The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Why is it that when you awake to the world of realities you nearly always feel, sometimes very vividly, that the vanished... Options
Daemon
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:00:00 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/7/2009
Posts: 30,808
Neurons: 91,602
Location: Inside Farlex computers
Why is it that when you awake to the world of realities you nearly always feel, sometimes very vividly, that the vanished dream has carried with it some enigma which you have failed to solve?

Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881)
vadbes
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:20:32 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Location: United States, MI
Dreams and reality use two different languages
MTC
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:17:10 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2011
Posts: 2,780
Neurons: 8,606
Whither is fled the visionary gleam?
Where is it now, the glory and the dream?

Ode: Intimations of Immortality by William Wordsworth, (lines 52–57)
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:51:02 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
it think it usually has, beautiful, sad and true, feel like that especially for "failed" love
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:36:56 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
can someone point me to the specific source? i think its from "the idiot", but im not sure which chapter, im trying to find a good german translation of the quote
ccak47
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:02:20 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Location: China
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator wrote:
can someone point me to the specific source? i think its from "the idiot", but im not sure which chapter, im trying to find a good german translation of the quote


Its from The Idiot PART III Chapter X.
jcbarros
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:52:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 5/14/2010
Posts: 2,361
Neurons: 9,122
I´m not sure... :{
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:03:56 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
I think the answer to Dostoyevsky's query is that we attach too much importance to dreams. Are not dreams merely the mind re-adjusting or re-arranging itself during sleep?

Personally I do not think there is anything mystic or meaningful in the sleep wandering mind.
LandShark
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:19:31 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 3/13/2012
Posts: 3
Neurons: 9
Location: United States, TX
Isn't it like life itself. We seem to be hard wired to believe that there is something more, that there is always something more. Our innate dissatisfaction, our discontent reigns supreme. Perhaps he is blessed who is content with his lot, but our ambitious yearnings for more is what drives us to greatness, is what allows us to accomplish what cannot possibly be accomplished. If not for this enigmatic feeling that there is something we have missed, we'd all still be huddled around a fire in some cave, if even that. I'm reminded of the words to the song sung by that incomparable chanteuse, Peggy Lee: Is that all there is? If we don't ask this question, we'll never be able to even begin to see all that there is.
MTC
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:56:24 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/2011
Posts: 2,780
Neurons: 8,606
percivalpecksniff wrote:
I think the answer to Dostoyevsky's query is that we attach too much importance to dreams. Are not dreams merely the mind re-adjusting or re-arranging itself during sleep?

Personally I do not think there is anything mystic or meaningful in the sleep wandering mind.


Whatever dreams are mankind has historically attached great importance to them, starting with the Egyptians, Romans and Greeks. The Bible is replete with dreams and visions and their interpretation. Dreams motivate men to historic actions, Constantine's dream for example. The role they play in creativity and problem solving is well known. Take Keukle's discovery of the benzene ring, for instance. Does anyone living seriously doubt the significance of dreams, or as you quaintly put it, "the sleep wandering mind?" To dismiss dreams by saying there in nothing "meaningful" in them as you do is quite cavalier.

What is the basis for your opinion that man attaches too much importance to dreams and they lack meaning? What are the facts, arguments and authorities that support your opinion?
Jimbob
Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 9:24:24 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/2011
Posts: 162
Neurons: 486
Location: New Zealand
The Idiot : by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

The prince understood at last why he shivered with dread every time he thought of the three letters in his pocket, and why he had put off reading them until the evening.

When he fell into a heavy sleep on the sofa on the verandah, without having had the courage to open a single one of three envelopes, he again dreamed a painful dream, and once more that poor, "sinful" woman appeared to him. And again she gazed at him with tears sparking on her long lashes, and beckoned him after her; and again he awoke, as before, with the picture of her face haunting him.

He longed to get up and go to her at once -- but he COULD NOT. At length, almost in despair, he unfolded the letters, and began to read them.

