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I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free. Options
Daemon
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free.

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)
mangezi
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:00:38 AM

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Daemon wrote:
I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free.

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)
Freedom and butterflies then free like a butterfly? Mr. Dickens, I know not.
Manusof
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:24:52 AM

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Yes, but they live only one day.
CheVegas ☁️ ✈ ☁️
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:58:04 AM

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Hmmm. This doesn't stand up well as a quotation. Dickens has better stuff than this fluffy nugget.

In context...

"I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free. Mankind will surely not deny to Harold Skimpole what it concedes to the butterflies!" Charles Dickens, Bleak House
Bully_rus
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:37:46 AM
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Daemon wrote:
I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free.

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)

What about caterpillar, chrysalis or common flies?
vijayendra kumar sinha
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:58:30 AM

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being free and longing for freedom are the two different roads to the same destination . Conceding to slavery of any kind can not be justified .
reinsalkas
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:05:29 AM
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The butterfly just is. It doesn't know that it is free nor it cares. We suppose it is free, we don't know if it is.
avi21nash
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:37:42 AM

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Simple but true.
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:11:52 AM
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Butterflies might be free but they only live for about a month. Not my idea of immortality Mr Dickens.
Guto André
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:29:53 AM

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We looking for freedom by outside, but it leaves inside us. Freedom is the strong desire of to be who we are actually.
curmudgeonine
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:39:12 AM

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Manusof wrote:
Yes, but they live only one day.

Not true. Now, this bit is about Monarchs, but they alone refute the 'only one day' idea: "To put a true average on the life span of a monarch butterfly, you would literally have to go all over the world. The answer is different all over and if you really want to know the full life span of a monarch butterfly, you will definitely have to do your research into the monarchs that live in your area of the world. In the USA, adult monarchs live 2-6 weeks if they are in the first 3 generations of butterflies in the year. The 4th generation can live up to eight months because they have to do a long migration. A few quick searches online should give you an overall pretty good feel of the life span of this beautiful creature."
Runi
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:54:31 AM

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I'm with you, Charles!
Gustavo de S Consoni
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:38:22 AM

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Here, in Brazil, "Oliver Twist", "A Christmas Carol" and "David Copperfield" are some of his works that we can find easily in the bookshelves.
nwoebcke
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:16:33 AM
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The quote comes from Dickens work 'Bleak House' by the character Skimpole and is designed to be taken with a grain of salt, as Skimpole is an antagonist in the story. From the Schmoop web site:
Quote:
Character Analysis
A self-described man-child, Skimpole is a parasitic mooch who lives a life completely free of responsibility. Claiming to understand nothing about money or other adult matters, he is clearly a phony. He eventually betrays his main patron Jarndyce.

Bleak House has many very realistic and sympathetic characters, but Skimpole is not one of them. He is a leech who pretends that he is just too naïve and charmingly childlike to understand responsibility. In reality, of course, he is way too clever for any of that baloney to be true.
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:25:17 AM
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Daemon wrote:
I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free.

Charles Dickens (1812-1870)


Another person that observed the methods used by oligarchs to control and manipulate the "rabble" (that's you and I).

The most obvious mechanism of control is money.

Money is the harness to control human resources.

WHO wields the harness?
philânderos
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:32:37 AM

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I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free.

Charles Dickens (1812-1870

===================
What a flimsy description of freedom
Luker4
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 11:34:29 AM

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Location: Wrocław Pracze, Lower Silesian Voivodeship, Poland
No creature on this earth is truly free,
we're bound by responsibilities, emotions and gravity Whistle

life in itself is painful, our bodies are prisons for the soul Think

but some are more free than others,
and the rest wants to be equally free Think


Nina Simone - I Wish I Knew How It Would Feel To Be Free

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PT9PPfSkwQ

ithink140
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:40:43 PM
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Of course Dickens was aware of the short life of a butterfly… that is obvious! This comment is not meant to be applied as a truth; it is one of his characters… Harold Skimpole… expressing his warped view, and not the belief of Dickens himself. Skimpole is a character, not a real person. He was speaking in character.

Skimpole was a charlatan, a selfish man seeking his own ends. He is a cheat and a liar without morals. A scrounger who lives of others and hides this under his philosophy of the pursuit of freedom.

In essence it captures the notion of freedom in a particular sense, in that the butterfly, no matter the length of its life... flits to and fro in freedom. It does indeed stand up well since the man speaks in character.

One must not attribute all that Dickens writes as being his own view of life. He was a great writer who knew how to write in character... a truly awesome gift.


Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:34:32 PM
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luker4 wrote:
No creature on this earth is truly free,
...and the rest wants to be equally free Think


In my experience, and to my ongoing frustration, Aldous Huxley's quote sums up the reality much better...

"There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution."
Aldous Huxley, Tavistock Group, California Medical School, 1961
Trivium_Discipulus
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 1:36:35 PM
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ithink140 wrote:
Of course Dickens was aware of the short life of a butterfly… that is obvious! This comment is not meant to be applied as a truth; it is one of his characters… Harold Skimpole… expressing his warped view, and not the belief of Dickens himself. Skimpole is a character, not a real person. He was speaking in character.

Skimpole was a charlatan, a selfish man seeking his own ends. He is a cheat and a liar without morals. A scrounger who lives of others and hides this under his philosophy of the pursuit of freedom.

