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Capitalism, Government, and Rise of Populism Options
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:39:48 AM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FYI:Some interesting ideas. Any thoughts?

Even My Business-School Students Have Doubts About Capitalism

A generation raised amid major economic turmoil needs more reassurance that an open economy won’t leave people and communities behind.

About the author: Glenn Hubbard, an economics and finance professor at Columbia University, is the author of The Wall and the Bridge: Fear and Opportunity in Disruption’s Wake.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/mba-students-against-capitalism/621117/
litindie
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 11:18:47 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/20/2021
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Neurons: 1,171
Hope123 wrote:
FYI:Some interesting ideas. Any thoughts?

Even My Business-School Students Have Doubts About Capitalism

A generation raised amid major economic turmoil needs more reassurance that an open economy won’t leave people and communities behind.

About the author: Glenn Hubbard, an economics and finance professor at Columbia University, is the author of The Wall and the Bridge: Fear and Opportunity in Disruption’s Wake.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/01/mba-students-against-capitalism/621117/


There is no need even to start any conversation about the SPREAD OF THAT COMMIE Dirt(as euphemism) in the U.S.
It will be banned immediately in this TheFreeDictionary forum.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 12:44:12 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Since the US is in a swift elevator straight down from democracy to authoritarianism already, I guess removing freedom of speech is no longer a big deal.

Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

But those private owners see only the bottom line for their investors unless there are some government rules and regulations to protect the workers. They also prefer not to pay taxes and get many breaks as in 2017.

We saw what happened in 1929 when reckless speculation in the stock market caused the Great Depression. We saw what happened in 2008 in the US when there were no regulations in real estate and there was another depression. The US almost crashed and burned then, taking the world with it.

So some youth are seeing that pure capitalism may be good for the coproprations and the wealthy but it is not always best for the the rest of the public and that is why they are rebelling into populism.

Edited to add: The world’s 10 richest people added $402 billion to their fortunes in 2021.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/30/how-much-money-the-10-richest-people-in-the-world-made-in-2021.html
litindie
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 12:46:01 PM
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Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
Neurons: 1,171
Hope123 wrote:
FYI:Some interesting ideas. Any thoughts?




Against Champagne Socialists
Why Bernie Sanders, Hasan Piker, and Elizabeth Warren should open their wallets before they open their mouths.

The socialist Twitch streamer and Young Turks host Hasan Piker bought a $2.7 million house in Beverly Hills, complete with a swimming pool and an outdoor widescreen perfect for entertaining. Millionaire Aurora James designed Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's show-stealing "Tax the Rich" dress, which she wore to the $35,000-per-ticket Met Gala.

The phenomenon of egalitarians living in luxury while denouncing the evils of inequality is not new. In 2018, socialist Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders paid an effective tax rate of 26 percent despite campaigning on a platform that would require him to pay more than 40 percent. After taxes and donations, Sanders remains within the top 1 percent of U.S. earners and the top .02 percent worldwide. Curious observers may question why Sanders, a tireless critic of the 1 percent, doesn't sell his $575,000 vacation home and give the proceeds to charity or offer them as a general donation to the U.S. government via pay.gov. The same goes for Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a longtime progressive who has a net worth of over $10 million and yet donated a mere $50,128 in 2018.


https://reason.com/2022/01/01/against-champagne-socialists/


Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 12:54:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 10,368
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
litindie wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
FYI:Some interesting ideas. Any thoughts?




Against Champagne Socialists
Why Bernie Sanders, Hasan Piker, and Elizabeth Warren should open their wallets before they open their mouths.

The socialist Twitch streamer and Young Turks host Hasan Piker bought a $2.7 million house in Beverly Hills, complete with a swimming pool and an outdoor widescreen perfect for entertaining. Millionaire Aurora James designed Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's show-stealing "Tax the Rich" dress, which she wore to the $35,000-per-ticket Met Gala.

The phenomenon of egalitarians living in luxury while denouncing the evils of inequality is not new. In 2018, socialist Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders paid an effective tax rate of 26 percent despite campaigning on a platform that would require him to pay more than 40 percent. After taxes and donations, Sanders remains within the top 1 percent of U.S. earners and the top .02 percent worldwide. Curious observers may question why Sanders, a tireless critic of the 1 percent, doesn't sell his $575,000 vacation home and give the proceeds to charity or offer them as a general donation to the U.S. government via pay.gov. The same goes for Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, a longtime progressive who has a net worth of over $10 million and yet donated a mere $50,128 in 2018.


https://reason.com/2022/01/01/against-champagne-socialists/




Exactly!

