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Moral and religion? Options
pljames
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 5:13:50 PM
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Think
If morals come from Christianity how can a non Christian obey or believe them? Paul
Epiphileon
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:22:04 PM

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Christian morals come from Christianity, but that is not the only moral code, nor the only source. My morals are based in naturalism, and are a-theistic.
Spiral
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 7:30:45 PM

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pljames wrote:

Think
If morals come from Christianity how can a non Christian obey or believe them? Paul


Morality is not confined to Christianity, so a non-Christian can be morally pure but not holy or sanctified or cleansed of sin, by virtue of not having a quickening, eternal life-giving faith in Christ as their Saviour.

You ask a question that requires a biblical answer, so here is what the Bible says.

Colossians 1:19-23
(19) For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell;
(20) And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
(21) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has He reconciled
(22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in His sight:
(23) If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


By the way, knowing what the Bible says, and understanding the meaning of its content is helpful in bringing a person to faith, but these are not sufficient for living by faith..., this requires that the Word of God be put into effect.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:33:13 AM
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The Christian '10 Commandments' are universal right from wrong and I would assume would cross most religious boundaries, or very little in my case.
Epiphileon
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 4:55:29 AM

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Tovarish wrote:
The Christian '10 Commandments' are universal right from wrong and I would assume would cross most religious boundaries, or very little in my case.


Hi Tov, actually they are the Jewish (maybe)* 10 commandments, which became incorporated into modern Christianity although, there is some argument, in rarefied circles, as to whether they are absolutely, technically, applicable to disciples of Christ. That argument is purely an academic theology type debate though, as any disciple of Christ, would adhere to them by default of living in the spirit.

I do not think the first three transfer very well between religions, although many religious gods do demand exclusivity.

You do bring up a good question though, what exactly does the OP mean by Christian morality? All of proper Christian morality I would think would proceed from the text of the Gospel wherein Jesus is reported to say, "If any man would come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me." (paraphrased from memory) or perhaps, and this is a paraphrase of another verse that would result in the same thing, "You must trust in, rely on, and adhere to, Jesus Christ, as the absolute lord of your life." More recognizably as "If you believe in your heart, and confess with your mouth, Jesus as lord."



*There is some argument that the substance of many of the commandments preexisted the book of Exodus in other religious texts.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 5:02:10 AM
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Really Epi?, my bible studies leave a lot to be desired, and the commandments were at least common sense.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 5:04:55 AM

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My atheistic precept is "Don't be a dick!"
I think it covers well the Ten Commandments and the Sermon of the Mount.
towan52
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 9:53:36 AM
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I think if you use the mantra "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" you will not go far wrong in terms of morality - in business or politics you'd be screwed! Paticipants of BDSM may have a problem... but then again...Whistle
Teluu
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:29:03 AM

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If there are morals in christianity, catholic priests won't molest children and use them for medical experiments without their knowledge.
ithink140
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:26:46 AM
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You are right to be angry Teluu, but not right to tar all folk with the same brush... not that I am rushing to the defence of priests, but if I rob someone does that make all people robbers.. well does it? If some are immoral does that make all such?
ithink140
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 11:35:45 AM
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There were 610 laws in the Mosaic Law given to Moses and the Ten Commandments underpinned them all.

Jesus said, however, that the whole law and the prophets were summed up in two laws: You must the Lord your God with your whole heart mind strength and soul and your neighbour as yourself.

That summation of the old law formed the basis of the Law of Christ, and applies to all mankind and not just to Jews. The Mosaic Law Covenant came to an end at the death of Christ but was kept in force until Pentecost, at which time it was no longer legally binding among any peoples. A new covenant had come into force. Jesus spoke of it at the Last Supper.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:56:33 PM
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We are having a Royal Commission into sexual assaults against children in institutions, including all the churches over many, many years.

The Catholic churches are in the witness stand at the moment, do as I say, not as I do.

The RC, not Roman Catholic, but Royal Commission is shining the light on these old spiders.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:31:03 PM

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From my perspective, it's respect and consideration. With these two, nothing more is needed for a moral code.
excaelis
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:46:21 PM

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Morals are religious. Ethics are human.

@Teluu : If there were either morals or ethics in Islam Syrians would not be killing children for sectarian reasons. Wanna throw mud ?
Absurdicuss
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 8:23:03 PM
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The concept of right and wrong was known long before the Bible was penned.
Tovarish
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 10:08:50 PM
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We are having a Royal Commission into sexual assaults against children in institutions, including all the churches over many, many years.

The Catholic churches are in the witness stand at the moment, do as I say, not as I do.

The RC, not Roman Catholic, but Royal Commission is shining the light on these old spiders.
Tovarish
Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:32:43 AM
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Dammed if I know how I did that.

Medical experiments?, please explain.
Akkuratix
Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:39:15 AM
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Location: Kemi, Lapponia, Finland
The less man is depending upon the authorities, the higher is his/hers level of the morality.
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