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Thought is the labor of the intellect, reverie is its pleasure. Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Thought is the labor of the intellect, reverie is its pleasure.

Victor Hugo (1802-1885)
Bully_rus
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 1:16:42 AM
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Think that thought and reverie more close coupled than we could imagine or thought.
MechPebbles
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:01:25 AM

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Has anyone read the Hunchback of Notre Dame and actually enjoyed the chapter on the building architecture and the following chapter on the city of Paris? I abandoned the book when the pain became unbearable.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 7:25:43 AM
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Hugo Quote:

"Thought is the labor of the intellect, reverie is its pleasure."


A wondrous mystery is weightless, immaterial thought; the unseen catalyst of human invention.


Hebrews 11:3

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

*******************

For materialist the wonder of existence, where there is no transcendent mind or soul, reality is ultimately bleak and meaningless. An endless shuffling of atoms.


Miriam...
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 7:44:17 AM

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To Absurdicuss: I love your quote.

Another quote I heard the other day, by the author of Seeking The Wild God of Nature (whose name I cannot recall at the moment, and I don't think I have the tittle just right either), is: --"Belief is intellectual surrender".

This thought struck me, of course. But, I was wondering what your great mind has to say about it.
curmudgeonine
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 8:38:20 AM

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This is true, to my mind.
Haz
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 8:58:37 AM

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Yes, I like that Miriam. Thank you.
Marguerite
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 10:39:55 AM

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"Thought is the labor of the intellect, reverie is its pleasure." Reverie certainly is found in the pleasure center of the brain. What is sweeter than to be lost a reverie?
capitán
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:49:26 PM

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Absurdicuss wrote:
Hugo Quote:

"Thought is the labor of the intellect, reverie is its pleasure."


A wondrous mystery is weightless, immaterial thought; the unseen catalyst of human invention.


Hebrews 11:3

By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

*******************

For materialist the wonder of existence, where there is no transcendent mind or soul, reality is ultimately bleak and meaningless. An endless shuffling of atoms.



--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

You are right in one thing, Absurdicuss, the invisible things are far more important if you think about how they compose what can be seen.
But that we cannot prove all of the invisible things does not mean that we will not do it at a rather certain time. After all, once men thought it was impossible to fly, or go to the stars.

Only because I do not believe in any god it does not make my life bleak or meaningless.
Life is an endless chain of events that even though they are totally natural, to our little understanding they are magical and incredible.

I repeat, only because I do not have faith in any god or religion, it does not make my life dull or miserable.
Some of us, many now, atheists, try to understand why many people have their beliefs and try not to call their lives senseless; I try to understand them because I used to be a believer once, a son of pastor. Tolerance, understanding, patience and education are what our kind needs, understanding of our peers and acceptance of their decisions in life is the path we, humans, should walk.

And what you called "an endless shuffle of atoms" is a world as fascinating, exciting and astonoshing enough that many have spent their lives discovering secrets of the mechanics of the universe.
Never call this pursuit "bleak and meaningless" again, for women and men that have spent their lives on such pursuit are the ones that have helped us understand the world, truly changing it.
Discoveries in the field of medicine, breakthroughs in physics, mathematics, astronomy, chemistry are the reason why today we can deal with cancer, go to space, understand how our planet works, etc.
Without science, there would be no explanation of natural phenomena and men would not be sure about why it rains or why there are eclipses, attributing such events to any god.

For science, proof is needed.
But that we can't proof something does not mean it might not exist. I can't prove that the spaghetti monster does not exist, but that does not mean it does, right?
Such way of carrying on with our lives is not bleak or meaningless, it is just how mankind has been thinking to discover the mysteries of the universe throughout history.

I respect people's faith and opinions about god and religion, but that does not mean that they should call us, the ones who do not share their way of living, meaningless.
I am sorry, Absurdicuss, it is nothing about you, but about intolerance. I like reading your posts and engaging in discussions with you and all the members of the forum.
I know you have several good opinions, which I am glad you share with us all. It is certainly nothing personal.
monamagda
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:49:36 PM

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The quote by Victor Hugo I love is:
"Laughter Is The Sun That Drives Winter From The Human Face."
Haz
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 2:57:54 PM

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Oh yes, love that monamagda. Now I'll have to go and read him.
kenturner1
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 6:06:25 PM

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Great quote! Great posts! Thanks!
Verbatim
Posted: Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:21:28 PM
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Miriam...: "Another quote I heard the other day..."

If I may be so bold as to interfere, the quote is from Barbara Ehrenreich's recent book "Living With a Wild God" (for short). I have not read the book, only a brief summary.

"Belief is intellectual surrender" appears to be a newly coined phrase predicated on the proposition--not stated up front-- that "belief" and intellectual endeavor are mutually exclusive.

Intellectual denial of "belief", any belief for that matter, on that basis alone, is probably lacking. Belief is a mental act, whether based in correct reasoning or not, and having arrived
even at a wrong belief could seldom be the result of surrendering mental activity. Unless the mental activity is pathologically impaired.

Back to Victor Hugo, his subject quote an exquisite play on words, implies that reverie is a pleasurable reward for the labor: the daydreaming in which thought gets lost.
Here is another quote from Les Misérables: "A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is a visible labour and there is an invisible labour."

Sounds like reverie?






Miriam...
Posted: Thursday, April 10, 2014 9:18:37 AM

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Thank you, Verbatim, for the author's name and correct wording of title. And also for your interpretation of her quote.

I also very much like your second quote from Les Misérables. Thank you for posting.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:01:36 PM
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Hey Miriam, The folks who propose that belief is intellectual surrender sincerely believe it.

Hey Capitan, glad you enjoy my posts. The feeling is mutual. Apparently we hold vastly different views on ultimate origins.

My statement, the one with which you contend, is predicated on the sincere belief that the materialist's worldview is ultimately bleak and meaningless, and not to be confused with the worthiness, contributions and meaningfulness of the lives lead by those who hold that view.

It seems to me that the materialist view of eternal recycling of atoms is contradicted by lives of great purpose, passion and all of the attributes than transcend the physicality of our being.

Consider Richard Dawkins view that death is the ultimate finality of consciousness; that the accidental universe in which we live, love, hope, and thrive is nothing more than the random swirling and coalescing of the atoms from which it is made.

Dawkins has made it his life's purpose to preach that there is no transcendent meaning to life at all.

We have now observed that matter is mostly empty space. This brings into question the nature of existence.


*****************


It's okay though, bro, we can disagree and still enjoy the diversity of perspectives we encounter here in the forum. Some of my favorite TFD members are atheists, monists, lunatics and liberals, and I'm in there somewhere too.

Verbatim
Posted: Friday, April 11, 2014 2:40:09 PM
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Miriam...: You are welcome. Still on the subject of "thought", there is a variety of thought evident around us, including here in this forum, some more subtle than other,
some capable of the right connection and parallel, some not laboring at all. Yours, of April 9th, was well connected and apropos.
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