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thar
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2020 5:52:01 AM

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I have been watching some industrial chemical accident videos (the moral seems to be never to do maintenance - the accidents almost always happen during maintenance or when plant is being started up again after maintenance) and got referred on to accident reports from the accident investigation organisation in British Columbia, and I see they use 'to fall trees' as a transitive verb, and the lumberjacks are 'fallers'.
Obviously I can understand what they mean, and it is the correct term used here - I am just interested in whether that is the common term, a technical term, and if it is also used in AmE or other variations.
To me, you fell the tree, (and the tree falls). And the person who does it is the tree feller.
To fall a tree is new to me, and I am slightly surprised I have never heard it if it is that common in Canadian English.

Orson Burleigh
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2020 9:50:15 AM

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Location: Annapolis, Maryland, United States
thar wrote:
I have been watching some industrial chemical accident videos (the moral seems to be never to do maintenance - the accidents almost always happen during maintenance or when plant is being started up again after maintenance) and got referred on to accident reports from the accident investigation organisation in British Columbia, and I see they use 'to fall trees' as a transitive verb, and the lumberjacks are 'fallers'.
Obviously I can understand what they mean, and it is the correct term used here - I am just interested in whether that is the common term, a technical term, and if it is also used in AmE or other variations.
To me, you fell the tree, (and the tree falls). And the person who does it is the tree feller.
To fall a tree is new to me, and I am slightly surprised I have never heard it if it is that common in Canadian English.


Think This half-Canadian American (U.S. born) has never seen nor heard ‘fall’ used in that way, that is to take trees down or to cut trees, or to intentionally cause a tree to fall. To fell or felling has always been the version heard in my seven decades of American English usage (with frequent and early exposure to Western Canadian usages). Cutting is probably used rather more frequently than felling, and lumberjack more common than tree-feller. That said, in the spirit of Norma Loquendi (“Consuetudo, jus et norma loquendi…” : The right method of speaking and pronouncing is established by custom... ), using ‘to fall,’ 'falling,' or 'faller(s)' in context, as a transitive verb or as a noun, does, as you noted, effectively convey the intended meaning.
Assuming that ‘falling’ a tree is not the newly identified process of ‘autumnalization’ or ‘autumnalizing,’ i.e. preparing the tree(s) to face the rigors of Autumn, the form will, henceforth, have a place in the anteroom of my passive vocabulary.
tautophile
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2020 1:57:05 PM
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You're right, Thar. I've necer heard the usage "to fall a tree". ("Fall out of a tree"--I've heard and done that.) "Fell", the causative of "fall", has been used in English to refer to the cutting down of trees or enemy warriors for the better part of 1500 years. Perhaps the guy in the video was simply mispronouncing "to fell", or had some particularly strong dialect accent. If he was a lumberjack, he was probably OK, though.
thar
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2020 2:07:18 PM

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No, it is definitely falling a tree.

The narrator had a very soothing voice as he described he workers were killed by bits of falling tree in industrial accidents..


Quote:
BC Faller Training Standard
Part 1
Useful for a new or experienced faller, this document provides information on clothing and personal protective equipment, protection from musculoskeletal injury, chainsaw maintenance, filing and handling information, crew transport, dangerous tree indicators, and procedures for dealing with various falling scenarios, alternative falling methods, limbing, adverse weather, bucking hazards and windthrow.


Quote:
The BC Forest Safety Council is approved by WorkSafeBC as an administrator of the BC Faller Training Standard, and as such, is approved to provide training and certification to individuals wishing to become Certified Fallers. New Faller Training is available to all potential applicants who are a minimum of 18 years of age, physically and mentally fit and possess the desire to work safely and productively as a hand faller.

Course Content:
New Faller Training is a challenging and comprehensive 30 day program which involves classroom training, interactive exercises, reviews and evaluations and closely supervised field training involving all aspects of chainsaw operation, falling and bucking.



Quote:
Sustainable Forest Management (SFM) Toolbox
Tool Details
BC Faller training standard - Preparing to fall (6/170
Year of publication 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw1HaW1t79U
This video series is the companion to the BC Faller Training Standard, which was designed to teach new fallers safe work procedures for falling and bucking.



Quote:
Job Location(s)
Golden, British Columbia
Job Description
Golden Fire Jumpers Ltd. is hiring general forestry labour for a Wildfire Risk Reduction Treatment in the Golden area. Services on this project include, but are not limited to tree pruning, bucking, danger tree assessing, hand falling and piling.

We are seeking applicants with or without similar work experiences to operate under the directives of our field supervisors.


