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That The Town Soon Had It That Options
Volcano
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:01:07 PM
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He used language so severe about the young man that the town soon had it that Charley had borrowed a lot of money from Champ.

Could you please explain the first and second that in this sentence? The second one defines it?
RuthP
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 3:13:24 PM

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Yes. I believe the sentence would also be correct if the second 'that' were omitted, but the second 'that' helps make it obvious on first reading that 'it' is 'Charley had borrowed . . . .'
peterhewett
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:17:52 AM
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He used language so severe about the young man that the town soon had it, that Charley had borrowed a lot of money from Champ.

Put a comma after 'it.'
Cathie8653
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:04:49 AM
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Volcano wrote:
He used language so severe about the young man that the town soon had it that Charley had borrowed a lot of money from Champ.

Could you please explain the first and second that in this sentence? The second one defines it?



it would have been clearer to understand if the author had inserted the word: 'understood' between soon and the second 'that', I suspect the author is trying to use 'had it' in place of 'understood'.Think
Can top
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:22:52 PM
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Cathie8653 wrote:
it would have been clearer to understand if the author had inserted the word: 'understood' between soon and the second 'that', I suspect the author is trying to use 'had it' in place of 'understood'.Think


I think that it is completely understandable but I agree with you Cathie that 'had it' is another way to say 'understood/realized/came to believe'.

He used language so severe about the young man that the town soon understood/realized that Charley had borrowed a lot of money from Champ.

Now what does that make the 2nd 'that'?
Christine
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:31:26 PM
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I thought "had it" is an angry expression about patience is almost lost.
early_apex
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:40:51 PM
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Christine wrote:
I thought "had it" is an angry expression about patience is almost lost.


The quote sounds very British to me, so that would explain the difference in meaning.
PhibesMD
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:06:18 PM
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That sentence is certainly a bit confusing. Personally, I would have written that sentence like this: He used language so severe about the young man that the town soon had it: Charley had borrowed a lot of money from Champ.

It defines clearly what the town had realized, right? What do you guys and gals think?
Hlophe
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:12:47 PM
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...the town soon had it (= the town gossip was) that Charley etc. "had it" in this sentence refers to gossip but "hat it" as Christine mentions means I'm fed up -- as in the sentence : "I've had it with this situation."
Romany
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:53:46 AM
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The nuance with "had it" in examples like the one under discussion,however, is: - to believe erroneously.

It is a usage very common in Victorian English and much used by Dickens. It originated even further back however so those familiar with Austen or the Brontes; Fielding or DeFoe will also have come across it used it this manner.

The sentence would therefore carry a more subtle meaning: The object of the sentence "He" - rationally or not - does not like Charley. He uses pejorative language about Charley so forcefully that soon the entire town comes to believe badly of Charley...BUT ITS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE.

Its is still used today amongst older or regional Brits. in such ways as "He WILL have it that I behaved badly at the Christmas Party" where the speaker is convinced that this is not the case.

Confusingly perhaps, it CAN also simply mean "I was told by" or "I learnt it from" e.g. "I had it from the man himself!" but, once again, this usage usually is employed when there is either room for doubt or one is open to correction: "You mean its not true? But I had it from the man himself! What a scoundrel!"

Does this clarify or confuse?
peterhewett
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:33:16 AM
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early apex posted

The quote sounds very British to me, so that would explain the difference in meaning.


Peter responded.

Actually very unbritish EP...I thought it very American

I would have written something similar to this :

'His language about the young man was so severe, that it soon became clear to the town that Charley had borrowed heavily from Champ.'


Volcano
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:17:20 AM
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It is American
RuthP
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:19:47 AM

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It is American, but not used much in casual conversation. Probably was more common before the middle of the 20th century. And yes, many people would have trouble with the sentence because they would try to use Christine's definition of 'had it' as in "I've had it with your complaining!"
risadr
Posted: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:46:36 AM
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"It," in this sentence, refers to the town's knowledge that Charley had borrowed a lot of money.
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