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How to describe when wine(or anything to drink) got too old Options
almostfreebird
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 10:45:21 AM
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Here is the context:

Larry: "The best vintage Bordeaux in this century, at least that's what an
old friend of mine used to say. His name was Rudy."

Frannie: "But 1947 . . . that's forty-three years ago. Won't it be . . . well, gone
over?"

Larry: "Rudy used to say a good Bordeaux never went over. Anyway, I've carried it all
the way from Ohio. If it's bad wine, it'll be well-traveled bad wine."


"went over" here must mean "got too old to be tasty" or "run to seed",
How do you say it generally when wine(or whiskey) got too old?
Thanks in advance
.

leonAzul
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 11:43:20 AM

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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
almostfreebird wrote:
Here is the context:

Larry: "The best vintage Bordeaux in this century, at least that's what an
old friend of mine used to say. His name was Rudy."

Frannie: "But 1947 . . . that's forty-three years ago. Won't it be . . . well, gone
over?"

Larry: "Rudy used to say a good Bordeaux never went over. Anyway, I've carried it all
the way from Ohio. If it's bad wine, it'll be well-traveled bad wine."


"went over" here must mean "got too old to be tasty" or "run to seed",
How do you say it generally when wine(or whiskey) got too old?
.

The most general way to say that would be that it has spoiled. Each thing has its own way of spoiling, so there are a number of collocations and colloquialisms that reflect this.

Wine tends to become vinegar if it is not stored carefully, so it would be appropriate to say the wine has soured.

Beer can loose its effervescence and go flat. It can also acquire a very odd smell if it is exposed to sunlight, at which time it is said to be "skunked".

Whisky, and distilled spirits in general, can't really spoil, but the more volatile ingredients evaporate and leave the liquor flat and stale.

A common colloquialism in AE is "beyond its 'sell-by' date". The one in your example, "gone over", is of course a euphemism for "dead".

shelf
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 12:08:35 PM
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And I always thought wine, like many of us, got better with age ;-(
thar
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 12:27:57 PM

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food or milk that is too old 'is off' or 'has gone off'.

A wine is said to be 'off' as a technical term if it is flawed or spoiled in some way, so I guess that would work with just being too old?
GabhSigenod
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 12:28:33 PM

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Generally, like everything, there is a limit.
RubyMoon
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 12:31:44 PM
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The mature ladies of TFD are well-seasoned; I'm sure we are not at all ruffled by the OP's question and apparent confusion.

I'd like to elevate the topic --

Love Poem by William Butler Yeats

Wine comes in at the mouth
And love comes in at the eye;
That's all we shall know for truth
Before we grow old and die.
I lift the glass to my mouth,
I look at you, and I sigh.


(Yeats was a gentleman, but he was really trying to say: If it tastes good, eat it!)

And, when Yeats penned these words (to Maud, I believe)--

When you are old and gray and full of sleep,
And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;


He (Yeats) was (again) searching for a beautiful song...

http://youtu.be/qncKIVwzJaA


jmacann
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 12:45:19 PM
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Location: Spain
"Musty" is commonly applied to beer.
---
Well done, Ruby.

excaelis
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 2:12:26 PM

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[quote=jmacann]"Musty" is commonly applied to beer.
---

Also wine.
RubyMoon
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 2:35:07 PM
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I give up, Ex. Shoot me now. Really.

I'm obviously a beat behind, and I don't get it.
You've always had my loyalty -- not one post of mine was ever aimed at you... not yesterday, not today, not tomorrow. Never.
I could go backwards and explain what happened and how is was mis-understood, mis-posted, and missed its mark-- but I am out of steam.

Sadly, I see I'm being rather chased off the forum. Fair enough. Every dog has his day; if one is fortunate-- fifteen minutes in the sun. The clouds here are thick and appreciated.
Ava
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 3:51:46 PM

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Old wine is flat. That means there isn't enough acid left in it. There has to be an acid structure or it is "flat" on your tongue. The balance of acid to fruit has to be there, if there isn't enough fruit, the acid prevails, and the wine goes bad.
In newer wines, they can be "corked," that is an off-flavor that is easily recognizable and results from the bleaching process of cork - when it doesn't work correctly, I believe. There are so few cork trees left we now see composite corks which are stiffer.
I think the Portuguese gov't. has a program in place in protect and maybe grow, more cork trees.
I wrote this in a hurry, but hope it helps.
leonAzul
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:11:25 PM

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shelf wrote:
And I always thought wine, like many of us, got better with age ;-(


Only if we take good care of it—or ourselves. Think
xsmith
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:21:04 PM
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Doesn't old wine turn to vinegar??
leonAzul
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:36:54 PM

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Joined: 8/11/2011
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Location: Miami, Florida, United States
excaelis wrote:
[quote=jmacann]"Musty" is commonly applied to beer.
---

Also wine.