This says you need a falling certificate to do felling - but the others specifically mention hand falling so I am wondering if that one is a typo, even!

Quote:
Job Location(s)
Sicamous, British Columbia
Job Description
This job requires a valid falling certificate. The job requires logging 2 to 4 loads per WEEK of large cedar, with Hemlock and big Spruce also.

Banding large trees, hand felling them carefully and skidding with Caterpiller D5 Low Ground Pressure skid cat with 6-way blade, winch with arch/fairlead. Bucking to 5 meters to load out on short log self-loader truck.

2 people will be needed to work as pairs/partners. Safety first along with minimizing damage is a must.

Excellent pay for excellent work.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2020 2:08:45 PM

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I've never heard of "falling" a tree either. It sounds odd, but understandable.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 8, 2020 9:28:13 PM

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Thar, I never heard of it before, but when I looked on the internet, lo and behold those loggers in BC do use both with the same meaning, even in the same paragraph.

But then they are from western Canada. Whistle Whistle Whistle

https://horteducation.ca/bc-falling-and-bucking-regulation-information-and-credentials/
thar
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2020 6:24:35 AM

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Thanks Hope, that seems pretty definitive as a niche word.

I wonder where it came from? Scottish? Seems unlikely. Simplified English for a single immigrant group such as Chinese workers? Or just migration of a word into a specific niche among the workers.

To me:
cutting/chopping it down
cutting/chopping it up

to BC loggers:
falling
bucking


to me:
the tree falls and the saw bucks!

This only seems to refer to hand falling (and really using a chainsaw is the same technique as using an axe, only quicker) so I assume that more mechanised techniques (the grab and slice machines) are not operated by fallers? Picker-uppers?

Hope123
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2020 12:45:30 PM

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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
thar wrote:
Thanks Hope, that seems pretty definitive as a niche word.

I wonder where it came from? Scottish? Seems unlikely. Simplified English for a single immigrant group such as Chinese workers? Or just migration of a word into a specific niche among the workers.

To me:
cutting/chopping it down
cutting/chopping it up

to BC loggers:
falling
bucking


to me:
the tree falls and the saw bucks!

This only seems to refer to hand falling (and really using a chainsaw is the same technique as using an axe, only quicker) so I assume that more mechanised techniques (the grab and slice machines) are not operated by fallers? Picker-uppers?



We did live in a city, Burnaby, BC in the seventies but I know nothing much about the rest of the province and nothing about logging except they are always fighting with somebody, usually the Indigenous. And wildfires.

This is a picker-upper to me - I have 5 of them situated abut the house. Whistle




thar
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2020 12:51:43 PM

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Yep, looks the same to me. Ever thought of upgrading?

As long as you don't mind your stuff slightly sliced.




Of course vikings don't need machines. Or axes. Icelandic foresters can rip those trees up with their bare hands Whistle

Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 9:21:10 AM

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I had my DNA done - I do have Scandinavian blood in me. 😀
coag
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 1:36:48 PM

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thar wrote:
the tree falls and the saw bucks!

This "the saw bucks" made me think. Why it's called "bucking" in the wood industry.

Here's the Wikipedia description:
"Bucking is the process of cutting a felled and delimbed tree into logs.[1]"
"A felled and delimbed tree is cut into logs of standard sizes, a process is called bucking. A logger who specialises in this job is a buck sawyer."

Bucker making a cut

No "sawbuck" is involved here, so this connection is not clear.
A connection could be the jerky movement (bucking) of hand saws, but you have that in felling trees and in all phases of wood processing, you could call any of those phases "bucking".

Another problem for me is "bucksaw". Any manual saw "bucks", that is, moves in a jerky fashion, you could call any kind of manual saws "bucksaw".

(Wikipedia)


Bucksaw


Crosscut saw
thar
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 2:30:17 PM

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It seems to be a buck





Saw
Hope123
Posted: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 5:05:59 PM

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This used to be 'a buck' before we got 'loonies' ($1 with loon engraved) and 'toonies' (two $)












Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 9:30:07 PM

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From what I gather (from a quick look around the web) - a logs are put on a sawbuck and cut with a bucksaw.

A sawhorse doesn't have horns - a sawbuck does.




That sort of explains the "bucking" - but "falling" . . . nah, no idea.
Orson Burleigh
Posted: Saturday, December 5, 2020 7:17:33 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
This used to be 'a buck' before we got 'loonies' ($1 with loon engraved) and 'toonies' (two $)














Think Always thought that Canadians missed a trick with the two dollar coin. 'Loonies' is a properly evocative moniker, but 'toonies,' while it sounds benignly cartoonish, could have been 'Double Loons' - AARGH!
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