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Beach handball athletes fined for not selling sex Options
thar
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:56:15 AM

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In this day and age, you still get people who think this is OK


Quote:
European Beach Handball Championships: Norway hit with 1,500 euros bikini fine

Norway have been fined 1,500 euros (£1,295) for wearing shorts instead of bikini bottoms at the European Beach Handball Championships.

The European Handball Federation (EHF) said it had imposed the fine because of a case of "improper clothing".

Norway's players wore shorts instead of bikini bottoms during a bronze medal match against Spain in Varna, Bulgaria.

Norway's Handball Federation (NHF) had already stated it would pay if their players were fined.

An EHF statement said a disciplinary commission had imposed a fine of "150 euros per player, for a total of 1,500 euros".

It added that Norway had played with shorts that are "not according to the athlete uniform regulations defined in the IHF [International Handball Federation] beach handball rules of the game."

Kare Geir Lio, the head of NHF, had told news agency AFP any penalty would be paid but added: "It should be a free choice within a standardised framework.

"The most important thing is to have equipment that athletes are comfortable with."

Before the Championships, Norway approached the EHF to ask for permission to play in shorts but were told that breaches of the rules were punishable by fines.

A Norwegian motion to amend the current rules will be discussed by the bodies in the coming months.

"The EHF is committed to bring this topic forward in the interest of its member federations - however, it must also be said that a change of the rules can only happen at IHF level," said EHF spokesman Andrew Barringer.

The issue has been debated in beach sports circles for several years as some players find the bikini both degrading and impractical.






Beach volleyball already relented and gymnasts have pushed against expectations, but the idea you would fine a competitor for not wearing bikini bottoms still exists.

Quote:
German gymnasts' outfits take on sexualisation in sport
Published23 April



Germany's Sarah Voss performs on the balance beam during the women's qualification round of the 2021 European Artistic Gymnastics Championships in the St. Jakobshalle in Basel, Switzerland, 21 April 2021
IMAGE COPYRIGHTEPA
image captionSarah Voss said she hoped other gymnasts would follow the team's example
She did not break any rules, but Sarah Voss's full-body suit this week at the European Artistic Gymnastics Championships defied convention.

Until now women and girls have only covered their legs in international competition for religious reasons.

Voss, from Germany, said she was proud of her decision and she was supported by her country's gymnastics federation.

Two team-mates then did the same on Friday, wearing full-body suits during the women's all-around final.

The German federation (DTB) said its gymnasts performing in the Swiss city of Basel were taking a stand against "sexualisation in gymnastics", adding that the issue had become all the more important to prevent sexual abuse.

"We hope gymnasts uncomfortable in the usual outfits will feel emboldened to follow our example," said Voss.

Kim Bui of Germany competes on the beam during the Women's Artistic Gymnastics Finals at St. Jakobshalle on April 23, 2021 in Basel, Switzerland
IMAGE COPYRIGHTGETTY IMAGES
image captionKim Bui took to the beam in a full-body suit two days after Sarah Voss had done so in Basel
Kim Bui had initially performed in a conventional leotard on Wednesday but said they had wanted to set an example as a team. Elisabeth Seitz said earlier that it was one less thing to worry about, as there was no risk of revealing anything by accident.

'I began feeling increasingly uncomfortable'
Voss explained her decision in an interview with public broadcaster ZDF: "We women all want to feel good in our skin. In the sport of gymnastics it gets harder and harder as you grow out of your child's body. As a little girl I didn't see the tight gym outfits as such a big deal. But when puberty began, when my period came, I began feeling increasingly uncomfortable."

The German federation said sport and gymnastics should be fields where female athletes felt comfortable in their clothing at all times.

In a message posted on Instagram on Thursday, Voss described the decision as a project "close to the hearts of our team". Her performance on the beam had not gone as well as she had hoped, she said, but her message won widespread praise. "Feeling good and still looking elegant? Why not?" she wrote.

Under the rules of the international gymnastics federation (FIG) competitors are allowed to wear a "one-piece leotard with full-length legs - hip to ankle", provided it is of elegant design.

Seitz said everyone trained in full-body outfits and then at one point asked themselves why they should not do the same in competition.

Beth Tweddle on puberty & women's sport
Dutch Gymnastics has also praised the move. A spokesman told public broadcaster NOS that judges had often deducted points when a competitor had tried to make her leotard more comfortable during their performance.


image captionElizabeth Seitz came fifth on Friday in the women's all-around final
Voss said that while she had never herself been abused, she and her colleagues were role models for younger athletes and wanted to encourage everyone to stand up for themselves.

