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Koh Elaine
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:18:02 AM
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Joined: 7/4/2012
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Singapore belongs to Singaporeans and not to the PAP. No doubt many Singaporeans, myself included are grateful that the first generation leaders got us onto the right track for good economic development. That does not mean that we approve of undemocratic methods to entrench themselves in power. If the people chooses to let PAP continue to be the vastly dominant ruling party, that will be their choice but it should not be because of threats over their own well-being.

Is "myself included" correct? Also, should there be a comma after "included"?

Thanks.

Wilmar (USA) 1M
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2020 9:38:02 AM

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Please leave it out. If you would like to make a particular comment regarding your own opinion, that should be separate. This entire statement will be viewed as the opinion of the speaker, so no need to include "myself included".

The phrase "myself included" is commonly heard; is very informal; and should never be included in text unless it is a part of direct speech.

As for the grammar of it, I don't think it matters, considering what it is.

If you do include it, it needs to be separated from the sentence with commas.
TMe
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2020 10:57:38 AM

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Joined: 1/12/2017
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Yes, there should be a comma after included. "myself included" is a separate assertion.
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2020 11:28:49 AM

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Koh Elaine wrote:
Singapore belongs to Singaporeans and not to the PAP. No doubt many Singaporeans, myself included are grateful that the first generation leaders got us onto the right track for good economic development. That does not mean that we approve of undemocratic methods to entrench themselves in power. If the people chooses to let PAP continue to be the vastly dominant ruling party, that will be their choice but it should not be because of threats over their own well-being.

Is "myself included" correct? Also, should there be a comma after "included"?

Thanks.



If the writer is identified, I see no problem with it since it refers to himself, or herself. And yes, a comma after "included" would be right.
tautophile
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:05:46 PM
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Joined: 3/14/2018
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Yes, the parenthetic phrase "myself included" should have commas before and after, as in "...Singaporeans, myself included, are...". The phrase itself is a rather informal idiom. There's nothing wrong with ", myself included,", but it could be replaced with ", including myself," or even ", including me," (the former is preferable).
Romany
Posted: Saturday, April 4, 2020 12:50:02 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Oh Goodness me! By the time I posted this, there had been another post which takes a different view to mine. So it looks as though I have aimed my reply to him. I'm most terribly sorry - I wrote this a while ago & forgot to "send" so I'm not arguing with you! I wasn't aiming this at non-native speakers where cultures and conventions in language usage differ.




Everyone is free to have their own opinion, so some people might dislike writers who personalise their work. That's an opinion.

However, neither is there any reason (grammar etc)that a writer can't include themselves in something they've written. As long as you have your own by-line it simply depends on whether you want to engage more fully with your readership or not.

However, grammatically and conventionally, "myself included" is considered uneducated English - usually said by the same kinds of people who say "Myself and Jenni went to the beach."

It's considered rather self-important to refer to oneself as "myself" (In BE that bucks the national trend:two little letters (me) are more than enough!Whistle )

Apart from the Grammar of it, is the convention, in English, always to put oneself last in any list. People who always put themselves first in writing and speech are considered to be selfish and/or conceited by listeners/readers!

Those are my objections to that phrase. "Including me" is how it's used by the majority of English-speakers. (And, well, we consider the people who see nothing wrong with it to be a little self-absorbed...so those who don't see any problem with it would rather give themselves away)Dancing Dancing Think

Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2020 12:21:53 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
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Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom
I haven't really thought WHY, but when I first looked I thought "Why not just say "including me"?

Personally, as it is very much just a comment, I'd put it in parentheses rather than two commas - but I agree with the other replies on the commas - there needs to be one after "including myself" if that's the phrase you want to use.

However - in all - "myself included" sounds totally correct. It's just not the phrase I would use.
Koh Elaine
Posted: Sunday, April 5, 2020 5:19:53 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/4/2012
Posts: 6,698
Neurons: 27,970
Thanks to all of you!
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