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Politics have no relation to morals. Options
Daemon
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:00:00 AM
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Politics have no relation to morals.

Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527)
Carmelo
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:12:20 AM
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YEs. And religious morals have no relation to politics.Brick wall
Christine
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:31:55 AM
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This is a sad statement because he is right.
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:33:53 AM
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My college had a saying - I can't remember the latin but the translation was "Laws without morals are vain."
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:34:32 AM
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My college had a saying - I can't remember the latin but the translation was "Laws without morals are vain."
dsturges
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 10:34:35 AM
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disagree. The politics of a nation are the nation's morals, albeit adulterated morals, due to the inefficiencies of majority rule. Religiousness often is the force which directs the nations moral compasses concerning political issues. How could that not be so? Are morality and personal conviction not at the heart of every political debate?
thahab
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:38:51 AM
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I personally agree with Machiavelli... Politics have no relation to morals because it's a dirty game!!
Hupomone
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:45:02 AM
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I suppose there are some decent politicians out there but, mostly, politics is about money. The offices we fill by "election" are actually bought and paid for by rich, controlling people. [In my opinion,] morals have about as much to do with today's legislation as light might have with the nature of darkness...zilch.
sacsayhuaman
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:47:05 PM
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Breakfast has no relation to dinner.Dancing Doing a paraphrase of cited statement, out of context.
bomber
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 5:08:50 PM
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Which politics did he mention?
ChildofTheKing
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 5:36:55 PM
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If Machievelli's connotation of "relation" coincides with the conventional denotation of the term, methinks he is most certainly accurate.

In order for two things to relate, there must be a resemblance. And unless "politics" is a crocodile and "morals" is an alligator, the two know little of each other.
Geeman
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:44:30 PM

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I don't know... it's hard to say there is absolutely no relationship. It certainly seems like all political systems are based on some moral conclusion, even if it turns out that most people under that political system don't agree with the moral conclusion, or even if that moral conclusion is itself pretty far out there.

Our boy here was a pretty cynical guy, though, so maybe he's saying there is a fundamental disconnect between the politics and the morals upon which they are based. This a hard one to really get behind because it seems like so much of his other comments, which were by and large meant to rationalize the predations of those in power.... People often fundamentally confuse these basic relationships because they are blurred to begin with. "Mac" was looking for a job, so he was pretty anxious to say what Italian provincial rulers wanted to hear....

I guess if one used as a definition of "morals" that it required no action and one of "politics" that it required no basis in experience then it makes a certain sense. Those are pretty rarified definitions, though. I don't think it bears much resemblance to the real world.
lostinasia
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:15:47 PM
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Morals are taught by the church and various other belief systems and enforced by politics.
ChildofTheKing
Posted: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:34:02 PM
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Machiavelli, though unfavorable to most, may not be given the benefit of the doubt.

Having served the republic for the span of about 14 years, he interfaced with the most influential leaders of Europe, and grew to understand the reality behind politics. In short, the reality that human nature (despite that it is cloaked in the garment of politics/government) a very prone to betraying honor and scruples, when money is involved.

His candid articulation of the same is often misunderstood by the masses. A reading of his work, "The Discourses," is highly advisable, as it provide a keener insight into Machiavelli's ideology on political reality.
UserName
Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 4:32:26 PM
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Look at his painting... it looks like a recent painting of a regular guy in a tee shirt. I had to look twice.
tanya
Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 5:14:11 PM
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Politics and Morals have different worlds. Politics is a dirty game just what was mentioned above while morals is contradicting to the word dirty game since morals is for virtuous deeds.
LeadPal
Posted: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:18:44 PM
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It would have been better for him to say "Politics should have no relation to morals"; better, at least, according to his theories in The Prince, which hold no virtue above ruthlessness.
Drew
Posted: Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:00:53 PM
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I believe Machiavelli is referring to the nature of self-promotion and self-preservation that is at the core politics. These things often take priority over most anything else involved in politics, morals included.
DarkMoon
Posted: Sunday, November 29, 2009 2:20:08 PM

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In my opinion, Machiavelli is not completely right in his statement. Politics of any nation is determined and established on the base of moral standards characteristic of a particular society. Obviously, it all goes along with the universal ethical values incorporated into laws and the political sphere. I guess it might be impossible to indicate politics not being supported by morals, and completely deprived of them.

Well, actually I rather avoid listening to incohorent debates of politicians in my country. However, I haven't heard yet any discussion, where moral standards haven't been raised. On the contrary, they are solidly leaned on them.

In return, I think we should distinguish politics and politicians. If we can't discern morals in politicians' deplorable conduct, it doesn't mean there are no morals in politics at all.



will
Posted: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 9:48:58 AM
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dsturges and DaekMoon have it right.

Most of the rest is conflation of 'morals' with 'my good morals'.

IMO
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