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Toxic and Blatant Totalitarianism Options
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:12:24 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,955
Neurons: 71,499
Quote:

“Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.” —Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) May 16, 2017

“In reality they’re not after me. They’re after you I’m just in the way.” —Donald Trump, December 2019

On January 6, 2021, a terrible thing happened in Washington, DC. A small group of mostly Trump followers staged a violent riot at at the U.S. Capitol, causing death and destruction. Those who perpetrated it should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Yet something far more sinister has occurred ever since. In the most toxic and blatant outburst of totalitarian impulses this nation has ever witnessed, an American Left that fancies itself the sole arbiter of tolerance and bigotry, has broad-brushed 74 million Americans as de facto terrorists for harboring precisely the same doubts about the 2020 election as the speaker of the House did about the 2016 election. Even worse, America’s corporate oligarchy, sensing their moment for total control is at hand, is leading the charge, every goose step of the way.


Read the whole article here.

Then follow up with this one:

The woman just doesn't know when to stop talking.

Hillary



towan52
Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2021 11:46:53 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/2012
Posts: 2,034
Neurons: 230,769
Location: Waco, Texas, United States
The quotes are from The Patriot Post and the The Patriot Post

The bastion of reasoned thinking and truthful reporting (NOT)
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2021 1:22:50 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,346
Neurons: 510,493
Location: Cambridge, Minnesota, United States
Tantrums thrown by spoiled children are ugly. Tantrums thrown by spoiled adults are pathetic.
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2021 3:43:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/26/2014
Posts: 1,518
Neurons: 1,485,574
The difference between the 2016 election and the 2020 election is that Russia is known to have interfered in 2016 on little donny's behalf while in 2020 little donny told lies about the election for about a year prior and then tried to make those lies come true by appointing a lacky to sabotage the US Postal Service. Following the election, he repeatedly told more lies about it. He spent millions getting states to do recounts which only verified the initial results. He spent more of his supporter's money filing baseless accusations in courts which were all rejected for lack of supporting evidence. Then, like any good mob boss, he tried to strongarm Georgia's Secretary of State into "finding" votes that did not exist. His lies were the same tactic he used to try to discredit Obama with his birther conspiracy, repeat, repeat, repeat, and on and on. He is nothing more than the narcissistic bully on the grade school playground. In the Access Hollywood video he told us that he is at liberty to sexually assault any woman of his choosing and get away with it because of his celebrity. He's a spoiled child in an old man's body. All of his supporters have been proverbially "grabbed by the pussy" by little donny and, for some reason, don't seem to mind. They're even willing to commit murder for him, e.g., "Hang Mike Pence!" They, like you, have been lied to so much that they've become part of a cult that revere's its leader like Jim Jones. You, and the rest of little donny's supporters, may need therapy in order to see the World as it is instead of as your told it is. This may be difficult for you as many people are unable to accept that they've been played as suckers. Now's your chance to spill the Kool Aid and make a run for it. I suggest you take it. The real deep state, i.e., the military complex, now has their sights keenly focused on little donny's threat to Democracy. May they defend it without prejudice.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, January 14, 2021 3:44:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,998
Neurons: 57,037
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/01/14/vets-clean-up-capitol-seige/

Some vets are doing good things - a "Continue to Serve" movement cleaned up the mess left by the veterans who were at the storming of the Capitol.

Good for them - doing something constructive.

Upset by veterans who stormed the Capitol, these vets decided to clean up trash the mob left on the streets of D.C.

Romany
Posted: Friday, January 15, 2021 7:30:51 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 18,323
Neurons: 59,542
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

The President of the United States of America has been impeached. Because spreading misinformation such as that in the OP is classed as sedition.

As a result, the United States law prohibits the dissemination of such disinformation through the media.

Those who violate United States and International law by continuing the behaviour which has caused the first instance in history of a President being twice impeached; are guilty of sedition and treasonable behaviour which has been banned by all reputable media outlets.

The only two media sources now promulgating seditious and treasonable misinformation such as that above are both illegal entities which both operate in contravention of the laws of the land.

TFD is not a platform for spreading seditious and treasonable content. By allowing a platform for those who both publish and disseminate such information we all become complicit. And are ALL in contravention of the rules of this forum and United States law.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, January 15, 2021 11:50:33 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,998
Neurons: 57,037
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Romany wrote:

The President of the United States of America has been impeached. Because spreading misinformation such as that in the OP is classed as sedition.

As a result, the United States law prohibits the dissemination of such disinformation through the media.

Those who violate United States and International law by continuing the behaviour which has caused the first instance in history of a President being twice impeached; are guilty of sedition and treasonable behaviour which has been banned by all reputable media outlets.

The only two media sources now promulgating seditious and treasonable misinformation such as that above are both illegal entities which both operate in contravention of the laws of the land.

