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There lies at the back of every creed something terrible and hard for which the worshiper may one day be required to suffer. Options
Daemon
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:00:00 AM
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There lies at the back of every creed something terrible and hard for which the worshiper may one day be required to suffer.

E. M. Forster (1879-1970)
excaelis
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:22:39 AM

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Gym membership
jcbarros
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:29:30 AM

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That is the most terrible and hardest.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:59:03 AM
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Beneath the flounce and fluff of religion, there is always something that is ignorant, intolerant and cruel.
Jimbob
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:57:26 AM
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What I believe by E.M. Forster
Starting from them, I get a little order into the contemporary chaos. One must be fond of people and trust them if one is not to make a mess of life, and it is therefore essential that they should not let one down. They often do. The moral of which is that I must, myself, be as reliable as possible, and this I try to be. But reliability is not a matter of contract – that is the main difference between the world of personal relationships and the world of business relationships. It is a matter for the heart, which signs no documents, in other words, reliability is impossible unless there is natural warmth. Most men posses this warmth, though they often have bad luck and get chilled. Most of them, even when they are politicians, want to keep faith. And one can, at all events, show one’s little light here, one’s own little trembling flame, with the knowledge that it is not the only light shinning in the darkness, and not the only one which the darkness does not comprehend. Personal relations are despised today. They are regarded as bourgeois luxuries, as products of a time of fair weather which is now past, and we are urged to get rid of them, and dedicate ourselves to some movement or cause instead. I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. Such a choice may scandalise the modern reader, and he may stretch out his patriotic hand to the telephone at once ring the police. It would not have shocked Dante, though. Dante places Brutus and Cassius in his lower circle of Hell because they had chosen to betray their friend Julius Caesar rather than there country Rome. Probably one will not be asked to make such an agonising choice. Still, there lies at the back of ever creed something terrible and hard for which the worshipper may one day be required to suffer, and there is even a terror and a hardness in this creed of personal relationships, urbane and mild though it sounds. Love and loyalty to an individual can run counter to the claims of the state. When they do – down with the state, say I, which means that the state would down me.
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Dante: Italian: (1265–1321), was an Italian poet, prose writer, literary theorist, moral philosopher, and political thinker. He is best known for the monumental epic poem Commedia

Marcus Junius Brutus (early June, 85 BC – late October, 42 BC), often referred to as Brutus, was a politician of the late Roman Republic

Gaius Cassius Longinus (before 85 BC – April 20, 42 BC) was a Roman senator, a leading instigator of the plot to kill Julius Caesar, and the brother in-law of Marcus Junius Brutus.

Gaius Julius Caesar July 100 BC– 15 March 44 BC was a Roman general and statesman and a distinguished writer of Latin prose. He played a critical role in the gradual transformation of the Roman Republic into the Roman Empire.

Brutus and Cassius: Circle 9, Inferno 34 (XXXIV) (texas.edu)
Eternally eaten by Lucifer's three mouths are--from left to right-- Brutus, Judas, and Cassius (Inf. 34.61-7). Brutus and Cassius, stuffed feet first in the jaws of Lucifer's black and whitish-yellow faces respectively, are punished in this lowest region for their assassination of Julius Caesar (44 B.C.E.), the founder of the Roman Empire that Dante viewed as an essential part of God's plan for human happiness. Both Brutus and Cassius fought on the side of Pompey in the civil war. However, following Pompey's defeat at Pharsalia in 48 B.C.E., Caesar pardoned them and invested them with high civic offices. Still, Cassius continued to harbor resentment against Caesar's dictatorship and enlisted the aid of Brutus in a conspiracy to kill Caesar and re-establish the republic. They succeeded in assassinating Caesar but their political-military ambitions were soon thwarted by Octavian (later Augustus) and Antony at Philippi (42 B.C.E.): Cassius, defeated by Antony and thinking (wrongly) that Brutus had been defeated by Octavian, had himself killed by a servant; Brutus indeed lost a subsequent battle and took his life as well. For Dante, Brutus and Cassius' betrayal of Julius Caesar, their benefactor and the world's supreme secular ruler, complements Judas Iscariot's betrayal of Jesus, the Christian man-god, in the Bible. Judas, one of the twelve apostles, strikes a deal to betray Jesus for thirty pieces of silver; he fulfills his treacherous role--foreseen by Jesus at the Last Supper--when he later identifies Jesus to the authorities with a kiss; regretting this betrayal that will lead to Jesus' death, Judas returns the silver and hangs himself (Matthew 26:14-16; 26:21-5; 26:47-9; 27:3-5). Suffering even more than Brutus and Cassius, Dante's Judas is placed head-first inside Lucifer's central mouth, with his back skinned by the devil's claws (Inf. 34.58-63).

bourgeois
1. A person belonging to the middle class.
2. A person whose attitudes and behavior are marked by conformity to the standards and conventions of the middle class.
3. In Marxist theory, a member of the property-owning class; a capitalist.

Urbane : Polite, refined, and often elegant in manner.

creed
1. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) a concise, formal statement of the essential articles of Christian belief, such as the Apostles' Creed or the Nicene Creed
2. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) any statement or system of beliefs or principles
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Well, what do you reckon. Sounds to me like ‘you scratch my back I’ll scratch yours’ for some sort of gain. Which in reality is probably not to far of the mark in many aspects of life, business and politics being a prime example, one would imagine. I’ve posted more than I wanted to as I need to know what Forster is referring to exactly as I have heard some of these statements talked about here and there. I like the bit about the ‘little trembling flame’ sounds kinda cute. Thank god for electricity!. Myself I wonder whether the human race should be a lot more advanced than it is, you know, due to the dark ages maybe wasted people and resources fighting ridiculous wars. Imagine if all those resources and money had gone into space exploration we may have had another inhabitable planet by now, oh well, I guess that’s just the nature of the beast.








Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:44:56 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/10/2009
Posts: 1,647
Neurons: 4,678
I like this passage too.

"And one can, at all events, show one’s little light here, one’s own little trembling flame, with the knowledge that it is not the only light shinning in the darkness, and not the only one which the darkness does not comprehend."
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:09:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/2009
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Forster was not God. He could not possibly have known everything about every known faith or creed. But give a man celebrity status and a newspaper column or a microphone and he can say what he likes, and some people will believe him.
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