US gymnast Simone Biles, who has said she was sexually abused by jailed sports doctor Larry Nassar, said last week that one reason she was competing at the Tokyo Olympics this year was to speak out and give survivors of abuse a voice.



Unbelievable


Let the male organisers expose their bodies and get sand up their arses to sell their product!



Sources https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/handball/57890430 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56858863

In the spirit of solidarity and teamwork, this post seems to have omitted all my "i" s. Or maybe it is just my system. Anyway, sorry if this appears on your screen as a 'bring your own letter i' post.
Lotje1000
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:59:29 AM

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Thanks for posting about it. I'd heard about the handball issue but the gymnastics one is new to me. And all so very very bizarre.

It reminds me of how, back in high school PE class, all girls in my school were forced to wear tight shorts instead of the regular loose shorts like the boys. It'll forever be a mystery why there are so many gender-based clothing regulations for no obvious reason.
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:19:25 AM

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Lotje, I know what you meant but there is an obvious reason. Whistle Male organizers.
Lotje1000
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:45:25 AM

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Oh sorry, I should have said reasonable reasons.
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 12:21:13 PM

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I agree that the women should be able to wear whatever they feel comfortable with, but the reason for insisting on bikini's seems obvious to me - it's all about the money.

The competitions draw viewers, and with women's sports, men will more rapidly watch if the toned, and attractive women are wearing bikini's rather than leotards. Men like to look at the bodies of fit, attractive women. It's just nature. It doesn't matter whether we like it or not, that will always be true. So in a effort to draw more eyeballs, and profits (as a result of ratings through viewership numbers) , the EHF would like the women to wear bikini bottoms.
towan52
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:16:17 PM

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FounDit wrote:
I agree that the women should be able to wear whatever they feel comfortable with, but the reason for insisting on bikini's seems obvious to me - it's all about the money.

The competitions draw viewers, and with women's sports, men will more rapidly watch if the toned, and attractive women are wearing bikini's rather than leotards. Men like to look at the bodies of fit, attractive women. It's just nature. It doesn't matter whether we like it or not, that will always be true. So in a effort to draw more eyeballs, and profits (as a result of ratings through viewership numbers) , the EHF would like the women to wear bikini bottoms.


Is this why you sometimes cross-dress? Whistle
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 9:34:10 PM

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d'oh!
Lotje1000 wrote:
Oh sorry, I should have said reasonable reasons.


Applause Applause Applause

Right! There are no reasonable reasons why women should be forced to be objectified in order to enter official games. Money should not be the bottom line. (Pun not really intended. Angel )

Eww. I thought about saying men should be made to do the same and then the awful picture of men jumping around in Speedos won't go away.
Lotje1000
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 3:33:53 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
d'oh!
Lotje1000 wrote:
Oh sorry, I should have said reasonable reasons.


Applause Applause Applause

Right! There are no reasonable reasons why women should be forced to be objectified in order to enter official games. Money should not be the bottom line. (Pun not really intended. Angel )

Eww. I thought about saying men should be made to do the same and then the awful picture of men jumping around in Speedos won't go away.


Equal rights, Hope - men should be allowed to wear what they want, too. Be that shorts or skirts while it's warm, or speedos in places where speedos are appropriate!
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 4:01:29 AM

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In pétanque the clothing code is trousers, shoes (not sandals), a shirt with sleeves. This is for both genres.




When I'm looking women's football, I'm looking football more than women.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 7:27:06 AM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
d'oh!
Lotje1000 wrote:
Oh sorry, I should have said reasonable reasons.


Applause Applause Applause

Right! There are no reasonable reasons why women should be forced to be objectified in order to enter official games. Money should not be the bottom line. (Pun not really intended. Angel )

Eww. I thought about saying men should be made to do the same and then the awful picture of men jumping around in Speedos won't go away.


Equal rights, Hope - men should be allowed to wear what they want, too. Be that shorts or skirts while it's warm, or speedos in places where speedos are appropriate!


Well of course, Lotje. But it doesn't mean it would be pretty. lol

Maybe that is why I don't remember seeing many Speedos on beaches.

Also, I have heard men say that a one piece bathing suit is actually just as, if not more, sexier than a skimpy bikini.

