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Posted: Saturday, June 2, 2012 7:28:18 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/2/2012
Posts: 711
Neurons: 2,076
Taliesin ap Elphin wrote:
But seriously - if I ever say something offensive, don't hesitate to slap me around.

I'll say the same goes for me, up to a point. Sometimes I know when it's time to turn the other cheek, sometimes I don't.
Ms. Be, my post referenced your feelings that JJ should just leave, and that this wasn't his topic to debate: I realize I'm not getting your words right here, but I'm a bit lazy and didn't copy and paste, which might have been the right thing to do.
As you acknowledge, I did start the topic. I put in here, where it most likely belongs. I did not ask permission to do so, and I don't need yours to continue to post or read here. Neither does JJ. He has my approval, and so do you, and so does anyone who posts here: not that that matters, I have no authority, only my opinions. That was my point, that was the reasoning in asking if I had posted under the wrong category. I am here, and it is here, and as JJ said, until someone scurries out from their place of hiding and, in a god-like manner, says, "thou shalt not."
Now don't be offended at my use of harsh words: you are, in my opinion, a biblical scholar. You are open to many other Books of the bible than some here, and I approve of that. This topic, and the one concerning dogs, I feel to be running along a similar line. I consider the books of The Apocrypha, (if I've spelled that right,) to be given due consideration, and I am pleased that you mention other sources of wisdom including the words which refer to Mary, I will be quite delighted to read those words, as I believe it makes more sense to read all of the works of Christianity, and not be compelled to accept only those words which a council of Men deemed relevant, or even tolerated. Now, do you see what I'm saying? You obviously are very intelligent, and more open-minded than many people, so why take offense NOW when I, or anyone else, chooses to differ with you?
Let everyone speak. I have been pleased with a few of JJ's comments, whether I agreed with them or not: that is not the point. And I only continue bringing up JJ because you chose to single him out. I could mention some others, but there is no need to bring them into this particular comment.
To my mind, you have contributed more here than anyone else. You have given me, for instance, a number of interesting things to delve into: and yes, JJ chooses, for reasons only he knows, to be a bit cryptic. I can't say why, and can't even speculate. Some people irritate some of us, some do not, and no one here has, of yet, irritated me. Frustrated? Yes, several people have frustrated me in this discussion, and nothing I can ever say will change their minds one bit. As I consider this, though, I realize my statements should be rewritten to say that yes, you have irritated me slightly. At the same time you have informed me. Otherwise, I wouldn't be replying to you now.
Posted: Sunday, June 3, 2012 3:38:08 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,812
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan

Judge: [after Drummond asks the judge for permission to withdraw form the case] Colonel Drummond, what reasons can you possibly have?

Henry Drummond: [Indicates the crowd] Well, there are two hundred of them.
[Crowd reacts angrily]

Henry Drummond: And if that's not enough there's one more. I think my client has already been found guilty.

Matthew Harrison Brady: [Rises] Is Mr. Drummond saying that this expression of an honest emotion will in any way influence the court's impartial administration of the law?

Henry Drummond: I say that you cannot administer a wicked law impartially. You can only destroy, you can only punish. And I warn you, that a wicked law, like cholera, destroys every one it touches. Its upholders as well as its defiers.

Judge: Colonel Drummond...

Henry Drummond: Can't you understand? That if you take a law like evolution and you make it a crime to teach it in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools? And tomorrow you may make it a crime to read about it. And soon you may ban books and newspapers. And then you may turn Catholic against Protestant, and Protestant against Protestant, and try to foist your own religion upon the mind of man. If you can do one, you can do the other.

Because fanaticism and ignorance is forever busy, and needs feeding. And soon, your Honor, with banners flying and with drums beating we'll be marching backward, BACKWARD, through the glorious ages of that Sixteenth Century when bigots burned the man who dared bring enlightenment and intelligence to the human mind!

Judge: I hope counsel does not mean to imply that this court is bigoted.

Henry Drummond: Well, your honor has the right to hope.

Judge: I have the right to do more than that.