"Musty" has a different meaning when applied to wine. It means a raw, immature taste in reference to "must", the vintner's term for young wine. It is the opposite of too old.
asornunez
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 8:21:25 PM
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Applause Excellent answers!!!..I really love when I can learn something interesting with your opinions...! CHEERS!
asornunez
Posted: Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:36:13 PM
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Beside the using of good English...Of course!Applause
saintvivant
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:23:22 AM
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There does not seem to be a technical term for a wine gone bad due to age so there are several mostly quaint ways to put it: over the hill, past its prime, turned to vinegar,etc. But wines can be very old, certainly many decades old, and if you believe the experts, centuries. A very entertaining book about this is "The Billionaires Vinegar" which recounts the story of how the Forbes family bought a bottle of wine at auction that allegedly had belonged to Thomas Jefferson for $186,000. This book tells the story of the super old, super expensive wine world. The reason that that certain wines can last so long is because of tannic acid in red wine and sugar in sweet white wines. Dry white wines do not last the way the big reds and super sweet desert white wines.
MTC
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 4:34:53 AM
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According to New York Magazine, four terms describe wine "gone bad:" corked, oxidized, maderized and refermented.
For details see http://nymag.com/restaurants/articles/wine/essentials/badwine.htm
jmacann
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 4:57:21 AM
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[quote=ex] Also wine.

---
Thanks, ex.

---
Thanks for sharing, MTC.
tootsie
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:47:10 AM

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xsmith wrote:
Doesn't old wine turn to vinegar??


My stepfather used to make his own wine from fruits grown in our garden. After he died, we found a bottle that he'd made several years beforehand - we opened it and that's exactly what it tasted like, but we drank it anyway, out of respect for his memory, plus we needed something to soften the blow of our loss. On another note, I used to know someone who would drink vinegar - weird person - I don't know him anymore.......Whistle hehehe



Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:05:26 AM
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Tootsie, that was a very beautiful story about the wine and your step father.

Once I opened a bottle of Chianti that had a vague essence of mold or mildew taste. It wasn't a very old bottle of wine, just a few years old. I wonder if something went wrong with the making or storing of it, or if it was just a flawed cork. (?)
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 1:46:56 PM

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When wine is being made and stored, it is sealed away from the air - the yeasts producing ethanol (alcohol) do not need oxygen.
There is a bacterium (called acetobacter)which 'eats' (or drinks!) ethanol and produces vinegar (acetic acid) from it. This action does need oxygen from the air.
So, if too much air is present while the wine is being made (or if the cork in the bottle lets in air), the yeast turns sugar to alcohol, then the bacterium turns the alcohol to vinegar. d'oh!

Wine shouldn't taste mouldy - I'd sue the makers!

Sorry Ruby! - I brought the thread back down from the heights of your poetry to mould & bacteria d'oh!
almostfreebird
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 2:29:34 PM
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@RubyMoon
Thanks for the poem!
That reminded me of this passage which happened to be from the same book from which I excerpted as the context in my question:

Starkey was looking at the monitors again. "My daughter gave me a book of
poems some years ago. By a man named Yeets. She said every military man should
read Yeets. I think it was her idea of a joke. You ever heard of Yeets, Len?"

"I think so," Creighton said, considering and rejecting the idea of telling
Starkey the man's name was pronounced Yates.

"I read every line," Starkey said, as he peered into the eternal silence of
the cafeteria. "Mostly because she thought I wouldn't. It's a mistake to become
too predictable. I didn't understand much of it-I believe the man must have been
crazy-but I read it.



excaelis
Posted: Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:19:51 PM

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I checked with a friend who is a wine merchant, and he told me the word for wine that is past its best ( though not necessarily spoiled ) would be " tired ".
almostfreebird
Posted: Monday, December 5, 2011 11:32:17 AM
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Location: Japan


I don't like thick makeup.


excaelis
Posted: Monday, December 5, 2011 4:03:49 PM

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[quote=almostfreebird]

I don't like thick makeup.


Probably almost as much as I dislike thin wine.
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