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The state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen. Options
Daemon
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:00:00 AM
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The state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)
dusty
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:04:01 AM

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I'll have to revisit my opinion of Nietzsche, it's scary how he described American Intelligence agents, the ones with little feet and little thumbs, and the work they ought not be doing because of inferiority complexes. While they are not busy stealing lyrics written by Bon Scott or harassing innocent citizens when there is no war they can get away with instigating, they are most definitely settling scores for pissing contests (unbeknownst to ones who out-pissed them for distance) and had they known some people would die as well as some unjustly incarcerated for something as stupid as pissing for distance they would have let the little megalomaniacs win.


How different would the world be today if there were not a bunch of butt hurt agents who didn't have the courage to speak their minds, and cowered behind the excuse of having to behave "civilized" yet went ahead and worked out inferiority related aggression which is so blatantly obvious now decades later when the truth catches up to their shoddy "evidence" (which was always nothing more the video recording before anyone ever dreamed any person could ever be so mentally flawed they would waste all that time and money producing hoaxes) How many would have just let them go on ahead and believed they were superior, that size really does not have anything to do with satisfaction.

If only we had known that life was a competition, and didn't smoke em like a cheap cigar, would the masses today be aware of the truth? Would they be able to keep their ideas without having to accept a consolation prize after having their work stolen by the same associated group of people who sent Paul to settle the score against Christ, who by doing nothing more than teaching by example how to live up to the mandatory level of responsibility required of Human Beings in Heaven?

I wish someone would have taught basic vendetta mathematics to those knuckleheads way back when, as what Christ actually did to them was a blessing, nothing that needed any score settling, as He wasn't trying to take anything away from them, He was clarifying the offer, annunciating the true gift that was given freely to this family of living souls, so that they could understand that if they would just open their eyes, the highest Kingdom of Heaven they were not even consciously aware they were living in, could be theirs forever and ever, celebrating in God's Celestial Glory that was shared with them, but these geniuses had their own plan evidently

edited after thought -- I am sure I took it out of context as I have no idea the context of his words, but for once I have to say "Right on! Nietzsche! Sing the Truth out loud until all the lies are gone, and order restored to this World's imperfect perfection, the same way Haley's Comet models in real life and to scale, the motion of a covalent bond between two systems."

Tell em who put those words into your mouth Nietzsche!
thar
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:13:22 AM

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Daemon wrote:
The state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)


Umm, did he actually write this, in English? If it is someone's translation then it is not actually his quote. The language sounds rather unlikely for a nineteenth century German, unless he was really confident in English (or learnt it from someone with a lithp) Whistle
Thommy
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:15:21 AM
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What does "lieth" mean?
I have never heard or read this term before.
Even the "dict.cc" doesn't know this word.
I only would guess its a synonym for "lie".
pedro
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 5:43:00 AM
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Thus Spoke Zarathustra ch.Xl The New Idol



Somewhere there are still peoples and herds, but not with us, my brethren: here there are states.

A state? What is that? Well! open now your ears unto me, for now will I say unto you my word concerning the death of peoples.

A state, is called the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly lieth it also; and this lie creepeth from its mouth: "I, the state, am the people."

It is a lie! Creators were they who created peoples, and hung a faith and a love over them: thus they served life.

Destroyers, are they who lay snares for many, and call it the state: they hang a sword and a hundred cravings over them.

Where there is still a people, there the state is not understood, but hated as the evil eye, and as sin against laws and customs.

This sign I give unto you: every people speaketh its language of good and evil: this its neighbour understandeth not. Its language hath it devised for itself in laws and customs.

But the state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen.
False is everything in it; with stolen teeth it biteth, the biting one. False are even its bowels.

Confusion of language of good and evil; this sign I give unto you as the sign of the state. Verily, the will to death, indicateth this sign! Verily, it beckoneth unto the preachers of death!

Many too many are born: for the superfluous ones was the state devised!

See just how it enticeth them to it, the many-too-many! How it swalloweth and cheweth and recheweth them!

"On earth there is nothing greater than I: it is I who am the regulating finger of God"--thus roareth the monster. And not only the long-eared and short-sighted fall upon their knees!

.........................................................................................



