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Rusty
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:32:38 AM
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Joined: 1/29/2011
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Neurons: 450
Ok, so India is an ancient nation etc., has been through many invasions over the ages and as a result the population is a mixture of various religions and cultures. It is the 7th largest nation in the world but looks tiny on the map (a British archaeologist once told me).

But my aim is not an essay on India. Sometime back while talking to an acquaintance I was surprised at this person’s (a Brit) perception of India. “A sleeping giant”, “next economical powerhouse”, “born low, stay low” and “female foeticide” were among the many terms that were used. This person had an exaggerated view of both the positive and negative aspects of today’s India.

Amused as I was, I also understood this thinking. For many years I believed that USA was very unsafe, that anyone could pull a gun on you and that you could be shot for no reason at all. Only when I heard first person accounts from friends who are studying there or relatives who visited USA did I realise that it was one of the friendliest places you could be and that my perception was largely based on all the documentaries about gangs on the Discovery Channel. USA is three times the size of India and a small gang infested locality doesn’t really define an entire nation.

Our views are mainly formed on the information we receive through media and we tend to generalise. On this forum too I have realised many times that people tend to generalise inaccurately.

I will try to present an unbiased and balanced view. We can discuss all the topics, the more sensitive ones (female foeticide, Indo-Pak relations, casteism, status of women etc) and the lighter ones (places to visit, spicy food). Ask whatever you are curious about and in turn I would like to know more about your respective countries (JJ, does every house in Finland really has a sauna??).


srirr
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 4:57:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/2009
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After a long time, someone dares to accept the balance between highs and lows. I appreciate my compatriot's view. I admit that it is media that exaggerates the things, either good or bad. It should be moral responsibility of the readers/viewers to see the things and analyze the things before accepting it as truth. Specially the movies, TV reports, stories etc are a lot dramatised in order to make it more approachable. The plain and honest truth is often not penetrating.

I welcome Rusty's ideas. Applause Applause Applause
Romany
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 5:04:45 AM
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Rusty, what a splendid idea! I've often wished I could find out what people think about China, too.

As I spent the first few years of my existance in Sri Lanka and am very familiar with India I don't really have any questions. My greatest joy these days is to observe the words that are becoming part of Indian English and watching as it shapes itself into it's own language - no longer just a pale copy of British English. Great topic, man.
Klaas V
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 5:19:39 AM

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Joined: 7/12/2010
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I've never been to India, but I had a Hindoestaan colleague like 3 years ago and he sometimes told about their culture like he has roots in Bihar. One of the things I don't like is the child labour, but as pointed out yet the opinion of the media about it. Never been there, it's all hear say so who am I to judge any issue. It's a country thing, belongs to the country's culture and every day life. Amazing how people can be happy even when they are poor and may stay poor unless they go to another country. Now the country is developing, because many software countries get work done there. Logical since English, the language of ICT is yet one of the many languages the Indian people are familiar with.

Thank you for starting this thread about your country, Rusty. Perhaps we should have a thread for every country where we're born or reside?

Happy Holidays and lots of success in 2012 and beyond!
ellana
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:29:18 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/2010
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Location: Roquefort, Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur, France
Excellent topic as we reflect on ourselves at this time of year...

I see the thrust of this thread as being one of avoiding generalizations, 'in general'. Many of us, and I include myself, tend to jump to conclusions a little too quickly and end up negatively tagging a person, a country, an idea without sufficient information. I have lived in many countries and traveled 'on the cheap' to many more. All of them have taught me to be more open minded and tolerant, to appreciate all aspects of cultural diversity. No country, old or new, can boast perfection. And I for one, having spent several months in India many years ago, long to return for the sights, the smells, the vibrant street life, the culture.
Just yesterday, I saw a short report on the spice market of Old Delhi and it all came back.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 6:51:44 AM
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I have been to India a few times... staying over months at a time. I often think of my experiences there and of the people I met. I have friends in Mumbai and Pune.

