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Thoughts on the Derek Chauvin Trial Options
Robert Kane
Posted: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 8:28:08 AM

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Location: San Jose, California, United States
I thought the law professor, who was an excessive force specialist for the prosecution, was one of their best witnesses. Having to watch that nine minute video over and over again during the trial was painful enough. But watching it while being stopped every few seconds was truly horrific. However, the law professor’s analysis of the video, moment by moment, I thought, was some of the most damaging testimony against Derek Chauvin. Chauvin’s complete indifference to what he was doing to George Floyd, and his total lack of concern and his casual Ho-hum attitude to the fact that he was killing another human being, is so beyond my comprehension. What an absolute monster!
Robert Kane
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2021 7:50:57 AM

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As many have said, justice has not yet been served, but at least accountability won out this time. Now the work really begins. Will this verdict finally be the catalyst for real change when it comes to everything regarding race relations in this country? Only time will tell. I pray to God every day that it will.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2021 11:20:21 AM

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I don't find it quite that simple. In every interaction between two people, both play a part. Floyd broke the law when he tried to pass a counterfeit bill. The police are charged by the rest of us in society with enforcing the law.

When Floyd was questioned by the police, he became agitated because he had ingested a lethal dose of fentanyl, which, as he became more agitated, caused his breathing to become labored and eventually stop.

He could have avoided all of that be behaving properly. He could have obeyed the instructions of the officers. He could have gotten into the police car when asked. He could have told the police he had ingested drugs and needed medical help, and they would have taken him to a hospital. He could have simply behaved like a normal, intelligent, human being, but he chose to behave like a fool and paid the price for it with his own death at his own hands.

Officer Chavin should have not been charged, nor convicted in my opinion. But we no longer have a justice system that is impartial and reasonable. We now live under mob rule where emotion and political ideology convict and sometimes kill.

It's the insanity of Saint Bartholomew's Day, or the Salem Witch Trials passing itself off as justice. But I think it's about to get fixed. I certainly hope so, because we can't continue in this way without all of us paying a very high price we aren't going to enjoy paying.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2021 9:20:38 PM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FD, All those arguments you tried to make are subterfuge, excuses, moot, and beside the point.

There is only one relevant point - Floyd's neck was compressed so he could not breathe.



Nine minutes while he was on the ground in handcuffs? Even after he stopped talking, struggling so he could breathe, and finally breathing? C'mon. Who in their right mind, kneels on another human’s neck and ignores desperate pleas of “I Can’t Breathe”?

The fentanyl did not kill Floyd. It was not lethal. He did not deserve to die because he had some in his system. He did not deserve to die for $20. He did not deserve to die because he struggled against arrest.

Sounds like Les Miserables times in the US with the small infractions that are getting black people killed.

$20
A box of cigars.
A defective light on a car.
Reaching for a licence.
An air freshener on rear view mirror.

Also -

Did George Floyd know the bill was counterfeit?

Have you seen a video of what happened before he was knelt upon and know exactly how it all went down?

Did you know authorities are looking at adding charges because of Chauvin's kneeling on a black kid's neck in 2017 for 17 minutes while he said he couldn't breathe? Apparently there were other times when Chauvin got away with it so he kept doing it. Even taught it.

How is kneeling on someone's neck even legal?

FounDit wrote: "We now live under mob rule where emotion and political ideology convict and sometimes kill."

Do you not see the irony of using this argument when a relevant case of people dying January 6th because of political ideology is not in your mirror because this fits your agenda better?

The mob rule part is no longer true with new leaders. Those thugs are being charged and jailed. Just as Chauvin's verdict was just. The defence had no purchase in this trial. But without the video, Chauvin would have walked because he was police.

I'd be interested to know what this sentence means: Foundit wrote: But I think it's about to get fixed. I certainly hope so, because we can't continue in this way without all of us paying a very high price we aren't going to enjoy paying.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, April 23, 2021 10:43:53 PM

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Got posted twice.
lazarius
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2021 3:59:11 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
There is only one relevant point - Floyd's neck was compressed so he could not breathe.

I haven't studied the American law but I'm quite conversant with the Criminal Code of Canada. What the TS says wouldn't have been considered murder:

Quote:
Chauvin’s complete indifference to what he was doing to George Floyd, and his total lack of concern and his casual Ho-hum attitude

It's a different sort of offence:

Quote:
Criminal negligence
219 (1) Every one is criminally negligent who

(a) in doing anything, or
(b) in omitting to do anything that it is his duty to do,

shows wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons.

-
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2021 6:18:24 AM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
lazarius wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
There is only one relevant point - Floyd's neck was compressed so he could not breathe.

I haven't studied the American law but I'm quite conversant with the Criminal Code of Canada. What the TS says wouldn't have been considered murder:

Quote:
Chauvin’s complete indifference to what he was doing to George Floyd, and his total lack of concern and his casual Ho-hum attitude

It's a different sort of offence:

Quote:
Criminal negligence
219 (1) Every one is criminally negligent who

(a) in doing anything, or
(b) in omitting to do anything that it is his duty to do,

shows wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons.