How they earned their money is important, and how much tax they pay is too.

Those listed such as Sanders and Warren are not the extremely wealthy.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

Jeff Bezos. $177 B. United States. Amazon. ...
Elon Musk. $151 B. United States. Tesla, SpaceX. ...
Bernard Arnault & family. $150 B. France. LVMH. ...
Bill Gates. $124 B. United States. ...
Mark Zuckerberg. $97 B. United States. ...
Warren Buffett. $96 B. United States. ...
Larry Ellison. $93 B. United States. ...
Larry Page. $91.5 B. United States.

Some of them spend their money on ten minute trips to the edge of space.



litindie
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 1:01:05 PM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
Neurons: 1,171
Hope123 wrote:
Since the US is in a swift elevator straight down from democracy to authoritarianism already, I guess removing freedom of speech is no longer a big deal.

Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

But those private owners see only the bottom line for their investors unless there are some government rules and regulations to protect the workers. They also prefer not to pay taxes and get many breaks as in 2017.

We saw what happened in 1929 when reckless speculation in the stock market caused the Great Depression. We saw what happened in 2008 in the US when there were no regulations in real estate and there was another depression. The US almost crashed and burned then, taking the world with it.

So some youth are seeing that pure capitalism may be good for the coproprations and the wealthy but it is not always best for the the rest of the public and that is why they are rebelling into populism.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/30/how-much-money-the-10-richest-people-in-the-world-made-in-2021.html





N.B. I can't stand Communism!

Now.
Your statement,"Since the US is in a swift elevator straight down from democracy to authoritarianism already..." was used profusely by the AUTHORITARIAN DEMOCRATS during Trump's tenure in the White House, but...

NOBODY was able to provide any FACTUAL examples of Trump's dictatorship, only some "he wanted..., he wished...".

Next.

"...government rules and regulations to protect the workers."

I know you are from CANADA.
In my greatest country on Earth, the U.S., companies can't find enough experienced, skillful workers!
Those companies are offering excellent pay and benefits to workers with skills, but...
YES(!!!), the SOCIALIST government can destroy PROFITABLE JOBS FOR WORKERS under this/that AUTHORITARIAN/DICTATORIAL pretext of "saving our Planet".

The very first example would be JOE BIDEN'S DICTATORIAL decisions to attack our ENERGY SECTOR!

Let's take a look at another one your "pearls."

"They also prefer not to pay taxes and get many breaks as in 2017."

Without getting into a long discussion about your purposely-provided FALLACIES about Trump's tax cuts, I'd like for you to express your opinion about
the repeal of SALT tax cap.

litindie
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 1:12:07 PM
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Hope123 wrote:



Exactly!

How they earned their money is important, and how much tax they pay is too.

Those listed such as Sanders and Warren are not the extremely wealthy.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

Jeff Bezos. $177 B. United States. Amazon. ...
Elon Musk. $151 B. United States. Tesla, SpaceX. ...
Bernard Arnault & family. $150 B. France. LVMH. ...
Bill Gates. $124 B. United States. ...
Mark Zuckerberg. $97 B. United States. ...
Warren Buffett. $96 B. United States. ...
Larry Ellison. $93 B. United States. ...
Larry Page. $91.5 B. United States.

Some of them spend their money on ten minute trips to the edge of space.





Do you know that ALL OF YOUR ABOVE MENTIONED Billionaires are DEMOCRATS but "naturalized citizen" Elon Musk.

Sorry but I can't stand that kind of discussions.

And here is why.

Any person who PEDDLES LIES PURPOSELY in order to PROFIT FROM THEM (like SYSTEMIC RACISM, HUMAN-INDUCED Global Warming, Capitalism is bad/Socialism is good, etc...) is, in my world, an organism that lives on or in a host and gets its food from or at the expense of its host.

Epiphileon
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 3:37:08 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 3:53:42 PM

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Location: Helsinki, Southern Finland Province, Finland
Litindie,
it's nearly a year when your beloved Trumpists tried the Capitol.

Not very nice picture of one of the oldest modern democracies. Investigations still going on...
litindie
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 5:25:54 PM
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Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
Litindie,
it's nearly a year when your beloved Trumpists tried the Capitol.

Not very nice picture of one of the oldest modern democracies. Investigations still going on...

Let's leave those Democratic Party's talking points out of our conversation.