Unfortunately I confined myself to backpacking over parts of southern India. I explored all the places folk told me not to go to. For example when in Bangalore I was told not to go to the poor part of the city due to sanitary conditions and possible criminal activity, but I walked all through it nevertheless. In fact I struck up a friendship with a poor family who lived in one small room and ran a laundry business from it. They eat, slept, washed, ironed and watched TV all from the same room. I only speak one language, but they had mastered English. The children were happy, with big smiles and cheerful demeanours.

I was always struck by the contrast in India between the poor and those better off. For example most big cities I discovered have an MG Road and it is here that you get the display of wealth in the form of upmarket buildings and good shopping centres. A shortish walk and you are in the poor section over almost open sewers, piles of rubbish at which cows munch away, and poorly constructed buildings.

I’ll never forget the sight of a cow walking head on through four lanes of fast traffic, chewing its cud.

This contrast rich and poor is so much in evidence, right alongside each other, I found. When in Pune I stayed with a well-to-do family Indian family... three generations in the same house... and they very kindly gave me the best room, on its own on the roof… I felt embarrassed to be treated so well, but they would not take refusal. I love the sense of family I experienced in India and in the house of my friends.

An example of the above is that two of the men of the house belonged to a club called the ‘Millionaires Club’ in Pune… that’s what I recall. It was right on a high hill overlooking a large shanty town. The building was huge and luxurious with marble pillars and floors. There were water pools with shelved grottos in them where one could swim, drink ones cocktails and eat snacks as one cooled off.

Then after a swim you could get out and walk across the courtyard, and look over the wall and down hillside at the shanties. I did that and watched folk leave their huts and defecate openly on the hillside. At the time I was embarrassed and turned away. There was no blame… it was all the means they had.

When I talked to my friends I found a certain acceptance of the poor, as if that was their rightful existence or position.

I have many experiences and will add to this thread as time goes by. A great thread begun in a fine spirit.

Ps. This thread called Luftmarque to mind... I know he spent time in Calcutta.(Kolkata) I hope he is well.
Rusty
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:34:58 AM
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Thank you for appreciating the topic.

As for Child Labour I am afraid whatever you have read is not too wildly exaggerated. Child Labour is a sad reality in India and in many other developing/ underdeveloped nations.

Personally I have not come across any cases of children working in factories but other Indians might be able to shed more light on it. I don’t think that happens, at least not in most of India. But you will find children serving tables in small restaurants or working in fields. Though the work is not exactly hazardous they are definitely over worked, under paid and missing school. However none of the major manufacturing units will allow child labour nor will they tolerate child labour in any of their ancillary units.

Reason is of course abject poverty and illiteracy. Most of us earn less than half a dollar per day and large sections of our population suffers from malnutrition. If you have to choose between sending your children to school or feeding them, you don’t really have a choice.

Government Efforts

The government started making serious efforts to curb this problem in 1979 (I think). Various schemes were launched for rehabilitation of such children. The Child Labour Prevention Act came into force in 1986, under which you can be imprisoned for up to 2 years for employing children.

There are government run schools (many thousands of them) in almost all villages where the education is free in addition to lunch and they are also given some money every month. The teachers are well paid (by Indian standards) and they actually go house to house to convince parents to send children to school (my aunt is one such teacher). There is an equally widespread program to take care of preschool children (health checkups, nutrition etc). The results of such programs are encouraging.

There are many other schemes, the government and NGO’s are doing a lot but till we get rid of poverty this will remain a major problem. But things are improving slowly, people are earning more and good schools are opening up in almost all villages. Let’s see what the future holds.

P.S Percival, even I am stunned by the contrast between rich and poor.
Articulate Dreamer
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:47:19 AM

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Well put, Rusty,
Though i do think that apart from illiteracy and poverty, sheer ignorance aggravates the size of the CL Problem. Of course one could argue that ignorance is a facet of illiteracy. I am not so sure.

On a different note, your signature quote, is it from Thomas Macaulay? Should it not read "How can man better die...." rather than the way it now reads?
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:57:05 AM
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We in the UK employed children for labour. In the eighteenth century they were used to clean the huge chimneys in the house of the well off. There are tales of them dying up a chimney due to being stuck. We used them in the mines. I once read an article that claimed children as young as eight were working underground up to their waste in water.

