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Alba Options
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2020 8:52:00 AM

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If Scotland is called Alba (in Gaelic), why aren't Scots called Albanian?
d'oh!
thar
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2020 9:07:03 AM

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Maybe they are - but only if they want to be!



Did you just call me an Albanian? Say that again and I'll finnish you off.



Maybe come independence it will become the country name and really confuse everyone!

Apparently it means either Scotland or Britain. In Irish. So....Whistle

Quote:
From Proto-Indo-European *h₂elbʰós (“white”). For the semantic development, compare Old Church Slavonic свѣтъ (světŭ, “light; world”).

Noun
*albiyū f

luminous world, upper world, (the habitable surface of the) world
high mountain (especially in the Alps), alp
alpine pasture
Britain


That explains it - I never understood how it could mean both Scotland and Britain.

But following the trail from the other direction...

Albania
>From Byzantine Greek Ἀλβανία (Albanía).
Ancient Greek
>From Ἀλβᾰνός (Albanós) +‎ -ῐ́ᾱ (-íā).

Ἀλβᾱνός
>Borrowed from Latin Albānus
an inhabitant of Alba

Alba
> Latin, form of Albis

Albis
>the River Elbe of Germany

Now my Balkan knowledge is not great but I am pretty sure that is not where the River Elbe goes!
Oops!
Romany
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2020 12:07:28 PM
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JJ - Our first primary document where Scotland & England are referred to Albion is a Greek map from around the fourth century BCE.

With all the new evidence over the last decade upsetting our original premise that everything started in England and sorta "seeped up" to Scotland over time; I'm also open to taking it further one step and accepting the name was first given to Scotland and as more exploration/trade went on further down the coast, called the whole of the island "Albion" not knowing that it was inhabited by many different tribes and that a new identity was being forged where Scotland was seperate to the rest of the island. (They had given Ireland it's own name, finding no reason in the world to connect it with the inhabitants of the larger island they came across further on.)

Throughout classical literature - ballads, epics, theatre, hymns,prayers, pamphlets etc. "Albion" is the go-to word for England. If nudged, people might add "Oh and Scotland too." but, in context, it becomes apparent that it's England that's being referred to by most. While that "perfidious Albion" quote most definitely is aimed squarely at the Brits.

ps. The word for Ireland was bugging me so I went and looked it up...and of course, now I remember....it was Ierne.
thar
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2020 1:17:33 PM

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Yes, but you see plenty of Alba Scottish car stickers in England, so anyone paying attention should have made the connection.
Never could square that with Perfidious Albion. Or even West Bromwich! Whistle



But of course that is as much an imported name as Caledonia. The Scots only started arriving in 'Scotland' after the Angles, Saxons etc started colonising Britain, in terms of timeline. What did the Picts and others call the place before the Scots moved in in the SE, and the Saxon Northumbrians in the SW? (And the Norse in the North)Whistle


Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Saturday, February 22, 2020 1:51:37 PM

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Pictorish or Pictorian?
Whistle
Romany
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 7:00:36 AM
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Thar -

The idea that we spread UP and not DOWN has been challenged pretty rigourously over the past two decades. With the advance of technology having opened up undreamed of ways of dating, analysing, etc. etc. this idea becomes more and more plausible, as theory is now able to be backed up by proofs.

British history used to begin with the end of the Ice Age - and a "land bridge" making settlement possible in our islands. However landscape archeology and geological markers gave way to the theory that, in fact, occupation of (at least) the main island had occurred BEFORE the Ice Age - thus turning our traditional view on its head.

This discovery has led to much more re-thinking: the idea of farming spreading outward from Mesopotamia also gets a big question mark in front of it now too. The existence of droving networks in Scotland which pre-date the supposed dates of transition from hunter/gatherer to farming/agriculture has also caused a huge shift in thinking.

It's a very exciting time to be alive as our traditional time-lines undergo huge shifts in our entire world view.

towan52
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 12:22:46 PM
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We could rebuild Hadrian's Wall (Mexico would pay) - then one side or the other could be called wall-flowers or "floresmurumians".
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 3:22:43 PM

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towan52 wrote:
We could rebuild Hadrian's Wall (Mexico would pay) - then one side or the other could be called wall-flowers or "floresmurumians".


Only if you want to upset many Englishmen particularly those in Cumbria and Northumbria.
At its furthest point Hadrians Wall is around 70 miles south of the Scottish Border.
Romany
Posted: Monday, February 24, 2020 7:01:10 PM
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I knew that was a sore point, Sarries, but I hadn't realised 70 whole miles had been 'arf-inched!
Epiphileon
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 5:56:18 AM

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Alba is a smooth collie!


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Romany
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:05:58 AM
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Yep - one look and you can tell he's a smooth operator!
Epiphileon
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 6:20:03 AM

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Romany wrote:
Yep - one look and you can tell he's a smooth operator!

LOL not quite Rom, also Alba


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thar
Posted: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 8:35:20 AM

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That just seems to make him even cooler. Whistle
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Friday, February 28, 2020 7:51:11 AM

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Romany wrote:
I knew that was a sore point, Sarries, but I hadn't realised 70 whole miles had been 'arf-inched!



But the borders were rather 'fluid'.
Edinburgh was in the Heptarchy - the seven kingdoms which made up England.
However, at the same time, Strathclyde (a Scottish kingdom) stably governed down to the River Ribble and occasionally took as far south as the Mersey and Manchester.



For a few years after 1066, Norman rule didn't even reach Durham and Derby (almost to Worcester) - it's not easy to say who were Scots and who were Cumbrians and Northumbrians, but "the Northern Rebels" held off for a while.



But the border's been pretty stable (except for Berwick-upon-Tweed) for a good 800 years now.
thar
Posted: Saturday, February 29, 2020 10:00:38 AM

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Well of course if you want to arf inch some of Scotland there's the Antonine Wall, but



1 the Borders? Nah.
Libya? Nice and warm. Lots of hot dancing girls, figs, wine.
Scotland? Sheep, midges and wet feet. And Picts.

And

2 A shorter land distance but not as impressive without the natural geological feature that Hadrian's Wall takes advantage of.
And you can just sail round it!



I wonder if the fence and gate is original. Whistle
Drag0nspeaker
Posted: Saturday, February 29, 2020 11:08:53 AM

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The Romans built the fence to stop the picts from stealing the stones from the wall . . .

This is a statue of the famous Rob Anybody.



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