These letters, too, were like a dream. We sometimes have strange, impossible dreams, contrary to all the laws of nature. When we awake we remember them and wonder at their strangeness. you remember, perhaps, that you were in full possession of your reason during this succession of fantastic images; even that you acted with extraordinary logic and cunning while surrounded by murders who hid their intentions and made great demonstrations of friendship, while waiting for an opportunity to cut your throat. You remember how you escaped them by some ingenious stratagem; then you doubted if they were really deceived, or whether they were only pretending not to know your hiding-place; then you thought of another plan and hoodwinked them once again. You remember all this quite clearly, but how is it that your reason calmly accepted all the manifest absurdities and impossibilities that crowed into your dream ? One of the murderers suddenly changed into a woman before your very eyes; then the woman was transformed into a hideous, cunning little dwarf; and you believed it, and accepted it almost as a matter of course -- while at the same time your intelligence seemed unusually keen, and accomplished miracles of cunning, sagacity, and logic ! Why is it that when you awake to the world of realities you nearly always feel, sometimes vividly, that the vanished dream has carried with it some enigma which you have failed to solve ? You smile at the extravagance of your dream, and yet you feel that this tissue of absurdity contained some real idea, something that belongs to your true life, -- something that exists, and has always existed, in your heart. you search your dream for some prophecy that you were expecting. It has left a deep impression upon you, joyful or cruel, but what it means, or what has been predicted to you in it, you can neither understand nor remember. --->
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Well what an interesting topic 'dreaming' I awoke suddenly was it real, I wish, depending on the type of dream, yes no or don't care, like liquid go with the flow perhaps :) lol. Someone once said to me don't read to much into a dream as it's just a reflection of your mood such as a nightmare could be interpreted as being worried. Although there is probably a degree of randomness about dreams aswell. I sort of Guess that Dostoyevsky might be referring to is can your dream be controlled (lucid dream) or is it outside the control of the dreamer. Or is it possible there is a degree of deja vu like I kinda new that was going to happen or wow this seems familiar to a certain extent to a dream I had some time ago. Once agian the individual person, imagination, dreams their dream whilst asleep or day-dreameing, cloud 9.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Dreams can have varying natures, such as frightening, exciting, magical, melancholic, adventurous, or sexual.

An enigma is a type of riddle generally expressed in radical or allegorical language that requires ingenuity and careful thought for its solution.

Dreamtime : In the animist framework of Australian Aboriginal mythology, The Dreaming is a sacred era in which ancestral Totemic Spirit Beings formed The Creation.

Martin Luther King's I Have A Dream Speech (J. F. Kennedy)
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:06:20 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
Posts: 57
Neurons: 171
Location: Germany
thanks ccak, found it now, nice example of terrible german translation, last part is translated to "which was mysterious to us" - completely ruining the point
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:27:58 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
MTC posted the following.
percivalpecksniff wrote:
I think the answer to Dostoyevsky's query is that we attach too much importance to dreams. Are not dreams merely the mind re-adjusting or re-arranging itself during sleep?

Personally I do not think there is anything mystic or meaningful in the sleep wandering mind

MTC then said: Whatever dreams are mankind has historically attached great importance to them, starting with the Egyptians, Romans and Greeks. The Bible is replete with dreams and visions and their interpretation. Dreams motivate men to historic actions, Constantine's dream for example. The role they play in creativity and problem solving is well known. Take Keukle's discovery of the benzene ring, for instance. Does anyone living seriously doubt the significance of dreams, or as you quaintly put it, "the sleep wandering mind?" To dismiss dreams by saying there in nothing "meaningful" in them as you do is quite cavalier.

What is the basis for your opinion that man attaches too much importance to dreams and they lack meaning? What are the facts, arguments and authorities that support your opinion?


My reply is thus:

It is not for me to defend my position for it is not me who claims that dreams are significant. It is for those who say there is a meaning to prove such.