This read as exciting stuff in my teens. Unfortunately Nietche's vision of a nation of liberated supermen is a rather frightening romantic myth. It by its egotistical nature allows no room for compassion: Weakness is not tolerated. No wonder that Hitler embraced it whilst writing 'Mein Kampf' in prison. In his defence one might note that Nietzsche elswhere warned of the dangers of a weak nation falling prey to malign dictatorship. Nietzsche had an aristocratic rule in mind rather than a dictatorship.
thar
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:49:24 AM

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Thommy wrote:
What does "lieth" mean?
I have never heard or read this term before.
Even the "dict.cc" doesn't know this word.
I only would guess its a synonym for "lie".


it is just the Old and Middle English way of saying everything, with inflected endings from its Germanic roots, before English dropped them for all except the third person singular (and changed þū to thou, and then to you)

something like

I lie
thou liest
he lieth

I have
thou hast
he hath

I say
thou sayest
he sayeth / saieth

very Biblical language (KJV biblical)! That was why I was so sceptical that Nietzshe actually wrote that!
ithink140
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 7:22:05 AM
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I think Thar he is writing in the style of a character and not as himself.
thar
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:24:30 AM

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Hey, where I am studying, thou wouldst not believe but there be folk herein who talketh so. Well, almost. Well, not at all actually, but it would be fun Whistle
My head may study science Think , and my heart digs rocks Dancing , but a piece of my soul would lie in the department of Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic Angel
Miriam...
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:35:13 AM

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I think that when a people exist for The State--an end in itself, rather than, a State that exists for the people--a means to an end, there exists a State (and state) of which Nietzsche writes about.
Bully_rus
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:30:08 AM
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War with a state lead to the superstate - communism, fascism.
Verbatim
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:54:33 PM
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Miriam... wrote:
I think that when a people exist for The State--an end in itself, rather than, a State that exists for the people--a means to an end, there exists a State (and state) of which Nietzsche writes about.


Well said, Miriam, your reading of the quotation has been discerning, and the essence of it was not lost on you.
Verbatim
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 12:58:02 PM
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Daemon wrote:
The state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)


Here is the link for the whole chapter from "Thus Spake Zarathustra" where this quotation comes from:http://4umi.com/nietzsche/zarathustra/11
Andrey R.
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 2:48:00 PM

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thar wrote:
Daemon wrote:
The state lieth in all languages of good and evil; and whatever it saith it lieth; and whatever it hath it hath stolen.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900)


Umm, did he actually write this, in English? If it is someone's translation then it is not actually his quote. The language sounds rather unlikely for a nineteenth century German, unless he was really confident in English (or learnt it from someone with a lithp) Whistle




I am guess that this is from Thomas Common's translation (regarded by modern critics to be dated and somewhat awful). I recommend Walter Kaufmann's translation.
Verbatim
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 3:03:10 PM
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Joined: 10/3/2012
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Thommy wrote:
What does "lieth" mean?
I have never heard or read this term before.
Even the "dict.cc" doesn't know this word.
I only would guess its a synonym for "lie".


It is an archaic form of the verb "lie", third person. Here:http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lieth
dusty
Posted: Thursday, March 28, 2013 6:05:36 PM

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It would be fairly simple to know if he meant lie as in lay, lie as in dishonesty, or lithe as in malleable. If he originally wrote in German, it was written in a fairly strict dictionary-like tongue.

Fortunately, it doesn't really seem to matter, at least to me, because it seems clear he is upset with the foolish denial that only's known as society's denial.

If everyone knows the facts, what's the point of pretending they didn't happen?

It's a different story altogether when the facts are something that can be forgotten because it was a mistake and not one that anybody is going to consciously decide to make again. Those types of mistakes do nobody any good to be a constant peripheral thought

but Nietzsche sounds like he is upset about the means and ends that are both used by not a true governing body, but a governing body who has no authority or lost all authority and all right to govern once they began attempting to control the People under pretenses they refused to be honest about.

Government is a sacred position, and those undeserving of it for any reason cannot persist. They problem is that these days, those in charge are not only in denial about just the means but also the very end is justified. Their end is based on misinterpretations which have now been so distorted that the end really is THE END

it doesn't make it any easier to accept when the agencies of ever controlling and undeserving government, stick their hand in everything, often for no other reason than the fact that they can, just to let you know they can do whatever they want. Mostly it's about them being bitter that they are not God, so they are forced to live in a world where the only place they can feel like God -- amongst those they can fool into thinking they are God-- well they're not foolin me!

The only relief to individuals who are the People, is the comical thought that not only are they not God, those jokers aren't even the devil, in reality they are just nobody men who believe they want to be God, but because they are so utterly confused with themselves they don't realize the name they are taking is not the Glorious One, but the abominable

things can always be parsed down to right and wrong, yet because that realm is something we cannot clearly see, the only way to insure we stay on the right side of the line is through full disclosure, complete honesty coming from someone who knows who they are, thinking is not equal to knowing

As far as translations go, I've heard Robert Hunter has translated some Rilke, I wonder what he would say about Nietzsche if he speaks German?
izopnyde
Posted: Friday, April 19, 2013 1:01:40 AM
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Lieth is possive. Ex: He does lie, he has lied, etc.
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