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There is so much in the world for us all if we only have the eyes to see it, and the heart to love it, and the hand to gather... Options
Daemon
Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:00:00 AM
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There is so much in the world for us all if we only have the eyes to see it, and the heart to love it, and the hand to gather it to ourselves.

Lucy Maud Montgomery (1874-1942)
MTC
Posted: Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:33:58 PM
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Joined: 1/18/2011
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Daemon wrote:
There is so much in the world for us all if we only have the eyes to see it, and the heart to love it, and the hand to gather it to ourselves.

Lucy Maud Montgomery (1874-1942)


Yes, my children, there is so much... But, Montgomery's noble sentiments alone cannot feed the estimated 925,000,000 human mouths around the world who starve or are malnourished. You can actually give rice to the hungry millions and have fun at the same time by matching words with their definitions online at www.freerice.com, a global charity. I call it "food for thought."
floyd
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 12:02:41 PM
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Location: United States
Lucy Maud likes to talk tough, doesn't she?

But no Lucy Maud, gathering to ourselves doesn't work. Shame on you There is only "much in the world for us all" if we use our hands to give to others.

MTC, the "food for thought" is a fine idea. I'll send what I can.

In fact, if we all sent some free-rice money, we could fill more of those 925 million hungry mouths than any one of us alone.
Anybody want to try?

Thanks,

floyd
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 2:04:11 PM
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Joined: 2/1/2012
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Location: Germany
good points, indeed that sounds like randian white noise to me

ill certainly will try my whole life, but charity is no good if there still is the criminal cabal in power who seeks to harvest every bit of prosperity we create

her idea stops working in our modern societies led by such cabals because they will take everything you gather just to the point that you have enough to keep gathering for them
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 5:44:05 PM

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MTC wrote:
You can actually give rice to the hungry millions and have fun at the same time by matching words with their definitions online at www.freerice.com, a global charity.

A nice sentiment, but it is only that, a nice sentiment. And while some may be fed by simply giving it to them, a better purpose than waiting for food would be for them to alter their society so they might feed themselves.

We have learned much of the last hundred years or so about how to grow more food sustainably. There is no reason why almost any patch of earth cannot be made to grow food. Without the effort of the people to do so, however, it won’t happen. Handing them food will not motivate them to do it either. Sending them millions or billions of dollars in aid or food doesn’t do it either, as we saw in Haiti. The corrupt politicians merely pocket it.

Poverty can NEVER be eliminated, and wealth can NEVER be achieved by all. It is a logical, physical impossibility. All the wealthy societies of the Earth became so because of the effort to make it happen, and that can only occur when people fight for the freedom to be able to put forth that effort. That is the only way it will happen. Until the people of the third world countries tire of living as they do, nothing will change, and providing them with hand-outs simply because you see them as victims of some great global conspiracy will not help to any substantial degree. They will merely continue to be kept in their poverty.

However, it does give the propagandists among us a perpetual victim to use as a guilt club with which to beat others over the head. So I suppose there is some value in that after all. Where once they were seen as “Noble Savages”, they are now the “victims” of the “Imperial West”. As such, we are supposed to feel sorry for them, feed and clothe them, help them because they are the poor children of our abuse; helpless, ignorant, thewless, and it’s all, our fault!! Alas, and Oh, Woe!! (But you can feed them and have fun too by playing word games! That way, you can feel morally superior to your fellow, uncaring human beings, who won’t even play a game to feed a starving native.)

The irony and hypocrisy here is staggering.

ETA: This is not directed at any poster, but rather at the attitude of those who create websites such as the one mentioned here. I do not believe for an instant that playing a word game generates rice grains for anyone.

Hope1
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 9:27:57 PM
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Joined: 8/31/2011
Posts: 1,162
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This is the rest of the quote :

“There is so much in the world for us all if we only have the eyes to see it, and the heart to love it, and the hand to gather it to ourselves--so much in men and women, so much in art and literature, so much everywhere in which to delight, and for which to be thankful.”
― L.M. Montgomery
tags: anne-of-the-island

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/show/327681

I believe she was saying to count your blessings.