Your point about 'needs must' is valid Rusty. In Thailand I have seen eight year olds, with their younger siblings on the back, driving motorcycles to school. You have to live with folk to understand what drives them, and why they do things. You cannot use the standard, whatever that may be in your own country, to judge.




http://www.victorianweb.org/history/hist8.html

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/tuttle.labor.child.britain

boneyfriend
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:16:35 AM

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Location: Columbia, South Carolina, United States
India fascinates and beckons. One thing I have heard about India that amazed me was that in the rural areas there are so many languages. One group can speak a language and 15 miles down the road another village speaks another language. Is that true? I was told that by folks that went over to India as missionaries.
One more question. I think a Janist (?sp) is a form of a religion. Can you explain that further for me. I met a fellow one time who was a Janist.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:39:35 AM
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You should go Boneyfriend. I am considering revisiting next year. This time I will buy a motorbike and sell it off at the end.
Shivanand
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:29:35 AM
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Location: Bangalore, Karnataka, India
@Rusty, many congratulations on starting this thread! Hope many of the misconceptions and media exaggerated ills in India are washed off at he end of this discussion!

Good Luck! Cheers!!Applause Applause Applause
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:07:06 PM

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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
Of course - 'everyone knows' because it is in the news. Liar

I have learned more about India in 10 minutes reading this thread than I have in years of reading the newspapers and seeing the TV. The thing that 'sells' newspapers is controversy - so only controversial points end up in the news. d'oh!

All I know about India is the people I meet who come from there. Though there are exceptions, I find them very polite, thoughtful of others and hard-working (I am sorry for the 'generality' ellana, I could name 20 who are like that and only 2 who are not).

boneyfriend - I think the word you want is Jainism

Thanks to you all for your observations, I'll follow the thread with interest.

Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:41:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/2009
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Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
Thanks, Rusty, for starting this topic. Folks certainly have strange visions of other people living in other countries, these visions coming mostly from media (TV!).

When I think of India I can see ancient culture and religions, Gandhi, extreme poverty as well as extreme richness, elephants and tigers, Kipling's books like "Kim", folks washing themselves in the river Ganges, folks cooking spicy foods on simple hearths, tea plantations in Assam and jungles in Bengal and deserts in the south...
To me India is a country with many faces and many many languages, and I can hardly understand the fact that in a "small" Indian city like Bangalore lives as much people than in the whole country of Finland.

I know many Indian and Bangladeshi people who live here and I can call many of them my friends.

I'm not sure if there really is a sauna in EVERY Finnish house, but I have NEVER visited one without ;-)
srirr
Posted: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:20:01 PM

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I would like to add a point to Rusty's post about child labour in India. It is true that because of human rights activists and laws, the factories and industries do not engage children below 18 yrs of age in any sort of work. This is what is normally seen in registered and on-the-front factories. BUt the small and very small industries, the unknown and unregistered small factories often overrule this law. Since there is no proper record of employees there, in case of police raid or investigation, the children are shooed away for the time. Worse is the case with small eateries, hotels, and our educated neighbourhood. The so-called literate and educated and respected members of society can be seen having servants and maids of age as less as 10. This is bitter fact.

@Boney: What you heard is almost correct. We do have several languages, but what you are referring to is dialect. There is a proverb in some parts of India that at every 5-6 mile, there is change in dialect. People can understand a wide range of dialects in a region, but these dialects are often of the same language.

And, Jainism is an Indian religion which advocates absolute non-violence. You will be surprised to know the practices of Jainism. A sect (considered to be the most pure) of Jains do not wear any cloth, cover their mouth throughout, wipe the floor in front of them while walking, eat only in their palms without touching any utensil, eat before sunset, eat only once and several others.
Rusty
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 4:23:52 AM
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@ Articulate Dreamer

Yeah you are right, but I thought it rhymes better that way. I hope it is not wrong to twist someone else's work that way.
Romany
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 6:53:06 AM
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Joined: 6/14/2009
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Aaaargh! =

Rusty, my man, you have actually just committed one of the greatest of crimes there is against the English Literary Canon!!

