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Bloody Sunday: The Bogside Massacre (1972) Options
Daemon
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Bloody Sunday: The Bogside Massacre (1972)

In 1968, civil rights protests by Roman Catholics in Northern Ireland sparked violent conflicts with Protestants, resulting in the occupation of the province by British troops. The Bogside Massacre greatly worsened the situation. On "Bloody Sunday"—January 30, 1972—British troops shot 26 unarmed civil rights protesters. Thirteen victims—seven of whom were teenagers—died almost immediately, and a fourteenth later succumbed to his injuries. What did the first inquiry into the massacre find? More...
HasmukhDoshi
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 3:38:35 AM
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The killings were unjustified and unjustifiable. Fortunately after that no such incident occurred.
CheVegas ☁️ ✈ ☁️
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 3:50:36 AM

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Good tune by U2. The old U2. The good U2.
Ray41
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 5:32:48 AM

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HasmukhDoshi wrote:
The killings were unjustified and unjustifiable. Fortunately after that no such incident occurred.


Unfortunately the killing did go on, and, there have been many 'incidents' on both sides that have occurred since.

42 years later and the terrorism has not stopped, nor the indiscriminate killing as a result of car bombs, etc. all in the name of Catholicism/Protestantism.Sick

http://www.bing.com/search?q=northern%20ireland%20car%20bomb&FORM=WLETLB&PC=WLEM&QS=n
youme
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 9:50:32 AM
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A good song indeed :)
Guto André
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:38:01 AM

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What did the first inquiry into the massacre find?

Among the evidence presented to the tribunal were the results of paraffin tests, used to identify lead residues from firing weapons, and that nail bombs had been found on the body of one of those killed. Tests for traces of explosives on the clothes of eleven of the dead proved negative, while those of the remaining man could not be tested as they had already been washed. Most Irish people and witnesses to the event disputed the report's conclusions and regarded it as a whitewash. It has been argued that firearms residue on some deceased may have come from contact with the soldiers who themselves moved some of the bodies, or that the presence of lead on the hands of one (James Wray) was easily explained by the fact that his occupation involved the use of lead-based solder. In fact, in 1992, John Major, writing to John Hume stated:

“ The Government made clear in 1974 that those who were killed on 'Bloody Sunday' should be regarded as innocent of any allegation that they were shot whilst handling firearms or explosives. I hope that the families of those who died will accept that assurance.
Klaas V
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:47:50 AM

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Chevegas wrote:
Good tune by U2. The old U2. The good U2.


They are still good IMO speaking as a fan of 25+ years. My fav is 'Pride (in the name of love)' about other discrimination, not by religion, but skin color. Dunno what's worse.

Free at last they took your life; they could not take your pride Bono about MLK "I have a dream" (another song)
Mortal Human
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 3:36:48 PM

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Saville Inquiry - established in January 1998 to re-examine Bloody Sunday. 26 years after the British soldiers had brutally killed 14 people and injured 12.

British Army Major Hubert O'Neill, issued a statement on 21 August 1973: "This Sunday became known as Bloody Sunday and bloody it was. It was quite unnecessary. It strikes me that the Army ran amok that day and shot without thinking what they were doing. They were shooting innocent people. These people may have been taking part in a march that was banned but that does not justify the troops coming in and firing live rounds indiscriminately. I would say without hesitation that it was sheer, unadulterated murder. It was murder." (source Wikipedia)
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 7:33:36 PM
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You quoted and opined, MH, the following:

Saville Inquiry - established in January 1998 to re-examine Bloody Sunday. 26 years after the British soldiers had brutally killed 14 people and injured 12.

I would say without hesitation that it was sheer, unadulterated murder. It was murder.


Very true just as the Loyalists and IRA committed many, many, more such crimes... blowing up women, children and innocent men and brutally murdering soldiers who were there to defend the population... let us balance the scales.
excaelis
Posted: Thursday, January 30, 2014 9:22:15 PM

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You can't balance that scale, 140. Young soldiers panicked and shot people for that reason. That doesn't help. It's just more dead people in a stupid economic conflict. Yet another stupid economic conflict.
ithink140
Posted: Friday, January 31, 2014 6:55:27 PM
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I agree the soldiers panicked, Ex... I was attempting to be fair-minded and look at the other side of the coin.

However I do not agree that economics is at the core of the dispute. There has long been a willingness on the part of the British Government to cede sovereignty to Eire but he issue has always been that of consent and still is.

The Protestant population of Northern Ireland has been the majority, but that is now changing, but even were there to be a vote on the issue a Catholic Majority would be unable to succeed if they did not carry the Protestants with them. Religion has played a part, true, and that is because the population is divided along those lines, but it isn’t really at the core of things… it is used.

National identity is at the core. If the British could carry the people of Northern Ireland in unity to cede to Erie there would be no obstacle at all.

To satisfy the Protestants, the Southern Irish Government has to remove Catholic based laws from the statute book and become more secular… they must reduce the influence and power of the Catholic Church. And here your point about economics introduces itself. They must also persuade the Protestants that they will be better off in Eire and that they will have a fair crack of the whip at power since they will then be a substantially smaller part of the population.

If there is cessation without consent then there will be a bloodbath and the 'troubles' would begin all over again in reverse order.
excaelis
Posted: Saturday, February 1, 2014 7:32:27 PM

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Historically Catholics were denied access to the same levels of job opportunities and compensation as Protestants. That's why I would classify this as an economic struggle.
ithink140
Posted: Sunday, February 2, 2014 6:09:51 AM
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You said EX: Historically Catholics were denied access to the same levels of job opportunities and compensation as Protestants. That's why I would classify this as an economic struggle

But you are focusing on one aspect alone and ignoring others. The protestant population were planted during the reign of James 1st and the best six counties carved out for the British. So an unnatural religious and identity divide occurred. The introduced people came from Scotland and England and were planted in an island that was dominated by Catholics... they were culturally different. So it is understandable that siege mentality... a them and us divide… would take hold. Over the centuries this became entrenched leading to intractable bigotry on the part of the movers and shakers of the Protestants, and a sense of injustice on the part of the Catholic population leading to the Nationalist movement. The natural rise of the Nationalists further entrenched the bigotry and protectionism of the Protestants. So we see how division came about.

As a result of history, not chiefly one of religion, the Catholic population were frozen out of power and influence by the Protestant majority. Catholics are descended from the indigenous population while the Protestants were implanted.

As a personal viewpoint it makes sense to me that the island of Ireland becomes one once again, but now religion plays its bad part again because Eire kowtows to the Catholic Church on issues such as abortion, whereas the Protestants are more ‘liberated.’

Were the Protestants to be dragged kicking and fighting into Ireland we would have a complete reversal of roles and not a solution. That is why consent is vital.
HasmukhDoshi
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2014 1:03:00 PM
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Ray41 wrote:
HasmukhDoshi wrote:
The killings were unjustified and unjustifiable. Fortunately after that no such incident occurred.


Unfortunately the killing did go on, and, there have been many 'incidents' on both sides that have occurred since.

42 years later and the terrorism has not stopped, nor the indiscriminate killing as a result of car bombs, etc. all in the name of Catholicism/Protestantism.Sick

http://www.bing.com/search?
q=northern%20ireland%20car%20bomb&FORM=WLETLB&PC=WLEM&QS=n

Thanks for update.
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