She was a great Canadian writer and I delighted as a young person to read her books and later as a young adult to watch them portrayed on TV.
Anne of Green Gables was perhaps the most delightful, precocious, little literary heroine I knew.
floyd
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 10:41:32 PM
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OK, Hope1, you've helped me see Lucy Maud differently. And how could I have thought that anyone named Lucy Maud be all bad. I'm from Kansas, which is similar in many ways and names to Canada, and I should have known better. So, thank you.

But FounDit, my friend, why does charity infuriate you so? If someone says that this is a good way to help to those who are starving, why shouldn't I give something? If you say, here's a good way to support people struggling for sustainable food production, I'll give something to that, too.

You say, FounDit, that: "All the wealthy societies of the Earth became so because of the effort to make it happen." I disagree. This country became wealthy because of its vast resources and its willingness to exploit them. Including, I think, our willingness to exploit slaves and slaughter Native Americans. China has had vast poverty for millennia -- have its people made less effort? I don't think you could show that.

I do feel sorry for the hungry and starving, and as I can, I will try to help them feed and clothe themselves. They are the poor waifs of our world -- helpless, ignorant, and I suspect they have no more faults than you and I.

That's it. I won't respond to your ugly sarcasm, except to ask that you please think about how much uncalled for your attack is. You act as if you're morally superior to someone like MTC, who is trying to do some small good works. If you are, you make it hard to see. You should think about apologizing to MTC, and think again before loosing your venom like this.

Peace,

floyd
floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:02:44 AM
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Joined: 2/1/2012
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Location: Germany
Quote:
Poverty can NEVER be eliminated, and wealth can NEVER be achieved by all. It is a logical, physical impossibility.

i think thats an irrational statement from the same realm of religious ones, we have developed a superior evolutionary trait giving us extreme productivity easily capable of satisfying our still basic needs, our productivity is insanely high and still rising, we all can live in decent humane conditions, for example right now we produce enough food to feed about 12 billion people


Quote:
All the wealthy societies of the Earth became so because of the effort to make it happen, and that can only occur when people fight for the freedom to be able to put forth that effort.

if you know how countries like for example in africa work to make it happen and what impressive political systems they managed to create (some of the best governed countries are african) only to be subverted by western imperialism you would know how mind-bogglingly injust the suggestion is that they just lack effort or skill

i dont feel sorry for their poverty, i feel sorry for the injustice done to them

i know how it is to live in povery with no hope, it takes very little to hinder or subvert ones efforts to get out of it

we dont need to feel sorry for them or somehow help them change their political systems, we have to change ours so our governments stop subverting their efforts to become free and stable anymore, instead of exercising some false sense of superiority by doing charity for these "poor incapable people" we should just grab our own nose, as we say here
Hope1
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2012 11:41:37 AM
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Joined: 8/31/2011
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From subforum re meaning of smart where smart intelligence was noted -

Quote Hope1:
(A digression - if Daemon were REALLY smart, it would have included ALL of Lucy Maude Montgomery's quote so that the meaning was not changed. See quote of day.)

To (rationally, I hope) jump into a topic that happened by mistake - I do not think any one country is to blame for poverty in the world. To say 'Western Imperialism' is fighting words, flo.

According to the latest reports, we do have the capacity to produce enough to feed everyone right now. It is a matter of distribution. Billions of dollars in aid are given by wealthier countries every year regularly, AND when a disaster occurs who is the first to respond?

However, how much of the aid given to the victims of earthquakes in Haiti actually reached the victims? How much went to corrupt officials? We will never know. How much was wasted such as in ad campaigns 'to wash your hands' when there was no soap and water? How many countries followed through on their commitments? I do not know where Canada stands. Haiti is still a mess two years later.

I do not know what the answer to poverty is. We here in Canada try to help our own less fortunate with programs such as welfare, disability, universal health care etc. but we still have room for improvement. I also see newspaper editorials telling our government that the dollar figure of aid to foreign countries is too low. So we do contribute.

It certainly is not fair to blame people for being poor. I am sure they try hard to change it where possible but they need the opportunities to do so.

We try to abide by UN rules and send our army where people NEED help, especially peacekeeping. From what I see the US does too. I do know 'NOTHING' about Africa so I can not comment there. But let's not blame the woes of the world on 'Western Imperialism'.