I don't have any BELOVED PEOPLE who trashed, abused MY PEOPLE'S HOUSE, who smeared the walls of OUR HOUSE with stinky excrement.

("No need for braces, Donnie." Magnolia - 1999)

From your very succinct comment, I can assume a priori that you are not a big fan of OBJECTIVITY; therefore, any serious, any thought-provoking discussions are doomed to fail "upon arrival."
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 11:14:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Litindie wrote:"Any person who PEDDLES LIES PURPOSELY in order to PROFIT FROM THEM (like SYSTEMIC RACISM, HUMAN-INDUCED Global Warming, Capitalism is bad/Socialism is good, etc...) is, in my world, an organism that lives on or in a host and gets its food from or at the expense of its host."

N.B. I can't stand Communism!

Now.
Your statement,"




You didn't read the article, did you, Litindie. You are all upset about nothing.

Plus you just called me a parasite in a round about way because I posted a slight criticism of capitalism as it is the best we have but is not perfect. You hinted that the original post is about Communism which it is not. You do not know the meaning of the word. Just because I am Canadian does not make me a communist or a socialist. Canada is a "Just Society" with a sense of collective responsibility. It is a parliamentary pure democracy and constitutional monarchy. “Peace, order and good government” is a phrase used to describe Canadian government a lot.

Holy Cow! I looked up your SALT reference! Americans get to claim some of their state taxes against their federal taxes owed! Wow! How lucky can you get. We pay provincial tax on top of federal tax both calculated upon income. No similar deduction. We also pay property taxes to municipalities and have a 13% sales tax on goods and services.

The huge US tax cuts in 2017 helped the rich a lot more than the average person. Plus the rich got permanent cuts while those who actually pay taxes got what - two or three years? I forget the details and also how many trillion the debt increased from 2016-2020 with this tax cut helping to do that.

I have no idea the politics of the richest people on earth - nor do I care. This is NOT a political thread. It is about how capitalism is the best system we have but it needs to be monitored.

"Swift elevator down" is a Canadian talking point - never heard that phrase in US rhetoric. It is probably one of the nicer things Canadians think but don't say about America these days. Actually we are scared. Scared for America but scared for ourselves living so closely and tied so closely to the US.

No matter, wake up and smell the coffee because your semi democracy is in real danger. Because of luck they were stopped from killing Pelosi and hanging Pence. Sheer luck that a policeman led them on a wild goose chase, that someone had the courage to shoot a woman who was getting in and it gave others pause, that an aide had the presence of mind to take the ballots with them as they fled etc. Sheer luck that the coup failed. News is coming out about how much Congress and the military were sympathetic to it. We already know that 147 Republicans voted right after the coup to overturn the election results by any means possible. Some democracy trying to overturn a legitimate election because they lost. There has been absolutely no evidence of any major election fraud. Any fraud that turned up was for, not against the loser.

Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 11:27:40 PM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Hi Litindie,

It is fine to love and appreciate one's country. But to claim one's country is always the best is a bit much. (Exceptional right now in Covid deaths. I'll give you that.)

The US never was the greatest country on earth. You've been misled. I had decided not to post this story but just changed my mind. It is a long read but you should read and absorb it. I have not copied the part discussing Trump's attempted coup because this is not a political argument. It is about capitalism and the book is about capitalism running wild. It is American history that has never been taught and the book is written by an American. Spain, France, and England all have a history of imperialism and the violence and wiping out of cultures that happened. Even Canada is culpable domestically with her treatment of the indigenous, the same as the US but America's history of imperialism in other countries is often forgotten.


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/plot-against-american-democracy-isn-150056652.html

"Award-winning journalist Jonathan M. Katz’s new book, Gangsters of Capitalism: Smedley Butler, the Marines, and the Making and Breaking of America’s Empire, is an explosive deep dive into the forgotten history of American military imperialism in the early twentieth century."

copyright 2022, permission for reprint

"As long as the United States seemed eternally ascendant, it was easy to tell ourselves, as Americans, that the global dominance of U.S. capital and the unparalleled reach of the U.S. military had been coincidences, or fate; that America’s rise as a cultural and economic superpower was just natural — a galaxy of individual choices, freely made, by a planet hungry for an endless supply of Marvel superheroes and the perfect salty crunch of McDonald’s fries.