In essence it captures the notion of freedom in a particular sense, in that the butterfly, no matter the length of its life... flits to and fro in freedom. It does indeed stand up well since the man speaks in character.

One must not attribute all that Dickens writes as being his own view of life. He was a great writer who knew how to write in character... a truly awesome gift.




Thanks for sharing the context in which the quote rests.
Articulate Dreamer
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 2:38:17 PM

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Chevegas wrote:
Hmmm. This doesn't stand up well as a quotation. Dickens has better stuff than this fluffy nugget.

In context...

"I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free. Mankind will surely not deny to Harold Skimpole what it concedes to the butterflies!" Charles Dickens, Bleak House


Thanks, Chev! Quotations attributed to writers can be baffling when they are actually out of the mouth of a character the writer created.

Nor did Dickens himself say "The law is an ass"! I think it was Barkis who said " Is that what the law says? If so, then the law is an ass." Or words to that effect.
Kirk Stephens
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:49:31 PM

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I disagree -- I think it's a great quote.
kenturner1
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:51:51 PM

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The cry of all creatures is to be free. Freedom is a state of mind. And ultimately that state of mind transcends whatever physical or tangible limitations that we must overcome.
Miriam...
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:00:37 PM

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I think freedom is as important as love to the human spirit. Love that is full of 'conditions' is filled with pain to those who experience it, because one cannot 'have' a person's 'love' without the loss of one's autonomy. And so ultimately, one must choose between the two...which is always a no win dilemna.
This reminds me of one of Chaucer's stories found in his "Canterbury Tales"-- I believe the tale I have in mind was called the "Wife of Bath"? What strikes me about this story, if I remember it correctly, is the need for (Alison ?) to live life her life autonomously. I think she finally finds this with her last husband, and thus is able to behave in a decent manner to him. Perhaps it was that she was at last able to love him... I think that is how the story goes.:)
Dosei Iantha Evans
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:14:09 PM

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why butterflies? why not eagles?
ah...
apparently he hated eagles?
Verbatim
Posted: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 10:58:23 PM
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nwoebcke wrote:
The quote comes from Dickens work 'Bleak House' by the character Skimpole and is designed to be taken with a grain of salt, as Skimpole is an antagonist in the story. From the Schmoop web site:
Quote:
Character Analysis
A self-described man-child, Skimpole is a parasitic mooch who lives a life completely free of responsibility. Claiming to understand nothing about money or other adult matters, he is clearly a phony. He eventually betrays his main patron Jarndyce.

Bleak House has many very realistic and sympathetic characters, but Skimpole is not one of them. He is a leech who pretends that he is just too naïve and charmingly childlike to understand responsibility. In reality, of course, he is way too clever for any of that baloney to be true.


Welcome to this forum where sometimes it helps to spell out the context, thanks.

The parasitic mooch, yearning for freedom. Of all people who deserve freedom, the loudest screams for more of it come from the least deserving quarters.
CheVegas ☁️ ✈ ☁️
Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 1:43:44 AM

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Joined: 12/19/2013
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Location: Cheboygan, Michigan, United States
luker4 wrote:
No creature on this earth is truly free,
we're bound by responsibilities, emotions and gravity Whistle

life in itself is painful, our bodies are prisons for the soul Think

but some are more free than others,
and the rest wants to be equally free Think


Nina Simone - I Wish I Knew How It Would Feel To Be Free


Excellent! I love Nina too! Here's her best live performance on YT, in my opinion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUcXI2BIUOQ
Miriam...
Posted: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:54:03 AM

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To Yuelin: I don't understand your post. I don't think it makes any difference whether Dickens uses a butterfly, eagle, hawk, or albatros to illustrate his point. Unless you are attaching a symbolic meaning to the insect, anamal or bird used. I think all creatures--including humans--want to be free.
However, I too like Luker's point about how no one is totally 'free'--in its absolute sense. I think, though, what we are discussing here are the various forms in which freedom IS capable of manifesting itself. One important way is the metamorphos of the human soul.
dusty
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2014 3:22:04 PM

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I understood exactly what you meant YZ, ,and I can appreciate your humor. It's well placed because the discussion is about the Dickens quote, which as Ithink wisely pointed out how pointless it is to discuss a character's dialogue as if it was spoken by the author outside of the realm of the fictional story

It would be more apparent and everyone would likely understand what Yuelin meant if Dickens were alive, as if he able to speak for himself he would be infuriated that the programmer who instructs Daemon forgot to add the disclaimer for what should and should not be considered a "quote"

This is the equivalent to discussing an actors personal character by using their part played in a movie, as opposed to their real life behavior.


In regards to the secondary philosophical discussion on freedom, I am not sure metamorphos has anything to do with the degree of freedom a soul can experience housed in the body of Human Being.

Regardless of which House a soul resides in, there will always be a limit to the freedom the soul will have; which is specific for each house

It's been my experience that the greatest amount of freedom is actually obtained by completely fulfilling the responsibility of every freedom you choose to exercise. I subscribe to the theory that said responsibilities cannot be separated from their corresponding freedom, no matter if they are recognized or not.

As when they are not recognized or not fulfilled, an unpaid non-monetary debt will remain. It's why education truly is so important as many people don't care about these debts because they are not monetary.

Which is really a shame

As I think it was Jefferson who wrote of these mandatory responsibilities accurately when he spoke about how the dead care for a Living Tree
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