Edit : I am not even sure what you mean by the term 'Western Imperialism'. What is your definition? To whom is the reference? Does it mean all 'well to do' countries or just those of us who live in the west? What exactly is imperialism in your view?

If this thread continues, maybe it should be put into the subforum 'Politics'?




floccinaucinihilipilificatinator
Posted: Monday, April 16, 2012 7:12:23 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 2/1/2012
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Location: Germany
no sorry hope1, false relativism and moderation, it is like saying lets not blame all of the holocaust on the nazis, you say yourself that you know "nothing" so what do you base your call on to not blame western imperialism? gut feelings? one shouldnt be moderate and modest just for the sake of looking rational

western imperialism in lack of a better term, its simply that the west is the dominating entity on the planet and the criminal cabal that is its leadership is responsible for these problems, its no good pointing out single countries, the power that be think and work in global terms, the core of this imperialism or globalism is to spread our predatory financial/monetary system across the globe and to undermine local/national governance

Quote:
I do not know what the answer to poverty is.

that is because you are taught to not know anything, never mind politics and economics, its not for you, let the authorities handle it for you

i do know the answer to poverty, i know where it comes from, and this is not hubris, you are taught that the matters are too complicated to understand so you dont interfere but they are not!

lets say the mafia extorts protection money from ur favourite restaurant, to the point that he barely can exist, you know the owner and so you help him where you can so he can stay in business and keep paying the money, who are you really helping with that and what should you really do?

Quote:
We try to abide by UN rules and send our army where people NEED help, especially peacekeeping. From what I see the US does too.

just no, they do not, exemplary just look at the decades of struggle to get just tiny little helicopter units for rescue missions in africa, and that when all the countries have huge helicopter fleets rusting away unused, its pathetic, if you still believe in the UN do a tiny bit of research
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 12:06:08 PM

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Joined: 9/19/2011
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floyd wrote:

But FounDit, my friend, why does charity infuriate you so? If someone says that this is a good way to help to those who are starving, why shouldn't I give something? If you say, here's a good way to support people struggling for sustainable food production, I'll give something to that, too.

It isn't charity that irritated me, floyd. It is people who take advantage of the kindness of folks who want to help others by false schemes that are designed to get people to give but do not deliver, as happened in Haiti. If people are truly helped, I have no problem with that.

You say, FounDit, that: "All the wealthy societies of the Earth became so because of the effort to make it happen." I disagree. This country became wealthy because of its vast resources and its willingness to exploit them. Including, I think, our willingness to exploit slaves and slaughter Native Americans. China has had vast poverty for millennia -- have its people made less effort? I don't think you could show that.

Your statement, "willingness to exploit them." is exactly what I meant by "effort". Effort must be put forth to gain anything. There are, of course, good and bad methods of effort and I do not support the bad ones, but the Earth does not, and will not, simply grow enough food for all of us out of the goodness of its heart. We must work to make that happen. My point was the people must put forth that effort if they want to see it occur.

Your example of China does not fit because you are looking at the past, and not taking into consideration the knowledge available today. With that and the vast manpower of China, there is no reason they could not be a breadbasket.

I do feel sorry for the hungry and starving, and as I can, I will try to help them feed and clothe themselves. They are the poor waifs of our world -- helpless, ignorant, and I suspect they have no more faults than you and I.

I have sympathy for them also, and that is why I hate those who take advantage without doing anything positive to truly help. However, I maintain that to simply give up, sit back and cease to try, will not improve their situation. They must put forth some effort if they ever want their lives to be better.

That's it. I won't respond to your ugly sarcasm, except to ask that you please think about how much uncalled for your attack is. You act as if you're morally superior to someone like MTC, who is trying to do some small good works. If you are, you make it hard to see. You should think about apologizing to MTC, and think again before loosing your venom like this.

I do not think I am morally superior to anyone. That's why I posted the ETA onto the end to say it was those who created websites that take advantage without truly helping that angered me, and not any posters. I regret it if that was not clear and apologize to any who thought I was being critical of generosity. I am not.


Peace,

floyd
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