But the illusion is fading. The myth of American invulnerability was shattered by the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The attempt to recover a sense of dominance resulted in the catastrophic “forever wars” launched in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Somalia, and elsewhere. The deaths of well over half a million Americans in the coronavirus pandemic, and our seeming inability to halt or contend with the threats of climate change, are further reminders that we can neither accumulate nor consume our way out of a fragile and interconnected world."

"...It was not just Trump’s personal embodiment of fascist logic and authoritarian populism that should have prepared Americans for the Jan. 6 attack. Over a century of imperial violence had laid the groundwork for the siege at the heart of U.S. democracy."
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, January 2, 2022 11:32:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 10,368
Neurons: 59,233
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


I'm part way through the video, Epi. Thanks.
litindie
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 7:49:24 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
Neurons: 1,171
Hope123 wrote:
Litindie wrote:"Any person who PEDDLES LIES PURPOSELY in order to PROFIT FROM THEM (like SYSTEMIC RACISM, HUMAN-INDUCED Global Warming, Capitalism is bad/Socialism is good, etc...) is, in my world, an organism that lives on or in a host and gets its food from or at the expense of its host."

N.B. I can't stand Communism!

Now.
Your statement,"




You didn't read the article, did you, Litindie. You are all upset about nothing.

Plus you just called me a parasite in a round about way because I posted a slight criticism of capitalism as it is the best we have but is not perfect.




That's where the problem lies when I'm trying to interact with socialists.

There was NOTHING said or even implied that YOU were that organism.

I thought you had more reading comprehension.

My term of that "organism" was addressed to people like Sanders or aoc, or BLM co-founder Patrisse Khan-Cullors and her million-dollar real estate buying binge, etc...


"The US never was the greatest country on earth."

Let's not engage in some game of FLATULENCE IN THE WIND, please.


Next.

Sorry, no comment about that Katz's book.
LOL!

Holy Cow! I looked up your SALT reference! Americans get to claim some of their state taxes against their federal taxes owed!


You still didn't do your home work. Find more information about it.
It's Pelosi's idea to HELP the BILLIONAIRES!

Squad Votes for SALT Deduction That Bernie Sanders Branded a Tax Break for the Rich

From here:
https://www.newsweek.com/squad-votes-salt-deduction-that-bernie-sanders-branded-tax-break-rich-1651277



litindie
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 7:56:55 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
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Hope123 wrote:
Hi Litindie,

It is fine to love and appreciate one's country. But to claim one's country is always the best is a bit much. (Exceptional right now in Covid deaths. I'll give you that.)

Even Canada is culpable domestically with her treatment of the indigenous, the same as the US but America's history of imperialism in other countries is often forgotten.




What a pathetic statement.



I'd like for you to start learning something.

Human sacrifice was common in many parts of Mesoamerica, so the rite was nothing new to the Aztecs when they arrived at the Valley of Mexico, nor was it something unique to pre-Columbian Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacrifice_in_Aztec_culture
litindie
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 8:13:31 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
Neurons: 1,171
Hope123 wrote:

There has been absolutely no evidence of any major election fraud. Any fraud that turned up was for, not against the loser.



I doubt that your biased opinion could help us to get to the bottom of that statement.

And here is why.

Thanks to the CHINESE-unleashed Covid-19 Pandemic, the Democrats were able (in very specific cities/locations/states) to remove the SAFEGUARDS of our sacred VOTING PROCEDURES. With those ad-hoc created MAIL-IN voting rules - NO SAFEGUARDS WHATSOEVER(!) - it was EASY for the Socialist/Democrat activists - sponsored by the BILLIONAIRES like Zuckerman (up to $300,000,000 spent on that "HELP) - to "properly"(LOL) process those "sent-to-everyone", and MOSTLY NEGLECTED mail-in ballots.
Those illegal new MAIL-IN procedures seriously damaged the INTEGRITY of our VOTING system.
Even signatures were not REQUIRED TO MATCH!!!

N.B. That kind of parody of VOTING would not be allowed in any European (Socialist) countries!

I think I've said enough.



Lotje1000
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 8:30:40 AM

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Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
Hi litindie. In order to help you get your point across in a reasonable discussion, please do the following:

- Stop using all caps.
- Stop speaking condescendingly towards fellow forum members.
- Start providing sources to back up your opinions.
- Stay on topic.
thar
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 8:41:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 25,768
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I don't want to fan any flames or get burnt myself, but I just have to comment.
If you find yourself in a fight with a close-minded argumentative person, that is their fault. If you find yourself in a fight with a thoughtful, open-minded person who is willing to listen to you while you shout at them, I think you will find that is your fault.
Just hypothetically. Whistle


(edit starting writing before I saw Lotje's post)



Hope123
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 10:50:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Litindie, since you are fairly new to the Forum, I'm giving you a pass on not knowing that the Politics sub forum was disbanded because it became too emotional. This was to be a thread about what could be done by business leaders of the world to try to solve the inequities of the top few people in the world owning more that the bottom billions - as we've discussed many times before on the forum. It is in the Financial sub forum and therefore the discussion should be financial. The article is written by a thoughtful expert in the matter.

