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It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that... Options
Daemon
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:00:00 AM
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It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.

James Madison (1751-1836)
Ray
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 3:12:46 AM

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Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Anyone ever read the tax laws of Australia in their entirety? I'll bet not.
early_apex
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:15:07 AM
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The only people who have read the U.S. tax laws are those people looking for a way to evade taxes.

This quote by Madison is amazing. He could never have forseen the ease with which word processors can copy, paste and assemble reams of verbiage. Based on the fact that I cannot understand the instruction booklet for U.S. Income Taxes, and feel compelled to pay someone else to calculate them, we may be trending toward utter incomprehensibility.
Joseph Glantz
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:02:26 AM
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There is something to be said for re-writing the laws every fifty years to put in plain English all the exceptions to and adjustments to the laws that naturally happen over a law's lifetime.
fred
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:14:41 AM
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It makes lawyers alot of money.
Christine
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:07:38 AM
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Sorta like the propose health insurance bill?
milap4physio
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:36:37 AM
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whenever a situation arises, and they dont have proper solution for that - a new law come into existence. This in a way is helpful so that from next time if the same type of situation is met , one can always go back, find the law and give justice for such situations. No doubt what Sir James Madison have said is true and that people dont have much knowledge about the laws until they actually face any situation and refer the law or become aware of that.
ssf
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 11:29:58 AM
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Christine Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:07:38 AM
Sorta like the propose health insurance bill?
Applause
And the "Stimulus Bill" which no one took to time to read, Cap & Trade, and the Tax Code??? I think they use babble, unlanguage, words that sound intelligent and anyone who dares to question their "wisdom" is treated like and uneducated imbecile. Where are you James Madison when we need you?
Marissa Le Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 12:59:27 PM
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I think the most intelligent minds of the world have this amazing ability to speak simply, in simple terms, in which everything that exists in the world, in all its complexities,can be understood by children and the most humble among us.
nw3bk3y
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:55:48 PM
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With the internet, we have thomas.gov so we can read legislation as well as the "reliable" political blogs that will point out one or two aspects of a bill or law that justifies or detracts from it.
will
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:44:46 PM
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Joined: 6/29/2009
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Joseph Glantz wrote:
There is something to be said for re-writing the laws every fifty years to put in plain English all the exceptions to and adjustments to the laws that naturally happen over a law's lifetime.


Depends on who's idea of plain English... we could end up with:

itl B of lil avail 2 d ppl dat d laws r md by men of thr own choiC f d laws B so lg dat dey cnot B read, or so confusn dat dey cnot B sussed.

Not talking
Drew
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:18:47 PM
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fred wrote:
It makes lawyers alot of money.


Very true. I think this fact is one of the best arguments for middling the language used in legal jargon, so that regular people can actually understand the laws that are governing their lives.
Starr
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:24:48 PM
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Anyone try to read the laws the US Congress writes?
Christine
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:57:32 PM
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ssf wrote:
Christine Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:07:38 AM
Sorta like the propose health insurance bill?
Applause
And the "Stimulus Bill" which no one took to time to read, Cap & Trade, and the Tax Code??? I think they use babble, unlanguage, words that sound intelligent and anyone who dares to question their "wisdom" is treated like and uneducated imbecile. Where are you James Madison when we need you?


What is "unlanguage"?
Christine
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:08:23 PM
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Joined: 4/3/2009
Posts: 3,917
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Drew wrote:
fred wrote:
It makes lawyers alot of money.


Very true. I think this fact is one of the best arguments for middling the language used in legal jargon, so that regular people can actually understand the laws that are governing their lives.


About lawyers....

One lawyer got a new Lexus. He parked in front of his business. Just when he opened his door, a truck came too close and tear the door off. The attorney was swearing and yelling. A policeman was the accident. He went to the attorney and told him to calm down. The attorney was still yelling and swearing so the policeman said, "Do you realize that you are missed your arm?" The attorney yelled, "F---, my Rolex!!"
Christine
Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 6:09:41 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/3/2009
Posts: 3,917
Neurons: 15,842
Christine wrote:
Drew wrote:
fred wrote:
It makes lawyers alot of money.


Very true. I think this fact is one of the best arguments for middling the language used in legal jargon, so that regular people can actually understand the laws that are governing their lives.


About lawyers....

One lawyer got a new Lexus. He parked in front of his business. Just when he opened his door, a truck came too close and tear the door off. The attorney was swearing and yelling. A policeman was the accident. He went to the attorney and told him to calm down. The attorney was still yelling and swearing so the policeman said, "Do you realize that you are missed your arm?" The attorney yelled, "F---, my Rolex!!"


oops

A policeman saw the accident. Brick wall
Demosth
Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:28:54 AM
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Location: United States
Hell yes, James Madison, why isn't there a good beer named after you!?
susanstar1234
Posted: Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:34:48 AM
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Joined: 6/12/2009
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Location: Lebanon
incoherence is when people don't know the family or what it means to have constitutional state laws that allow that person freedom to their people, and those are to decide..
LeadPal
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:57:10 PM
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Joined: 7/26/2009
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Location: Beyond the Impossible
will wrote:
Depends on who's idea of plain English... we could end up with:

itl B of lil avail 2 d ppl dat d laws r md by men of thr own choiC f d laws B so lg dat dey cnot B read, or so confusn dat dey cnot B sussed.

You, sir, have made me lol. Applause
TB
Posted: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:06:13 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/2009
Posts: 1,437
Neurons: 4,277
Location: America
Christine wrote:
"...What is "unlanguage"?



I'm not sure what "unlanguage" might be but please permit me to offer a possible example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-5F_7DwPpo






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