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Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document? Options
DavidLearn
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 7:13:28 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,845
Neurons: 25,608
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
Hi teachers,
Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document?

Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh6lmfrxn3xdcqy/Present%20Perfect%20blue%20lines.docx?dl=0

FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:13:35 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,062
Neurons: 66,973
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document?

Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh6lmfrxn3xdcqy/Present%20Perfect%20blue%20lines.docx?dl=0


I think they convey the idea very well. Both show the travel took place sometime before now, with no specific date given.
DavidLearn
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:20:24 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,845
Neurons: 25,608
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document?

Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh6lmfrxn3xdcqy/Present%20Perfect%20blue%20lines.docx?dl=0

FounDit wrote:
I think they convey the idea very well. Both show the travel took place sometime before now, with no specific date given.

Hi FounDit,
That's the idea to show that the travel took place before now. But, do you really think that the blue line has to be there connecting past and present?
As I said, I don’t think there’s a strong link to the present in those examples. Then shouldn't just the black line be there to show that the action took place some time before now?

David.
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 12:39:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,062
Neurons: 66,973
DavidLearn wrote:
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document?

Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh6lmfrxn3xdcqy/Present%20Perfect%20blue%20lines.docx?dl=0

FounDit wrote:
I think they convey the idea very well. Both show the travel took place sometime before now, with no specific date given.

Hi FounDit,
That's the idea to show that the travel took place before now. But, do you really think that the blue line has to be there connecting past and present?
As I said, I don’t think there’s a strong link to the present in those examples. Then shouldn't just the black line be there to show that the action took place some time before now?

David.

The only connection to the present is the fact that time has passed in a linear fashion. I see no problem with using the lines since they show the flow of time. The important point is that the travel took place prior to today.
DavidLearn
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 1:23:49 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,845
Neurons: 25,608
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document?

Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh6lmfrxn3xdcqy/Present%20Perfect%20blue%20lines.docx?dl=0

FounDit wrote:
I think they convey the idea very well. Both show the travel took place sometime before now, with no specific date given.

DavidLearn wrote:
Hi FounDit,
That's the idea to show that the travel took place before now. But, do you really think that the blue line has to be there connecting past and present?
As I said, I don’t think there’s a strong link to the present in those examples. Then shouldn't just the black line be there to show that the action took place some time before now?


FounDit wrote:
The only connection to the present is the fact that time has passed in a linear fashion. I see no problem with using the lines since they show the flow of time. The important point is that the travel took place prior to today.


That's right. As you've said "The only connection to the present is the fact that time has passed in a linear fashion". I think the clue is "time has passed" and not "time passed". Somehow using the present perfect, tells me that in the speaker's/write's mind there's connection for whatever reason.
But if the sentences were:
1. He went to New York.
2. He traveled to New York.
Then the time line of the diagram, should have an "X" instead of a round circle without the blue line to inform about the time. Right?

Though the fact that time has passed is also true if I use the simple past. That's where I get stuck with the blue line. Is there a present result of my original sentences?

David.
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 3:56:40 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,062
Neurons: 66,973
DavidLearn wrote:
DavidLearn wrote:
Hi teachers,
Could you help in the two questions I have attached to the document?

Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kh6lmfrxn3xdcqy/Present%20Perfect%20blue%20lines.docx?dl=0

FounDit wrote:
I think they convey the idea very well. Both show the travel took place sometime before now, with no specific date given.

DavidLearn wrote:
Hi FounDit,
That's the idea to show that the travel took place before now. But, do you really think that the blue line has to be there connecting past and present?
As I said, I don’t think there’s a strong link to the present in those examples. Then shouldn't just the black line be there to show that the action took place some time before now?


FounDit wrote:
The only connection to the present is the fact that time has passed in a linear fashion. I see no problem with using the lines since they show the flow of time. The important point is that the travel took place prior to today.


That's right. As you've said "The only connection to the present is the fact that time has passed in a linear fashion". I think the clue is "time has passed" and not "time passed". Somehow using the present perfect, tells me that in the speaker's/write's mind there's connection for whatever reason.
But if the sentences were:
1. He went to New York.
2. He traveled to New York.
Then the time line of the diagram, should have an "X" instead of a round circle without the blue line to inform about the time. Right?

Though the fact that time has passed is also true if I use the simple past. That's where I get stuck with the blue line. Is there a present result of my original sentences?

David.


Okay, I think I see what you are after now.

Saying "Bruce has gone to London" and showing the blue line, indicates he may still be in London, or he may have returned and we don't know that. The assumption would be he is still there unless we are told differently. It's the same with "He went to New York". Using "traveled", however, would make me wonder if he is still there. I wouldn't necessarily think he is still there.

Saying "Bruce has traveled to London twice" would have a black line after the first visit because he returned, but a blue line after the second trip leading to the present because we don't know if he is still there. He may be, but he may have returned and we don't know that. In this case, I would tend to think using "traveled twice" means he has returned, but it would only be a suspicion.

You could use an "X" for the first trip, but the circle with the ? would work for the final trip, because it is unknown if he has returned.
DavidLearn
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 4:39:20 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 3,845
Neurons: 25,608
Location: Girona, Catalonia, Spain
FounDit wrote:
Okay, I think I see what you are after now.

Saying "Bruce has gone to London" and showing the blue line, indicates he may still be in London, or he may have returned and we don't know that. The assumption would be he is still there unless we are told differently. It's the same with "He went to New York". Using "traveled", however, would make me wonder if he is still there. I wouldn't necessarily think he is still there.

That's right! Now it does have meaning the blue line. Applause

FounDit wrote:
Saying "Bruce has traveled to London twice" would have a black line after the first visit because he returned, but a blue line after the second trip leading to the present because we don't know if he is still there. He may be, but he may have returned and we don't know that. In this case, I would tend to think using "traveled twice" means he has returned, but it would only be a suspicion.

Correct. Now I get it. Thanks! Applause

FounDit wrote:
You could use an "X" for the first trip, but the circle with the ? would work for the final trip, because it is unknown if he has returned.

Yes! Crystal clear. I appreciate your help.

I'll attach a couple of diagrams tomorrow. I believe the ones I'll attach are correct, but just in case. Anxious

David.


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