king for some supposed mandate from heaven. Worshipping a political icon rather than a theological one is just displaced servile religious mania--and the body count is usually comparable. Rather, we're better portraying our mistress, the Constitution, as Shakespeare saw his:

I grant I never saw a goddess go,
My mistress when she walks, treads on the ground;
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Tuesday, February 2, 2010 7:30:58 AM
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Curiously, the word "filibuster" is NOT in the constitution.
man in black
Posted: Wednesday, February 3, 2010 10:51:38 AM
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Geeman, you may not agree with Marti´s praise of the constitution, but his political insight and knowledge of the USA during the decade of the 1880´s is umatched in the annals of your country. I doubt very much he was misguided, or didn´t get the whole picture. Perhaps you should read a bit more about him and the articles he wrote and then you will undoubtedly, be convinced that his wits and orinality, as well as the unblemished existence he led, are indeed remarkable.

Cass
Posted: Wednesday, March 3, 2010 2:14:56 PM
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Galad - thank you for trying to educate Countryboy. You are flogging a dead horse, however; people who think the way he does can never be convinced there is another side. I have my convictions too, but if someone points me in another direction I am willing to be persuaded I could have been wrong.
countryboy
Posted: Thursday, March 4, 2010 10:34:18 AM
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Cass wrote:
Galad - thank you for trying to educate Countryboy. You are flogging a dead horse, however; people who think the way he does can never be convinced there is another side. I have my convictions too, but if someone points me in another direction I am willing to be persuaded I could have been wrong.


Thank you for your open mindedness regarding how each of us arrive at where we are in life. Open mindedness is like pain. The only person who knows what they have is that individual himself. However, you, like most liberals, think you know more everyone who disagrees with you than we do.

I totally agree with your signature and hope that someday liberals like yourself will actually take a look at 'the other side' and see what's actually dangling at the end of their nose. But you'd better be wearing rose colored glasses. Otherwise, you might not be able to handle it.

Have a great day.
Irishfish
Posted: Thursday, March 4, 2010 1:47:00 PM
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countryboy wrote:
Open mindedness is like pain. The only person who knows what they have is that individual himself.


Ditto, countryboy. This is probably one of the best examples of hypocrisy I've seen in ages. Please don't mistake me here; I agree wholeheartedly with the statement. But, the hypocrisy inherent in your posts is a HUGE reason why the two sides (conservative & liberal) have completely derailed the country with their petty do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do bickering.

I, for one, am neither liberal nor conservative, neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I need no label, nor a party platform, to tell me what to believe. I, for one, think for myself. And, therefore, I do NOT presume to do the thinking for others, as you do. Opinions that differ from my own are no less valid to their owners; and, I can only hope are based on the same rigors of logic that I put mine through. So, I show those opinions, let alone the people who hold them, with the respect I expect to receive for my own.

As long as the two camps (and their unofficial spokesmen/women) continue to throw around such disrespectful and hypocritical...how did you say...copious amounts of fecal matter, the country will continue to spiral into oblivion.

Think for yourself...and let others do the same.
nooblet
Posted: Thursday, March 4, 2010 1:52:23 PM
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Well said, Irishfish.
countryboy
Posted: Thursday, March 4, 2010 6:24:55 PM
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Irishfish wrote:
countryboy wrote:
Open mindedness is like pain. The only person who knows what they have is that individual himself.


Ditto, countryboy. This is probably one of the best examples of hypocrisy I've seen in ages. Please don't mistake me here; I agree wholeheartedly with the statement. But, the hypocrisy inherent in your posts is a HUGE reason why the two sides (conservative & liberal) have completely derailed the country with their petty do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do bickering.




Hypocrisy is the act of persistently pretending to hold beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually hold. I give the definition here because of your incorrect use of the word. What I have said in my posts are what I genuinely believe. Therefore, your comment regarding my 'hypocrisy' has no relevance. If you review my posts, you will find a heavy disagreement on some fronts, and - yes - I have been sarcastic when I think it's warranted. But what you will not find - unless it's 'returning the favor'- is a personal attack on the individual who made the statement. I might think the IDEA is ridiculous, but I do not call the originator of that idea 'an idiot'. (I may think it, but I won't say it. Angel

I think for myself, I have examined both sides of the issue of health reform. and have come to the conclusion that statements made about the government controlled health care, as described by this Democrat party are for the most part major untruths that have been proven false. It is impossible, for example, for this plan to 'save the government' money, and it is clearly another major step towards bankrupting this nation. The costs are far too high. There are other ways to do this step by step rather than to take us down a road to ruin. If you have seriously considered the offerings of both sides, then congratulations. If you have not, then come back to the table with your main course after you've done a better job of preparing the meal.
nooblet
Posted: Thursday, March 4, 2010 7:04:49 PM
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Well, countryboy, considering you were implying that you are open-minded in your response to Cass, but refused to try and argue against Galad's post and instead said that he was full of shit, I'd say that is pretty hypocritical.
Irishfish
Posted: Saturday, March 6, 2010 3:51:23 PM
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nooblet wrote:
Well, countryboy, considering you were implying that you are open-minded in your response to Cass, but refused to try and argue against Galad's post and instead said that he was full of shit, I'd say that is pretty hypocritical.


Thanks nooblet for spelling it out; I find the one thing lacking from the definition of hypocrisy is that it almost always manifests itself in a way that makes the individual exhibiting it completely unable to see it. Oh, that and it also seems to be the complete basis for the partisan finger-pointing that passes for our two-party system these days.

That being said...I must point out, to his credit, that in his response to me, countryboy did start going back to the discussion at hand and start addressing the issues. This is, after all, the whole point of my previous post.

We should all let each other have their own opinions and discuss them. There is NO point logging into such a messageboard just to see yourself type your own opinion over and over, denying anyone who even slightly disagrees with you.

That's called a blog! :P
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