TFD is not a platform for spreading seditious and treasonable content. By allowing a platform for those who both publish and disseminate such information we all become complicit. And are ALL in contravention of the rules of this forum and United States law.


So somebody has to report the post to admin?

It wasn't a small group.

It was fine to question results at first. But after several recounts, all authorities including the supreme court verifying the results, and after 60 lawsuit losses, you would think anybody with a brain would accept the results and move on.

Trump set up the scenario for months - even started to call the 2016 one rigged - until he won. If they had counted the mail in ballots first, he'd have had no plan as Biden would have been ahead from the get go.

Republicans including lawmakers are still all about "Whataboutism". And whining about being called exactly what they are. The truth hurts.

The Democrats are not even in power yet so in no way can be a totalitarian government.
Romany
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2021 5:11:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 18,323
Neurons: 59,542
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Hope -

I just think we should approach TFD to actually enforce the rules of the Forum, and appoint one of the Admin staff as an Administrator. Hardly an unreasonable ask.

If the past 4 years have shown us anything its how quickly things break down when even one person gets to act with impunity.

Rationality, kindness, manners, and humour have all but disappeared: and posting something that someone might disagree with becomes an invitation to personal abuse, hysterical hyperbole and character assassination.

But yeah, even if it gets me banned, I'm damned if I'll let the cultist rhetoric which is being banned and taken down from Social Media flourish and be disseminated here without labelling it for what it is. Bullshit. Moronic bullshit. Seditious bullshit. Treasonous bullshit. Which America and the rest of the world have finally repudiated.

It's time for TFD admin to come out of the shadows.

Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2021 10:27:27 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,346
Neurons: 510,493
Location: Cambridge, Minnesota, United States
Romany wrote:

Hope -

I just think we should approach TFD to actually enforce the rules of the Forum, and appoint one of the Admin staff as an Administrator. Hardly an unreasonable ask.

If the past 4 years have shown us anything its how quickly things break down when even one person gets to act with impunity.

Rationality, kindness, manners, and humour have all but disappeared: and posting something that someone might disagree with becomes an invitation to personal abuse, hysterical hyperbole and character assassination.

But yeah, even if it gets me banned, I'm damned if I'll let the cultist rhetoric which is being banned and taken down from Social Media flourish and be disseminated here without labelling it for what it is. Bullshit. Moronic bullshit. Seditious bullshit. Treasonous bullshit. Which America and the rest of the world have finally repudiated.

It's time for TFD admin to come out of the shadows.


I don't know where they moderators are in the world or Farlex is based from, but if it is in the US then they very likely believe that any speech (especially hate, bigotry, guns, etc) is very specifically protected. The right-wing extremists in the US have created an environment where hate speech is glorified as hyper-patriotic.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2021 12:19:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,998
Neurons: 57,037
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Romany,

Admins were there before and did their job when notified that a poster was calling other posters liars and personal attacks on other posters have pretty much stopped. I noticed a big improvement in the tone of the Forum.

I'm not sure that this Original Post was seditious but if you think that, then you should notify admins and make your views known to them. Plus I don't really believe we are all complicit if seditious material were posted on the Forum. It is not our job to be monitors.

In my view the way to repudiate incorrect information is to correct it.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2021 1:51:44 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,998
Neurons: 57,037
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
It won’t stand. The French Revolution is instructive about many things, but above all else it reveals that those who lust for vengeance ultimately become its victims.

The opening sentence of the last paragraph of the article on the Original post link is true - except ironically they applied it to their way of thinking.

But those who attacked the Capitol with hate, with vengeance because their candidate lost, with physical attacks on the Police and the medía, had no idea that they would have to pay the consequences for a seditious act, both economical and criminal consequences. They idiotically boasted on TV and are their own judge and jury. They were their own worst enemy. They were so filled with hate that they stopped thinking. They thought somehow their whiteness would protect them. They were brainwashed that they are "Patriots", saving their country.

They are "easily led but volatile"...The worst aspect was that these rioters thought themselves good guys, justified in stealing, attacking police, beating up journalists, toileting al fresco, and trying to degrade better people than they by destroying their office furniture...The violence was hideous, with Washington police officer Michael Fanone, father of four daughters, realizing he was about to die and screaming to the rioters for mercy, that he had children. It looked like an IRA mob killing; he had feared he would be stripped and dragged down the steps. Fanone was hospitalized with a mild heart attack." There were other hideous examples of cruelty and degradation.

These were men with enough money to buy all the weapons, who drive big pickups, who have jobs - "bartenders, bar owners, welders, florists, local politicians, police, soldiers, firefighters —albeit jobs they were unable to hold for long." Thus it shows there are other reasons for their hatred than "being left behind". They are white men who perceive themselves as losers, and also as losing their "white" country.