While the richest 10% of adults in the world own 85% of global household wealth, the bottom half collectively owns barely 1%. Even more strikingly, the average person in the top 10% owns nearly 3,000 times the wealth of the average person in the bottom 10%.

Who knew such a discussion would bring about such fear and anxiety of communism and socialism that the thread lost the topic when the fear in the US, and about the US in the world, right now is the attacks on and dwindling of democracy there.

The article ended with this statement about business leaders "...they’ll also need to embrace a much bolder agenda that maximizes opportunities for everyone in the economy."

I thought that that is a worthwhile goal and the professor's suggestions sound workable. I just had wondered if anyone disagreed with the suggestions or had other ideas for business leaders as some of you may be in business yourself or own your own businesses.

If posts continue to be political, the admins will delete the thread before discussion of the topic - but no matter, the thread is now dead anyhow.
litindie
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 11:33:13 AM
Rank: Member

Joined: 10/20/2021
Posts: 124
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Hope123 wrote:
Litindie, since you are fairly new to the Forum, I'm giving you a pass o
If posts continue to be political, the admins will delete the thread before discussion of the topic - but no matter, the thread is now dead anyhow.


My dear "friend" from Canada.
Don't you worry about the Democracy situation in the Greatest Country on Earth.
After the next election, America will restore its dignity, its sanity, its Rule of Law, its Constitution.

And YES, your posts and/or your links to other similar comments about "SAVING THE WORLD from bad capitalists" has produced some "emotional" reaction from that "nasty" litinde due to the following reason: litindie had no idea that at the Free Dictionary forum one could spread those old, regurgitated POLITICAL FALLACIES of failed Communism, but...

I must acknowledge my stupidity - I have responded to your ... comment.
And I'm sorry for my uncouth actions that shook the foundation of this Forum rules of Decorum.

Hope123
Posted: Monday, January 3, 2022 12:33:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 10,368
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Litindie,

Your passive-aggressive apology is accepted. See you on other sub forums.

PS - we do not spread fallacies on this forum. This is not the time for me to explain what communism and socialism are and are not.

We learn from each other and sometimes have a little fun doing so. We even try to help learners of the English language such as sb70012.

So you are welcome to continue if you'd like to do that. Admins have decreed no politics on any sub forum. It was not our decision.

Plus you CAN delete your post within a few minutes and edit it up to three hours. You CAN create new topics and reply to topics. Once you have so many posts you no longer need to do the captcha proving you are not a robot. You are correct - no polls on this language forum. There are other forums that do that if that is your desire.

Stay safe.

Hope123, your "friend" ;)

litindie
Posted: Friday, January 14, 2022 1:04:11 PM
Rank: Member

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Posts: 124
Neurons: 1,171
Hope123 wrote:
Litindie,

Your passive-aggressive apology is accepted. See you on other sub forums.

PS - we do not spread fallacies on this forum. This is not the time for me to explain what communism and socialism are and are not.






Hope,

My problem is not with any LIBERAL or SOCIALIST, or COMMUNIST supporter.
My problem is about the LIES(!) those "socialists" and their media sources are spreading.
I can discuss any subject tactfully, but I can't stand any LIES!

This is the Business and Finance forum; therefore, here is one example of my pet peeves about the "socialist" (U.S.) media.

The headline at TheHill "screams",

"More than 30 million families to lose child tax credit checks."

The first paragraph of that news/article says something different:

"Millions of families this weekend will stop receiving monthly child tax payments."

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/589704-more-than-30-million-families-to-lose-child-tax-credit-checks-starting-this

To sum up.

It has NOTHING to do with any kind of TAXES!

You don't need to work or pay ANY TAXES in order to receive that WELFARE, mimicked as "CHILD TAX CREDIT."

What is a tax credit?


"A tax credit is an amount of money that taxpayers can subtract directly from taxes owed to their government."


We can talk about any WELFARE projects, ideas, but only if use the same terminology.










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