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"Meaning" Options
Luftmarque
Posted: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 6:13:21 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 3,119
Neurons: 39,962
Location: Pau, Aquitaine, France
fred wrote:
Luftmarque wrote:
fred wrote:
What's the meaning [use] of meaning [mention]?
Could you please phrase that in a different way? It would be helpful if you could refrain from using the word for which you are asking a definition in your question. Thanks.
I can do that for you.
Then please do (and really, I am interested in the response, I'm not just needling you).
Luftmarque
Posted: Tuesday, April 7, 2009 6:46:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 3,119
Neurons: 39,962
Location: Pau, Aquitaine, France
fred wrote:

If there is a point to this conversation, it is this, we are discussing the English language on this forum and no one knows the meaning of "Meaning". Don't you think this is outrageous? I'm simply asking questions to discover what "Meaning" is.

What is the meaning of "Meaning"?
If there is no meaning to words, how does language work?
If there is some sort of wavering middle ground of meaning, how does that work? What influences the wavering.
How is it the greatest poets use words that can have more than one meaning and still make some kind of sense.

Any way, just wondering.

The statement that no one on this forum knows the meaning of "Meaning" is patently untrue, and certainly untrue of fred, at least to the extent that I can know anything about what fred knows. I know this because fred uses the word meaning in a manner consistent with the way I use it and the ways I see other English-speakers use it. In the above post, fred used meaning five times, in a correct and skillful manner so far as I can tell. I must conclude that fred knows the meaning of meaning. So, at a minimum, two people on this forum know the meaning of meaning (and, as time goes on [now why doesn't time go up?] we may be the only two people on this forum!) It seems to me that we can't answer this question to fred's satisfaction via definitions and it is an extra-linguistic query, firmly in the Philosophy/Epistemology area.

But I'm in favor of a broad charter for TFDLFs, so onward and upward. From my point-of-view, none of the questions above are difficult at all: we all know (to the extent we know anything) what meaning means--we just can't express this knowledge in a way that fred has accepted; words do have meaning; the question of how language works is larger than this topic; I don't know what "wavering middle ground of meaning" means; and we all use words that have more than one meaning all the time and we (most of the time) make some kind of sense. It's one of the good things about having such big brains.
fred
Posted: Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:10:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
Luftmarque wrote:
fred wrote:

If there is a point to this conversation, it is this, we are discussing the English language on this forum and no one knows the meaning of "Meaning". Don't you think this is outrageous? I'm simply asking questions to discover what "Meaning" is.

What is the meaning of "Meaning"?
If there is no meaning to words, how does language work?
If there is some sort of wavering middle ground of meaning, how does that work? What influences the wavering.
How is it the greatest poets use words that can have more than one meaning and still make some kind of sense.

Any way, just wondering.

The statement that no one on this forum knows the meaning of "Meaning" is patently untrue, and certainly untrue of fred, at least to the extent that I can know anything about what fred knows.
Then how can you know what I mean?

I know this because fred uses the word meaning in a manner consistent with the way I use it and the ways I see other English-speakers use it.
Can you use a word “consistent with the way I use it and the ways I see other English-speakers use it” and not know it’s meaning?

In the above post, fred used meaning five times, in a correct and skillful manner so far as I can tell. I must conclude that fred knows the meaning of meaning.
Are you telling me you are using the “guess” mechanism in determining a meaning?

So, at a minimum, two people on this forum know the meaning of meaning
Are you saying “knowing” involves the mechanism of “guessing”?

(and, as time goes on [now why doesn't time go up?]
It may be an old image of the River. But how do waterfalls work into that image. To complete the picture, it might be seen that waterfalls are instances in time that seem to last longer or shorter than the clock passage of time.

we may be the only two people on this forum!)
That may be. We could be logged in as all the other people.

It seems to me that we can't answer this question to fred's satisfaction via definitions and it is an extra-linguistic query, firmly in the Philosophy/Epistemology area.
The people in that “area” make up their own words or give new meanings to existing words to describe their ideas.

But I'm in favor of a broad charter for TFDLFs, so onward and upward. From my point-of-view, none of the questions above are difficult at all: we all know (to the extent we know anything) what meaning means--we just can't express this knowledge in a way that fred has accepted; words do have meaning; the question of how language works is larger than this topic;
If I am part of this “we”, then there is no “we all” who knows. So, the flaccid acceptance of the meaning of “Meaning” does not exist.

I don't know what "wavering middle ground of meaning" means;
Why don’t you know what “wavering middle ground” means?

and we all use words that have more than one meaning all the time and we (most of the time) make some kind of sense.
How does that work?

It's one of the good things about having such big brains.
Elephants?





moniba
Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2009 6:47:12 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/18/2009
Posts: 6
Neurons: 18
Location: Pakistan
MEANING:1.Defining or describing a Word IN TERM OF WORDS. 2.WORD /WORDS,WHICH CAN BE USE INSTEAD OF ANOTHER WORD/WORDS ,BUT GIVE SAME SENSE .
3.A WORD TO EXPRESS THE WORD
fred
Posted: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:55:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
moniba wrote:
MEANING:1.Defining or describing a Word IN TERM OF WORDS. 2.WORD /WORDS,WHICH CAN BE USE INSTEAD OF ANOTHER WORD/WORDS ,BUT GIVE SAME SENSE .
3.A WORD TO EXPRESS THE WORD


Yes, the intent is to leave linear thought for circular to see what we can find.
fred
Posted: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:23:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2009
Posts: 1,475
Neurons: 4,457
Location: United States
moniba wrote:
MEANING:1.Defining or describing a Word IN TERM OF WORDS. 2.WORD /WORDS,WHICH CAN BE USE INSTEAD OF ANOTHER WORD/WORDS ,BUT GIVE SAME SENSE .
3.A WORD TO EXPRESS THE WORD


OK, let's follow your thought and see where it takes us:

Meaning: Significance
Significance: Meaning
Meaning: Intent
Intent: Meaning
Meaning: Goal
Goal: Purpose
Purpose: Intention
Intention: Import
Import: Meaning
Meaning: Gist
Gist: Significance
Significance: Meaning

The circles continue as long as you have patience.

So you see, the dictionary is circular in itself. There is no foundational definition that all other definitions can be based. If there is no foundation to meaning, how can we talk about meaning?
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