But I digress as this topic is about mandating clothing during sports. Maybe they should stop "man"dating. Whistle

JJ, is that a recent photo?
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 7:50:03 AM

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To pretend that the way athletes are costumed has no bearing on the way they are perceived would be naïve. There is a reason that Olympic beach volleyball players are often photographed in parts rather than as whole humans: close-ups of butts and torsos and chests rather than as living, breathing, moving marvels. To force female athletes to wear outfits they feel fundamentally limited by or uncomfortable in only serves to perpetuate the idea that they exist, first and foremost, to be consumed. The men can play. The women are putting on a show...No law, regulation or rule is infallible. Guidelines are made to be updated, to evolve with the times and to correct past harms. Ostensibly, in sports, rules exist to make sure that there is as much parity among competitors as possible, to ensure that the terms of the game are known before it starts. The width of a bikini band has no bearing on these terms.
At the end of the day, the focus should be on the physical abilities of beach handball players, not the number of centimeters the seams of their uniforms are from their vulvas. If the athletes who play beach handball are demanding change, ignoring them sends the message that the ability of the public to leer at female bodies is more important than the sport itself.


https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/norwegian-beach-handball-bikini-debacle-absurdly-archaic-n1274544
thar
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 9:14:52 AM

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One funny thing to come out of this şems to be that many people (Americans I am guessing?) don't seem to realise that handball is a sport. The number of articles that refer to handball and volleyball interchangeably...
I am not referring to Hope's quote here, because that does not imply they are the same, just that the issue is the same.

Re the whole topic
It does seem to be a control thing, as well. That women have to be told what to wear. Either to be more sexy, or to be less revealing. Never to just be comfortable.
Bikinis to burkinis (even the term is derogatory and disrespectful) it is all about control. Men who are are incapable of seeing women as other than objects, or terrified of not having control over them.

American article writers - a lot of people around the world play handball. It's like basketball at 10x speed and far more aggressive attacking.
Olympics 2020, mens handball
Norway, Brazil, France, Argentina, Sweden, Bahrain, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Egypt, Denmark, Japan
Women's handball
Netherlands, Japan, ROC (Russians not Russia because Russia systemically cheats with drugs), Brazil, Montenegro, Angola, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Hungary, France.

Trouble with beach handball seems to me is you can't bounce the ball which is important in handball. So it makes it a completely different game. Still end up flying full length into the sand with bikini bottoms twisted up your backside, though.
It would be fun to play (I think most kids end up playing something similar on a beach even of they have never heard of handball) and fun to watch people having fun - but as as televised sport I suspect it is marketed for guys who like to see half-naked women from behind.



FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 11:47:15 AM

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There are several issues co-mingled in this topic: the Olympic sport of beach volleyball, profits, and male sexual nature. On the issue of "control", that is just a means to an end, which I believe is profit, rather than simply deciding and "controlling" what the players may wear.

The sport is beach volleyball, which in itself conjures up the mental images of people wearing bathing apparel and playing volleyball. If some of those players are female, then males will likely prefer to envision fit young women in bikinis. That is just the nature of the male. And while males may also play the game, they will not have the same effect on female viewers as females will on male viewers. That is simply a fact.

One of the best articles I've come across on that topic is one written by Dennis Prager on Male Sexual Nature. This is a short piece from it.

Quote:
"Largely because of the power of the visual, men sexually objectify women. This means that men’s initial reaction to a woman’s body is to see it as a sex object. Women’s breasts, thighs, legs, and buttocks arouse men — even without seeing the women’s faces. For other men, it can be women’s feet. There are websites dedicated to pictures of women’s feet, armpits, legs, crossed legs, thighs, buttocks, and breasts. There are no commensurate websites for women to stare at men’s thighs or crossed legs, let alone men’s feet or armpits.

All of which means that sexual objectification of women is natural to men. It is not the product of a patriarchal, Playboy-influenced, sexist, or misogynist society.

Nor does it mean that objectification is “misogynistic.” If heterosexual men are woman-haters because they sexually objectify women, then gay men are man-haters because they sexually objectify men. It is repeatedly said — primarily by the college-educated — that the male sexual objectification of women is an expression of misogyny. This is nonsense. The single greatest proof is that gay men sexually objectify men. If heterosexual men are woman-haters because they sexually objectify women, then gay men are man-haters because they sexually objectify men."


Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Wednesday, July 21, 2021 11:48:34 PM

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Hope123 wrote:
I thought about saying men should be made to do the same and then the awful picture of men jumping around in Speedos won't go away.

Yeah - not quite the same impact.


Lotje1000
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 2:35:07 AM

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FounDit wrote:
There are several issues co-mingled in this topic: the Olympic sport of beach volleyball, profits, and male sexual nature. On the issue of "control", that is just a means to an end, which I believe is profit, rather than simply deciding and "controlling" what the players may wear.


Just FYI, the OP was about handball, not volleyball - as Thar pointed out.

FounDit wrote:
The sport is beach volleyball, which in itself conjures up the mental images of people wearing bathing apparel and playing volleyball. If some of those players are female, then males will likely prefer to envision fit young women in bikinis. That is just the nature of the male. And while males may also play the game, they will not have the same effect on female viewers as females will on male viewers. That is simply a fact.


Stating it is a fact hardly makes it so. Your opinion on the effect women have on men is very short sighted with regards to pretty much all genders, now that I think of it. Men certainly have an effect on women. Men have an effect on other men, women on other women and I'm sure more combinations besides.

Additionally, it's rather insulting to men that they would be so bound by the 'nature of men' that they are incapable of not reducing an entire group of people to anything other than physical parts. And, in fact, that they value it so highly they will actively promote and enforce a system that continues to reduce women to those parts.

FounDit wrote:
One of the best articles I've come across on that topic is one written by Dennis Prager on Male Sexual Nature. This is a short piece from it.

Quote:
[color=black]"Largely because of the power of the visual, men sexually objectify women. This means that men’s initial reaction to a woman’s body is to see it as a sex object. Women’s breasts, thighs, legs, and buttocks arouse men — even without seeing the women’s faces. For other men, it can be women’s feet. There are websites dedicated to pictures of women’s feet, armpits, legs, crossed legs, thighs, buttocks, and breasts. There are no commensurate websites for women to stare at men’s thighs or crossed legs, let alone men’s feet or armpits.

All of which means that sexual objectification of women is natural to men. It is not the product of a patriarchal, Playboy-influenced, sexist, or misogynist society.

Nor does it mean that objectification is “misogynistic.” If heterosexual men are woman-haters because they sexually objectify women, then gay men are man-haters because they sexually objectify men. It is repeatedly said — primarily by the college-educated — that the male sexual objectification of women is an expression of misogyny. This is nonsense. The single greatest proof is that gay men sexually objectify men. If heterosexual men are woman-haters because they sexually objectify women, then gay men are man-haters because they sexually objectify men."


I won't pretend I've read the whole thing you linked to because I already gave up after the quoted paragraphs. It smacks of a keenness to dodge all responsibility by claiming 'biology made me do it'.

There's biological impulses and then there's learned behaviour. Claiming that objectification of women is not a product of society is extremely short-sighted. Objectifying women is misogynistic, because you're people with impulses and impulse control. There are enough men and women out there who find other people attractive and still don't make those thoughts and impulses someone else's problem. The 'single greatest proof' is that if a gay man sexually objectifies another man, it's also a problem.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 10:40:22 AM

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Oh my, Drago.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 12:05:27 PM

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Lotje1000 wrote:


I won't pretend I've read the whole thing you linked to because I already gave up after the quoted paragraphs. It smacks of a keenness to dodge all responsibility by claiming 'biology made me do it'.

There's biological impulses and then there's learned behaviour. Claiming that objectification of women is not a product of society is extremely short-sighted. Objectifying women is misogynistic, because you're people with impulses and impulse control. There are enough men and women out there who find other people attractive and still don't make those thoughts and impulses someone else's problem. The 'single greatest proof' is that if a gay man sexually objectifies another man, it's also a problem.


Another quote from the article you didn't read which, I think, clearly explains your viewpoint. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion:

But regarding male sexual nature, unless girls and women are taught about male sexual nature — and few are, especially in our time — there is no way they can understand male sexual nature. It may be the one area of life wherein men are more capable of understanding women.

The second reason is modern feminism — and leftist doctrine in general. Each has contributed to an unprecedented female ignorance — denial, actually — of male sexuality. And that is the result of a basic impulse of feminists and leftists: the denial of truths that make them uncomfortable.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 3:54:04 PM

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FounDit wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:


I won't pretend I've read the whole thing you linked to because I already gave up after the quoted paragraphs. It smacks of a keenness to dodge all responsibility by claiming 'biology made me do it'.