From which perhaps you might have gathered no, it is not, for a variety of reasons, considered good form to play about with other peoples words. Unless one tags "With apologies to......" or "to paraphrase........" - or otherwise acknowledges the original.

(Sorry: - slipped right down into teacher-mode there, didn't I?)
Gunjika
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 8:06:43 AM
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Location: India
Rusty:
Kudos for starting a great thread. I would love to read more opinions because it sure brings a smile when I see my own habitat from someone else's eyes (I mean the brighter topics). Though, it is quite painful to read something negative about India and not being able to completely deny it. Good or bad, this is my country, and I love her.

percivalpecksniff said:
You have to live with folk to understand what drives them, and why they do things. You cannot use the standard, whatever that may be in your own country, to judge.

Exactly, people behave differently because their circumstances are different.

These days, I am visiting relatives and going to all different kinds of places-- urban, rural, rich and poor--- and I am overwhelmed to see so many types of lifestyles in the same family. I find so many practices which look disgusting to me, but to someone, that might be their way of living. I know they might similarly find some of my habits silly. But neither am I going to stop them from living their lives in their own ways, nor are they asking me to behave like them.

I hope everyone thinks like you do, that will solve so many problems.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:02:12 PM
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I had a great time with my middle class Indian friends in Pune one year, and some touching experiences.

I used to love buying a Mango Mustani made of Mango and ice cream… it cost about 9 RS. I found a shop that made a perfect Mustani…. I was hooked. I also love Onion Bargee, if that is how you spell it, and Vegetable Samosas. I could never understand non-meat days as my friends called the days they ate meat... one day a week.

I am a meat eater and worried a little about a mainly veggie diet, but Indians do know how to cook veg and give it extraordinary flavours.

Indians are mad drivers... but I had some laughs as well as near misses.

I met the couple who were responsible for my going to India in the first place in a town called Ipswich in Suffolk England. He worked for British Telecom and his wife was taking her Master’s Degree in chemistry. She is very clever and while at Uni. in India, had two patents put to her name.

I went to a Hindu family wedding while in Pune and got all dressed up in flashy headgear and followed the entourage around the streets.

My friend took me to his wife’s father’s farm. All the farmer’s children were very clever. The father had started his own school on the grounds of the farm as a free school. The school teacher in situ had been there for almost fifty years… he taught all subjects. Many children from village went from that humble hut and on to university. I went into the crude hut and the children were so polite to me. It was plain to see they loved and respected their teacher.

The teacher filed all the kids outside and they sang a song for me. I have it recorded somewhere. It almost brought me to tears.

I stayed at the farm in a bedroom upstairs and came down early in the morning. Ahead was a big room with the door half open and all the family, about thirteen were sleeping on the floor. We had our meals seated on the floor and eat with our hands…they wanted to give me a knife and fork but I would have none of it. We ate right handed.... or fingered.

To be cont’d.
Hope1
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:05:33 PM
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Gunjika,

I am sure every one of our countries has negative characteristics we do not like that we can not deny . But we still think it is the best country in the world.

We are all different and do/ believe whatever it is that gets us 'through the night'. Just wish the world could be as understanding as people on this forum are. They could take a lesson.

As for child labor- of course laws to prevent exploitation of children are appropriate. However, as a child below ten, I picked all kinds of berries (for a nickel a box) and cucumbers etc. It was my choice to do it, my parents allowed me to keep the money, and I could work as long as I wanted. Those are the differences between what I did and child exploitation. At 14 I bugged for months the manager of a department store for a job. (He thought I was too young.) Finally he gave in and let me run the elevator. I worked as a clerk in that store after school for years for my spending money. Even after I was teaching they wanted me to work on Saturdays.

My point is that hard work never hurt anyone. Children here nowadays are legislated from being able to do as I did. But the necessary laws are there to protect children.

So, enjoy your country. Happy Holidays.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:14:05 PM
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I was seven and a half when I got my first job working for a Mr Jones on Saturday and Sunday mornings, delivering milk for Express Dairies with a horse drawn cart. 'Two silver and one gold' he would shout out according to the order a particular house. Ordinary pastuerised was silver topped and channel Island gold topped. 'Move on' Mr Jones would cry and the horse would go forward to the next house we delivered milk to, and stop outside.


