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Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have... Options
Daemon
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 12:00:00 AM
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Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881)
Pieter_Hove
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:49:42 AM

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Daemon wrote:
Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881)


so true Whistle
CheVegas ☁️ ✈ ☁️
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 2:40:19 AM

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Especially true in the Middle East and North Africa. As an educated human engaged in technical consulting within a Muslim-majority country, I can attest.

The intellectual oppression endured by bright people living in this region is enough to rattle your existence to the core. Thank goodness for TFD--it helps me exercise the mental "muscles!"
SrkiMi
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 4:14:06 AM

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Its everywhere and for everyone.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 4:38:42 AM

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Yes, it is all relative, is it not?
Bully_rus
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:05:23 AM
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Some suffer from an excess of money, food etc, some from a lack thereof. Maybe only true bliss in this world is an absence of pain and suffering? When you subtract the golden billion from the earthly population, life doesn't seems to be very funny. Especially when you wander through winter's doldrums...
MrIsland
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:53:37 AM

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'Great men', as seemingly understood by Dostoyevsky, can perceive reality for what it actually is. To me, ordinary people can't. They're just too busy with mundane distractions: some daydream about their next car; others worry about bills or what they are going to have for dinner, if anything. So, if our main concern is to survive, it's expected that those who have just enough are the happiest ones. Ignorance is bliss. 'Panem et circenses' works!
jcbarros
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:55:25 AM

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Just now... I notice I start to feel some sadness in my sensitive heart.
GreenBanana
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 1:42:20 PM

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Especially when one gets their finger bit off and it falls in a volcano, right, Fyodor?
CheVegas ☁️ ✈ ☁️
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 3:44:16 PM

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SrkiMi wrote:
Its everywhere and for everyone.


Depending on the era and geography, one place can be much worse than another. I mean externally--if Fyodor solely means internal strife, well that's another matter.
Absurdicuss
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 5:26:56 PM
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Ecclesiastes 1:18

For with much wisdom comes much sorrow;
the more knowledge, the more grief.
Verbatim
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 6:17:08 PM
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Daemon wrote:
Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881)


Aren't we all "really great men (and women)" with large intelligence and deep hearts? Maybe some of the time?
mangezi
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:16:56 PM

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Chevegas wrote:
Especially true in the Middle East and North Africa. As an educated human engaged in technical consulting within a Muslim-majority country, I can attest.

The intellectual oppression endured by bright people living in this region is enough to rattle your existence to the core. Thank goodness for TFD--it helps me exercise the mental "muscles!"
Africa and Middle East, are you well travelled or you make good use of tabloids, weeklies and dailies. Or shy to ask the Africans and Asians, Chevegas?
mangezi
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:18:43 PM

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Location: Stellenbosch, Western Cape, South Africa
Chevegas wrote:
Especially true in the Middle East and North Africa. As an educated human engaged in technical consulting within a Muslim-majority country, I can attest.

The intellectual oppression endured by bright people living in this region is enough to rattle your existence to the core. Thank goodness for TFD--it helps me exercise the mental "muscles!"
Guto André
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2014 10:05:23 PM

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No pain no gain.
vijayendra kumar sinha
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:16:33 AM

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its true to all regions and times. knowledge and sincerity is the cause of grief and sorrow.but that is the way human being has to adopt to maintain balance and make this world more beautiful to live in.
CheVegas ☁️ ✈ ☁️
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 1:24:36 AM

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"Africa and Middle East, are you well travelled or you make good use of tabloids, weeklies and dailies. Or shy to ask the Africans and Asians, Chevegas?"

No, muketah...I get around. I've been to +50 countries, but never sub-Sahara Africa. (There's only about 200 in the world...depending on who you talk to.)

;-)
Articulate Dreamer
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 2:14:59 AM

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Shelley said something similar...
" ..Most wretched men are cradled into poetry by wrong
They learn in suffering what they teach in song..."


But i tend to agree with Jacobus; for true intelligence must include evolved equanimity.



Miriam...
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:14:16 AM

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Dear Articulate Dreamer,

I, too, agree with Jacobus. I think his statement is a profound truth. I am so glad to read it this morning.:) It gives me a small stone to carry with me on my journey.

"But i tend to agree with Jacobus; for true intelligence must include evolved equanimity."
Verbatim
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 3:54:19 PM
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"The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth."
The trouble with Dostoevsky's quote from Crime and Punishment is that some great men punish themselves with great sadness, just because they must.

Dostoevsky also wrote: "I punish myself for my whole life, my whole life I punish."-- "Man is sometimes extraordinarily, passionately, in love with suffering...”
"To love is to suffer and there can be no love otherwise."-- "This is my last message to you: in sorrow, seek happiness."

On that note, Dostoevsky wrote many beautiful words about happiness and joy.


Miriam...
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:21:55 PM

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I think anyone who has a conscience suffers. For, it is one thing to aclnowledge the truth about one's self; but it is another thing to feel *remorse * for what is true about ourselves.

Verbatim
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 8:09:06 PM
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Miriam... wrote:
I think anyone who has a conscience suffers. For, it is one thing to acknowledge the truth about one's self; but it is another thing to feel *remorse * for what is true about ourselves.


Miriam, you may have anticipated Dostoyevsky who wrote this: "Above all, avoid falsehood, every kind of falsehood, especially falseness to yourself. Watch over your own deceitfulness and look into it every hour, every minute."
Great minds think alike?

I hope he did not anticipate what you so rightfully said about feeling "remorse" for what is true about ourselves. Because he also wrote this:

"To be acutely conscious is a disease, a real, honest-to-goodness disease." Great minds suffer, indeed.
Miriam...
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2014 11:00:31 PM

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To Verbatium: I wasn't aware of this saying by Dostoyevsky. But in regard to your second quote by Dostoyevsky:

"To be acutely conscious is a disease, a real, honest-to-goodness disease." Great minds suffer, indeed."

'Acute consciousness' is not the same as remorse. Also--when one feels remorse, one has a deep and sincere feeling of repentance, and one loathes to repeat their 'sin'. For one understands and feels with great depth the suffering one has caused. (...And this, I grant you, can cause an anguished mind.)

However,I think that to be "acutely conscious" one does feel the dis-ease of all that one is aware of, and all that one knows that humanity is capable of. And though, perhaps for a moment, a great mind may know the bliss and rapture of the goodness that humanity is sometimes capable of, one also knows it does not last.

Verbatim
Posted: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 12:57:28 AM
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Miriam, I sincerely regret if my compliment was mis-constructed or embarrassing.
At any rate, to feel remorse one must have first an acute conscience--which is what Dostoyevsky had bitterly lamented, perhaps as a curse in disguise; you on the other hand, had said
"I think anyone who has a conscience suffers." I saw an uncanny connection there.
Miriam...
Posted: Tuesday, January 28, 2014 7:20:48 PM

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To Verbatim: Do not fear. I did not think anything amiss with your insight. I always look forward to reading your
posts. It is a shame how many times something someone writes is misconstrued to mean something other than what is innocently intended. Kind regards.
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