There's biological impulses and then there's learned behaviour. Claiming that objectification of women is not a product of society is extremely short-sighted. Objectifying women is misogynistic, because you're people with impulses and impulse control. There are enough men and women out there who find other people attractive and still don't make those thoughts and impulses someone else's problem. The 'single greatest proof' is that if a gay man sexually objectifies another man, it's also a problem.


Another quote from the article you didn't read which, I think, clearly explains your viewpoint. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion:

But regarding male sexual nature, unless girls and women are taught about male sexual nature — and few are, especially in our time — there is no way they can understand male sexual nature. It may be the one area of life wherein men are more capable of understanding women.

The second reason is modern feminism — and leftist doctrine in general. Each has contributed to an unprecedented female ignorance — denial, actually — of male sexuality. And that is the result of a basic impulse of feminists and leftists: the denial of truths that make them uncomfortable.


I know you are talking to Lotje, and do not read my posts. But what the hell -

As Lotje says in so many words, there's a difference between looking and leering and BOYS should be taught the difference by their parents, learn to control their impulses, and to RESPECT women. Feeling entitled to everything (by everybody actually) these days, including women by men, is a big problem in society.

And the bikinis during sports are definitely for leering.

I didn't need to tell him but I did tell my husband-to-be 60 years ago - "look but don't handle the merchandise". He turned 90 this year and still subtly appreciates a beautiful female body. BTW - women appreciate beautiful male bodies too.

FD, you are sadly mistaken if you think females are not aware of male testosterone and their desire to "get into the pants" of every female they see.

As tweens I told my granddaughters to believe what boys do, not what they say. And their parents made sure they knew too. After all it is the father who knows what males are like and is more responsible for cautioning their daughters. What a fatuous statement to blame it on females, and "feminists and leftists". Boo hoo! (The one track male mind is supposed to be about sex - not leftists. 😀)

I remember our son telling us about making a joke to a friend about our son needing to protect his girls - he said to the friend with a son: "You have one prick to worry about, I have hundreds". Applause

My older gran is now engaged to be married. The younger one told me she was not interested in the boys in high school as all they wanted to talk about and do was drugs. Sensible girl. She's at uni now and once Covid is over maybe she'll meet a nice youth there.

As for the blanket statement of men understanding women, that is hilarious. Most men claim the opposite.

::::::::

When considering some of your other viewpoints in other threads over the years, I find it ironical that you call others out re "denial of truth".




Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, July 23, 2021 2:47:10 AM

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FounDit wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:


I won't pretend I've read the whole thing you linked to because I already gave up after the quoted paragraphs. It smacks of a keenness to dodge all responsibility by claiming 'biology made me do it'.

There's biological impulses and then there's learned behaviour. Claiming that objectification of women is not a product of society is extremely short-sighted. Objectifying women is misogynistic, because you're people with impulses and impulse control. There are enough men and women out there who find other people attractive and still don't make those thoughts and impulses someone else's problem. The 'single greatest proof' is that if a gay man sexually objectifies another man, it's also a problem.


Another quote from the article you didn't read which, I think, clearly explains your viewpoint. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion:

But regarding male sexual nature, unless girls and women are taught about male sexual nature — and few are, especially in our time — there is no way they can understand male sexual nature. It may be the one area of life wherein men are more capable of understanding women.

The second reason is modern feminism — and leftist doctrine in general. Each has contributed to an unprecedented female ignorance — denial, actually — of male sexuality. And that is the result of a basic impulse of feminists and leftists: the denial of truths that make them uncomfortable.


Yes, thank you! That's another great example of how the article dodges responsibility and remains short-sighted. Because I didn't read the article, I didn't realize it was politically stunted, too, but I appreciate you pointing out.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, July 23, 2021 4:55:46 PM

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I just can't but wonder how the simple question about human rights turned political, and about feminism and leftism. Thar and others have talked about the right of every individual to decide what kind of garment they would like to use while playing.

The Texan trumpists seem to concider these things with their balls rather than with their brains.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, July 23, 2021 6:56:17 PM

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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
I just can't but wonder how the simple question about human rights turned political, and about feminism and leftism. Thar and others have talked about the right of every individual to decide what kind of garment they would like to use while playing.

The Texan trumpists seem to concider these things with their balls rather than with their brains.


Question: When have human rights not related to politics and culture?
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