-


I'm assuming US lawyers know US law.

Not sure what Canada has to do with this but it seems to be semantics between two countries as in Canada if convicted of criminal negligence the penalty is imprisonment for life. I had to look it up.

Causing death by criminal negligence

220 Every person who by criminal negligence causes death to another person is guilty of an indictable offence and liable

(a) where a firearm is used in the commission of the offence, to imprisonment for life and to a minimum punishment of imprisonment for a term of four years; and

(b) in any other case, to imprisonment for life.
Robert Kane
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2021 8:10:55 AM

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Location: San Jose, California, United States
FounDit - Your comments resemble the “blame the victim” mentality. Several witnesses testified that the amount of drugs in George Floyd’s body were not the cause of his death. It was stated by one of the witnesses that even a perfectly healthy person could not have survived what Derek Chauvin did to Floyd. It was the lack of oxygen that caused him to stop breathing. For 9 1/2 minutes Chauvin held his knee on Floyd’s neck. He looked all around at everyone else but could care less about the man he was killing. The look of arrogance on his face, the complete lack of concern! It was like he was reveling in knowing how much power he had, looking all around as if thinking, “Hey, look what I just did. Look at this big trophy I just won.” He should spend the rest of his life in prison, but apparently that won’t be the judge’s sentence.
lazarius
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2021 8:26:20 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
in Canada if convicted of criminal negligence the penalty is imprisonment for life.

When a minimum term is not stated it can be 0 years 0 months.

-
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2021 12:05:16 PM

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Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 15,996
Neurons: 76,374
Robert Kane wrote:
FounDit - Your comments resemble the “blame the victim” mentality. Several witnesses testified that the amount of drugs in George Floyd’s body were not the cause of his death. It was stated by one of the witnesses that even a perfectly healthy person could not have survived what Derek Chauvin did to Floyd. It was the lack of oxygen that caused him to stop breathing. For 9 1/2 minutes Chauvin held his knee on Floyd’s neck. He looked all around at everyone else but could care less about the man he was killing. The look of arrogance on his face, the complete lack of concern! It was like he was reveling in knowing how much power he had, looking all around as if thinking, “Hey, look what I just did. Look at this big trophy I just won.” He should spend the rest of his life in prison, but apparently that won’t be the judge’s sentence.


George Floyd DOES bear some responsibility for what happened to him for exactly the reasons I listed. Had he behaved, it would not have been necessary to pin him to the ground. Also, Chavin's knee was not on his neck but on his shoulder blade area, as the view from another angle showed.

Also, "one of the witnesses" is not a medial expert. The coroner's report stated he had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system. Floyd complained on not being able to breathe before an attempt to put him in the car was made.

The point is that every citizen has a duty and an obligation to obey the laws we ask our legislatures to make. Citizens are NOT permitted to disobey lawful orders given to them by law enforcement officers. The attitude of too many today is that they don't have to obey law enforcement. This will never end well for the person who does so.

It's real simple: Behave, and you won't have problems. Obey orders of law enforcement, and you won't have problems. Act as if you can behave any way you want, and it won't end well for you...period, full stop. No Excuses!


towan52
Posted: Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:53:34 PM

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Location: Waco, Texas, United States
The recently retired editor of the Washing Post was asked about the standard of news sources currently available. In reply he said it was generally a good thing to have multiple sources of news because that enables a wider perspective of news stories. However, he also opined that a large number of people chose news sources on the basis of affirmation rather than seeking information. If I remember his exact words it was something like "... Affirmation over information". I'm thinking that one regular poster uses the single source of the Patriot Post. Hence the basic contentions that policemen are always good and honorable people and that black men or women should be killed on the slightest pretext.
Here are a few sites that give a more moderate and accurate reporting ethic:
BBC News
The New York Times
PBS
Washington Post
NPR
UK Daily Telegraph

I'm just sayin'
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:32:08 AM

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Towan,

Add Helsingin Sanomat to the list.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2021 8:22:15 AM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
The knee on the back was introduced by defence to create doubt when in fact the knee only moved off the neck and onto the back when the medics approached.

An autopsy carried out by Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, in June last year concluded Floyd's death was a homicide.

The fentanyl and his health conditions were deemed irrelevant. He MIGHT have died later from disease or drugs but they were not the precipitating factors in the death at that instant.

Of course, obey the law and don't resist, makes good advice for any person interacting with police in any country, even if just a traffic stop. But the continuous assertion that if an American citizen just obeys the laws, keeps their head down, does not struggle when apprehended even if innocent, does not bear out the evidence of many cases where innocent black people are shot to death when not resisting while many whites are apprehended safely even while resisting or running away.

Hope123
Posted: Sunday, April 25, 2021 11:36:09 PM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
It's time to stop rationalizing preventable death.
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