As to Keluke he claims that his revelation was during a reverie or day dream, and not to a sleep dream. The difference is obvious since in a reverie or day dream one is conscious.

As to ‘dreams’ given by God that is paranormal and so therefore does not fit the bill.

With regard to the Greeks well one has only to look at their inventiveness in creating gods to see what imagination they had. Surely one should not give credence to their interpretations of dreams.

Over history and into our modern day charlatans have made use of man’s superstitious nature for monetary gain without a shred of substance.

I respectfully stand by what I said.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 11:40:41 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/1/2011
Posts: 1,523
Neurons: 3,404
Location: United Kingdom
Jimbob wrote:
The Idiot : by Fyodor Dostoyevsky...

The prince understood at last why he shivered with dread every time he thought of the three letters in his pocket, and why he had put off reading them until the evening.

When he fell into a heavy sleep on the sofa on the verandah, without having had the courage to open a single one of three envelopes, he again dreamed a painful dream, and once more that poor, "sinful" woman appeared to him. And again she gazed at him with tears sparking on her long lashes, and beckoned him after her; and again he awoke, as before, with the picture of her face haunting him.

He longed to get up and go to her at once -- but he COULD NOT. At length, almost in despair, he unfolded the letters, and began to read them.

These letters, too, were like a dream. We sometimes have strange, impossible dreams, contrary to all the laws of nature. When we awake we remember them and wonder at their strangeness. you remember, perhaps, that you were in full possession of your reason during this succession of fantastic images; even that you acted with extraordinary logic and cunning while surrounded by murders who hid their intentions and made great demonstrations of friendship, while waiting for an opportunity to cut your throat. You remember how you escaped them by some ingenious stratagem; then you doubted if they were really deceived, or whether they were only pretending not to know your hiding-place; then you thought of another plan and hoodwinked them once again. You remember all this quite clearly, but how is it that your reason calmly accepted all the manifest absurdities and impossibilities that crowed into your dream ? One of the murderers suddenly changed into a woman before your very eyes; then the woman was transformed into a hideous, cunning little dwarf; and you believed it, and accepted it almost as a matter of course -- while at the same time your intelligence seemed unusually keen, and accomplished miracles of cunning, sagacity, and logic ! Why is it that when you awake to the world of realities you nearly always feel, sometimes vividly, that the vanished dream has carried with it some enigma which you have failed to solve ? You smile at the extravagance of your dream, and yet you feel that this tissue of absurdity contained some real idea, something that belongs to your true life, -- something that exists, and has always existed, in your heart. you search your dream for some prophecy that you were expecting. It has left a deep impression upon you, joyful or cruel, but what it means, or what has been predicted to you in it, you can neither understand nor remember. --->
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Well what an interesting topic 'dreaming' I awoke suddenly was it real, I wish, depending on the type of dream, yes no or don't care, like liquid go with the flow perhaps :) lol. Someone once said to me don't read to much into a dream as it's just a reflection of your mood such as a nightmare could be interpreted as being worried. Although there is probably a degree of randomness about dreams aswell. I sort of Guess that Dostoyevsky might be referring to is can your dream be controlled (lucid dream) or is it outside the control of the dreamer. Or is it possible there is a degree of deja vu like I kinda new that was going to happen or wow this seems familiar to a certain extent to a dream I had some time ago. Once agian the individual person, imagination, dreams their dream whilst asleep or day-dreameing, cloud 9.
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Dreams can have varying natures, such as frightening, exciting, magical, melancholic, adventurous, or sexual.

An enigma is a type of riddle generally expressed in radical or allegorical language that requires ingenuity and careful thought for its solution.

Dreamtime : In the animist framework of Australian Aboriginal mythology, The Dreaming is a sacred era in which ancestral Totemic Spirit Beings formed The Creation.

Martin Luther King's I Have A Dream Speech (J. F. Kennedy)



Thanks for the info Jimbob
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.