I note your comment Hope1,and it probably holds true for most folk, but I do not think my country is the best country in the world... or any other country for that matter. I like to view myself as an Internationalist.
Rusty
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2011 5:44:55 AM
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@ Romany
Done.

PPS I always enjoy your wonderful posts. Am glad you had a clourful experience while in India.
GabhSigenod
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2011 7:19:53 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/22/2010
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Location: Mulroog, Connaught, Ireland
I have had very enjoyable personal ties to individuals in the Jalna District, of the Aurangabad Region,
in the State of Maharashtra, mainly with the medical community.
But while last visiting Mumbai, India and dealing with international relations among private citizens,
I became indirectly involved with the biometrics that ended up part of the UIDAI program debate.


[image not available]

It may be interesting to hear the views of those affected directly by such a concept.
It now seems the acceptance of the program in India is growing with few grievances, that is, in certain areas of the country.
Originally there seemed to have been quite a debate about privacy and government control.
Protests of intrusion into private lives roared to varying degrees throughout the State.
You may view an enrollment form here.

http://aadhaar.maharashtra.gov.in/upload/EnrollmentForm.pdf

What are your thoughts concerning this program in particular, or this general governmental agenda
as seen at various stages of implementation in many countries worldwide?


percivalpecksniff
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2011 7:39:06 AM
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Location: United Kingdom
GabhSiqenod. That sounds like an enormous task.

As you know there is great resistance in the UK to any such project. The fear is lack of privacy… exploitation and loss of freedom... edging toward a police state etc. The last two do not bother me but the others do.

I would imagine the same reservations would exist in the minds of the Indian public.

In some ways it appears beneficial as, for example, in crime conviction… what are your views?

PS. What does your avatar signify? Is it Gaelic?
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2011 7:55:26 AM
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Joined: 6/1/2011
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I’ll never forget when my friends decided to ‘show me off’ to some local dignitaries. Knowing my interest in agriculture and in anything country wise they suggested I may like to visit a sugar factory. Of course I was all for it. It seems the news got around and anyone who was ‘important’ turned up at the factory to get a view of this Englishman. Frankly I am a bit of a ‘nobody,’ but they did not care.

I was treated to a tour of the factory from field crop to sugar processing. I saw the cane being cut, carted, loaded into noisy machinery and finally to the pure sugar cascading down into sacks. I had a great time and had an official along with me all the way explaining the process.

My tour finished I was ushered into a huge office like place to stand in front of a large gathering of local, and far reaching, officials connected with the industry or just there to be part of things. They spoke good English and were very welcoming. A good discussion ensued and afterwards I felt somewhat bemused by the attention, but grateful for a great day in the state of Maharashtra
Blooper
Posted: Saturday, December 24, 2011 8:25:03 AM
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Ha, never seen Mr. Gabhsigenod's post that long before.

I enjoy Mr. sniff's stories. I am so envious that I never get out of the island where I live (Borneo). All here look like have been travelling everywhere.

My perception about India, poorer than my country, cows are everywhere, and how many movie they produce in one day? Seems a lot.
GabhSigenod
Posted: Sunday, December 25, 2011 11:33:31 PM

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To percivalpecksniff:

Your description brings back memories of my travels around the globe, through Rotary International.
abcxyz
Posted: Monday, December 26, 2011 12:58:42 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/13/2009
Posts: 1,056
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Location: India
GabhSigenod wrote:

What are your thoughts concerning this program in particular, or this general governmental agenda
as seen at various stages of implementation in many countries worldwide?


Absolutely, resolutely, vehemently against the UID project. Reasons:

1. Putting it in context. There is another project called Natgrid, which will link the database of about 21 agencies and employ an "illegal-activity-detecting software" that will find links between data from different agencies and point out possible illegal activities. We have laws like the UAPA act which allows police to detain people without trial for about 180 days. Given our govt is corrupt to the core, I don't think handing them a tool like UID is a good idea. Remember this UID code will be required everywhere, so it would be like leaving an electronic footprint whenever you book a ticket or apply for a net connection.
2. The govt doesn't have enough money to pay Rs 100 per day to MNREGA workers or ensure food security for every Indian. This UID project will cost a lot. Why spend money on a project like this?
zorba_lb
Posted: Monday, December 26, 2011 5:20:37 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/24/2010
Posts: 64
Neurons: 128
Location: Lebanon
I once heard this beautiful short expression describing your homeland:
"Isn't pink the baby blue of India!"