Henry Drummond: You have the power to do more than that.
[the Judge holds Drummond in contempt of court]

Posted: Sunday, June 3, 2012 10:30:04 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/13/2012
Posts: 1,770
Neurons: 5,765
That is an awesome dialogue AFB,

I especially like the fans (which remind me of what flame cells look like)

There has been a very well funded "crusade" which has waged war against people trying to understand the world we live in. What they based this war upon was essentially a verse that says something along the lines of:

God created man in his own image

I don't know how the thought was written in Ancient Greek, but I also have a hard time believing that what the Original Word said or meant was that evolution of man is not truth.

the new crusade not only misunderstand the scriptures, but they also misunderstand evolution to mean that man evolved from monkey.

Man evolved from life, we are all the living when our soul inhabits a host and all life, man included, did in fact evolve from life much much lower in the hierarchical level then that of the layman's term "monkey"

Mankind, just like everything else that is the immediately living, has evolved from ONE

which was the happening

from the beginning
Ms. B. Have
Posted: Monday, June 4, 2012 7:14:41 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 4/6/2012
Posts: 355
Neurons: 686
Thanks Taliesin for your punch, I needed that, but I'm too busy slapping myself around at the moment to help slapping you now without reason to slap.

I'm sorry, DavidScott, if I gave the impression that I want any authority to say who or what is welcome on this thread. Everyone is welcome here and free to write what he or she wants, and I hope we do not need any kind of inquisition here. The only problem I have had with the posts of JJ is, that he is deliberately insulting people here on a very arrogant and unfair way, only because the insulted do not share his opinion about what nonsense and no-nonsense is. When it comes to religion rationality, irrationality and emotions mix very quickly, specially when people who believe and take their religion very seriously have a disagreement. As you know some people give their hole life to their church, their God and their religion. For other people religion is complete irrelevant and it plays no role at all in their life. Even people who share the same religion can have complete opposite idea's an complete different interpretation of that same religion. What for one Christian can be a very serious aspect of his life as Christian, can be for another Christian totally insignificant, and because religion is in the first place a matter of believe, there are often no rational arguments for such a different point of view. Because of these aspects discussions about religious subjects, even about Adam and Eve, can become very quickly mixed up with emotions and irrational arguments, we cannot avoid that, without that a dispute about matters of believe is almost impossible. Because of this people who like to discus this kind of topics need the environment and the freedom to express themself in the way they want, even when that is sometimes more emotional than sensible. Professors who give lectures on university about the Bible, know this problem and can tell you that teaching the Bible is something complete different than teaching Homer or Shakespeare, because for many students the Bible is still the word of God and the most important guide for their personal life.

On a open forum like this the problem is that these sometimes very personal posts written by people who feel a close connection with God is read by people who think that it is a sign of intelligence and rationality to reject the concept of a living God completely. For those readers these personal confessions are in their opinion based on nonsense. This is very understandable and a rightful opinion, but gives that these people also the right to show their imaginary rationality to others in a supercilious (or is it supersillious?) and insulting way? Not as an input in the discussion but only as a comment like: “Owlee Mouses! You guys are purely hilarious.” without any reasonable argument or explantion to justify that opinion? Without arguments this is complete non-information no one can defend himself against, and because of that no more than an unwelcome insult, attacking peoples freedom of expression, in a thread like this, when it comes to their personal relation to God.

Taliesin called me blind, misguided and a heretic, as I called him fool, but this was said in a discussion in which we know each others arguments and have the possibility to reply to that with contra-arguments. In that case I do not consider such qualifications as insulting but as someone's opinion, open for discussion. But a negative opinion without explanation just dropped as a text bomb from outside into the arena, I only can take as insulting. In such a case I ask the person behind that opinion to show his face and take part of the discussion, so that we can talk about it, or just to fuck-off.

Posted: Monday, June 4, 2012 8:17:14 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/22/2011
Posts: 2,812
Neurons: 7,024
Location: Japan

There is a kind of creature called troll in some world.

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