These are men who are taught as children to behave this way instead of "No toy guns, no bullying, no swearing or stealing. Your word is your bond. Let people be different. Don’t hit girls. Don’t hit anyone. Think.

Think back in time to these men who were once toddlers. They were taught to be the way they are now. It was no accident." Quotes from Heather Mallick, Toronto Star.

And as the original post proves, other Trump supporters are now angry that they too are being lumped in with those rioters just because they are Trump supporters. They may not have taken the ultimate action - yet - threats still coming - but yes, just by enabling this guy who unashamedly enjoyed watching the Insurrection he egged on and helped to organize online, they too are complicit. They even continue to support him now as evidenced right here on this Forum, in the legislature, and in those threatening more violence.

Edited - If they were part of "The Big Lie", they need to know that the barricades and walls and boards and Guard deployments all around the country right now are a direct result of their cowardice and dishonesty. The rioting in DC was to cancel other peoples' votes, so they shouldn't be complaining about cancel culture.



They have all given Joe Biden and Kamala Harris a rare gift. They triggered a second impeachment. Democrats now have all three arms of government, the Republican party is split and in tatters, and although Biden has many enormous tasks and problems to solve, he has grown in power and in the ability to enact his agenda. He is not a president who is just playing a president for TV ratings.

Biden, Harris, Schumer, and Pelosi all look calm, capable, sane, disciplined, and leaders who will fulfill their duties to all Americans.

And Biden's plans to make a new American economy, not just put things back as they were, to deal with the pandemic, with climate change, with systemic injustice and economic racism, will be easier for him to achieve.
coag
Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2021 11:22:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 1,548
Neurons: 8,453
I read the articles on the links in the original post and I don't see reasons to take actions against FounDit. (The first time I heard of The Patriot Post is it's mentioning in this thread.)

The articles express the authors' opinion about the political situation in the US. I wouldn't characterize the articles as misinformation or hate speech.

If you call roughly one half of American population (according to Wikipedia, 47% of American voters voted for the Republican ticket in the 2020 election) deplorable, uneducated or rednecks, you shouldn't be surprised if someone says that you "fancy yourself the sole arbiter of tolerance and bigotry".

I read the TFD political forum little and, in that little that I've read, I haven't seen FounDit insulting someone. But I have seen other posters' comments which I deem insulting to FounDit.
Romany
Posted: Sunday, January 17, 2021 3:31:52 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 18,323
Neurons: 59,542
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Guys, First I just have to make very clear that nowhere did I refer to Foundit. Nowhere did I suggest taking action against anyone.

I even italicised what I meant, specifically, so that there there should be no mistake in what I genuinely thought would benefit the Forum at this stage.

Nothing drastic, nothing political, nothing personal: in fact the exact opposite. Just get the existing rules enforced.

A lot of them are just normal social rules of conduct and are things that most people already do. But members come from different cultures and may not be aware. As happened recently with the 'all caps' guy.
(If he'd read the rules he would have known - obviously.) But the buck has to stop somewhere. If he'd not had it explained to him by someone else finally, there should be someone from the Adminstrating staff to act as a moderator to explain/enforce these thing, not other posters.

Ours are, indeed, opinions: and whether correct or incorrect could go on being a cause for argument and rancour ad infinitum. The rules, on the other hand, have no opinion or bias.

They drew up a list of things to ensure (If observed)people may not flame..or slag off other people...or behave in ways TFD considers unacceptable. Thus it doesn't matter what any of us privately thinks about acceptable or unacceptable behaviour - on TFD X is what it is.


As to the overall sedition thing: if Trump's cult is now being labelled seditious doesn't that extend to its manifesto?

Ah, but you're right BD, I hadn't fully taken into consideration that an English & Dictionary site is as good a place as any to throw away rules and allow people their patriotic Right to use words to harm, upset, wound, mislead, spread misinformation, offend, harass. Bummer!Whistle
Andrew Schultz
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 12:37:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/7/2015
Posts: 436
Neurons: 5,700,961
Location: Chicago, Illinois, United States
Blaidd-Drwg wrote:
I don't know where they moderators are in the world or Farlex is based from, but if it is in the US then they very likely believe that any speech (especially hate, bigotry, guns, etc) is very specifically protected. The right-wing extremists in the US have created an environment where hate speech is glorified as hyper-patriotic.


"Farlex, Inc. is an independent, privately held company based in Huntingdon Valley, PA, offering online reference products." http://www.farlex.com/

To this I'd add a tweet of Mark Cuban's: https://twitter.com/mcuban/status/1347613767044124677

"Josh, let me explain Capitalism to you. Sometimes people decide not to do business with you. It's their decision. You know the whole "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" thing ? In your case it happens to be "No Principles, No Honesty, No Book" thing. Feel free to Self-Publish"

...I think we're getting to the point where we understand this, and right-wing edgelords no longer control the narrative on freedom of speech and expression. But it took too long and has cost a lot.