For some reason,I picture India as a crowded place with a high poverty rate in the streets and everywhere..
Yet, i'd like to travel there one day, can't miss such a culture, a glorious culture on all aspects : colors, people, religions, history, cinema, food, etc.

Gunjika
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:13:09 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/2011
Posts: 376
Neurons: 1,127
Location: India
Thanks Hope1.

Perci,
Your memoirs remind me of a Moroccan woman who lives in France. She is a friend of a relative and recently visited us in Varanasi during a wedding. I was given the job of talking to her and explaining various rituals. I was also the translator for her as well as women in my family who wanted to communicate with her. She stayed with us during the entire wedding and we discussed so many things at length. I was wondering the whole time what makes this wedding, this place, this country so interesting to her. How is she able to feel so comfortable in a strange place full of strangers?

I realized she was comfortable because we are at the best of our behavior when we are facing someone from a foreign land. Angel
And she was interested in knowing more and more about India because... well India is interesting.

Romany
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:45:31 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Gunjika - My beloved nanny used often to take me to her home to visit in Colombo. The first time I remember going I was irate, because she made me wear this beautiful little white crepe de chine smock she had embroidered herself. How on earth was I going to be able to play dressed like that? (My usual attire, judging by photographs, was usually a pair of knickers and nothing else!).

But when we arrived I found that all the other children were also dressed up in beautiful white, hand-embroidered dresses too. We all eyed each other with suspicion thinking that was the way each of us dressed normally and were quite disgusted. It was the most horribly stultifying experience - especially as all the Aunties were slipping ME the choice sweet-meats and candies and stroking my platinum blond hair.

Then, fortunately, I wandered off and found...a patch of mud. Hurrah! Soon all the other kids joined in and we dabbled and splashed and threw gobs of mud at each other and became friends.

The Aunties were furious! They rounded us all up and scolded and scrubbed and shouted....and soon we were all running round in old pairs of shorts.... and no-one, ever, treated me like the Little Memsahib again!

The last time I ever saw this second 'family' of mine I was all grown up and, as the ship slid into harbour, there they all were... dressed in white! So I hastily ran down and changed into a white dress too: after all we were too old now for mud fights, but not for the memories.
Rusty
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:31:09 AM
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Joined: 1/29/2011
Posts: 148
Neurons: 450
Can someone please explain this:

"Isn't pink the baby blue of India!"
srirr
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 4:07:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 8,507
Neurons: 484,288
I too could not understand wha it means by "Isn't pink the baby blue of India!". If Zorba can throw some light on it, it would be nice. :)

In addition to Gunjika's, Gabh's and Perci's posts, I would like to add that we Indians believe in saying "Atithi Devo Bhav!" which translates to "A guest is like God." We treat our guests like God and pay honour to them.
Jeech
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 4:18:44 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/2009
Posts: 1,468
Neurons: 4,436
Location: Karachi West, Sindh, Pakistan
I couldn't have a long time friend from India as I had from other part of the world, perhaps, because of the noncompromising political stands of mine. All the freindship broke apart as long as we started to discuss political issues, the controvartial ones. I feel India demands too much from Pakistan than it's capacity to give. Where Indians feel they have given up too much, entire the eastern and westerm part of it. The memories of living togather and getting devided is irremovable there. In contrast people here think that we, the Indus civilisation ruled India before Britain that we gave up.
srirr
Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 4:31:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/29/2009
Posts: 8,507
Neurons: 484,288
Jeech wrote:
I couldn't have a long time friend from India as I had from other part of the world, perhaps, because of the noncompromising political stands of mine. All the freindship broke apart as long as we started to discuss political issues, the controvartial ones. I feel India demands too much from Pakistan than it's capacity to give (up.)


Now that can be another controversial statement.
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