Romany, I agree with your statement. It was very hard to get existing rules enforced. And it's one reason I don't check in here as often as I'd like, because some people have some very good stuff here.

TL;DR: one persistently toxic person can ruin a forum even after they leave. If they're not tossed quickly, it takes a long time to heal. We had two here. But I am glad to still see subjects being opened and discussed.

But I would like to see the moderators get much more involved.

I remember someone spamming the forum in late October 2016 with pro-Trump posts. It took a bit of time to get down after I nagged the mods. I bet I was not the only one.

Then there was the one person who would not stop posting pro-Bashar Assad stuff. They swamped the forum several times and presented copyrighted materials as their own. It took me bugging the mods several times ... and I didn't know whom to bug!

As for the other person who just wouldn't shut up about Hillary Clinton being evil, even when nobody was talking about her--I think I saw a thread a couple weeks ago recounting what happened.

Let's just say that people who persistently do stuff that maybe doesn't break a ToS on its own can be flagged/suspended for, well, being persistently annoying, until they get the point. There need to be these judgement calls, and moderators do need to be active. Because people who try to get away with stuff do ruin a forum.

In this case I think persistent willful falsehoods or bad-faith arguments from known sources of propaganda merit at least some sort of warning but I'm not sure how and when to mete them out.

I've seen one or two disruptive posters drag a forum down in non-political contexts as well. Like on a writing forum where a handful of people drop by to give reviews that "only" insult about 10% of the entrants, but it's enough--think of Roman generals and decimation as an extreme case. Sure, people could stay--but the forum's no longer about writing or whatever. Instead it's about hoping the critic doesn't bomb the forum with their next rants. So it makes sense to find a healthier community/forum where fair rules are enforced better. I suspect many of us have, whether or not we still post here.
Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 4:43:42 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,998
Neurons: 57,037
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Any suggestions re other good forums, Andrew?
Epiphileon
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 4:48:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/2009
Posts: 4,325
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I really think we should petition TFD to remove the political sub-forum and rigorously ban any political posts. All the other sub-forums have educational value this one is lost to divisiveness and hostility.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 6:03:56 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 18,323
Neurons: 59,542
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Epi & Andrew -

Well you know my feelings: TFD is not, right now, a comfortable space to be in. Especially for women - as becomes obvious if you look at how many women are left. When the politics espoused includes misogyny, and racism, there are times I feel ashamed of being associated. (When the word "Chink" appeared in the title of a thread it sat there on the topics list for ages and ages before it got bumped out of sight: I did take a break then.)

I've related previously the real life effects of 'wicked words' but, to back up Andrews remarks, it bears repeating: - a poster who was both brown, and gay, and female became suicidal over the posts directed at women, people of colour and gay marriage etc. constantly promulgated by FD who, at that stage, was also quite open in saying he did it deliberately because it amused him! It gave him pleasure and allowed him constantly to ROFL, or, on red-letter days to ROFLMAO.

She & her partner had just moved to the USA and FD's prolific, irresponsible posts led her to believe that he represented the 'real' America. They had fled their country to escape persecution; and the guilt of displacing her partner for a place she felt they were now equally unsafe became overwhelming- at least they hadn't had to worry about being brown back home! Suddenly her private email went silent after a truly disturbing post she'd written the night before. That was a couple of years ago - and have never heard from her since. Her email account is no longer working.

Whatever happened to her, the ordinary rules of social discourse, had they been enforced, would have protected her (and other gay, and black, and female posters who left) such pain and mental anguish.

Sure, sticks and stones break our bones: but words can work like The Death by A Thousand Cuts; and destroy us completely.

BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 7:26:46 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,547
Neurons: 8,437
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Epiphileon wrote:
I really think we should petition TFD to remove the political sub-forum and rigorously ban any political posts. All the other sub-forums have educational value this one is lost to divisiveness and hostility.


Given the tardiness of the reaction of the admins in the past to racist, sexist, homophobic, etc, posts, a simpler and more effective idea might be for all who are disturbed by the lies and hatred spread in the politics forum to ignore the sub-forum completely.

When I checked a few minutes ago, only eleven of the sixty posts on the first page were started by FD or similar-minded people. If they had been ignored, they would have died very quickly. Many of the other forty-nine inevitably attracted responses from such people.

Ignore the politics forum, and the troublemakers will have no audience.

I know from personal experience how hard it can be to leave blatant lied unchallenged, but this may be the only way to deflate them.
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 12:37:34 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,346
Neurons: 510,493
Location: Cambridge, Minnesota, United States
If the politics section stays, it should be moderated more closely. If the moderators don't step up, it can be moderated (in a fashion) by the participants. However, that can only happen if those participants work together and are coordinated in their work.
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