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Atatürk
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:34:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
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Location: İstoç, Istanbul, Turkey
The exam was so difficult as to get a good mark.

Is the above grammatical?
FounDit
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:47:44 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,279
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Atatürk wrote:
The exam was so difficult as to get a good mark.

Is the above grammatical?


No. It makes no sense as written because it puts two conflicting ideas together.
Atatürk
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:39:02 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
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Location: İstoç, Istanbul, Turkey
The exam was so difficult as to get a bad mark.

What now?
tautophile
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 12:39:59 PM
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Joined: 3/14/2018
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Your sentence is grammatical, but doesn't make much sense. I think what you mean is "The exam was so difficult that it was difficult [for those taking it] to get a good mark on it." Or, from the point of view of the examiner, "The exam was difficult, so as to make it hard to get a good mark on it" or perhaps "I made the exam difficult, so as to make it hard for students to get a good mark on it."
hedy mmm
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 1:18:20 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 1,447
Neurons: 699,898
Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
Atatürk wrote:
The exam was so difficult as to get a good mark.

Is the above grammatical?

———-
Hi Atatürk, ”long time no see”,Dancing

tautophile offered some very good suggestions Applause ...and adding my 2¢:
“The exam was so difficult that it was hard to get a good mark” or other synonyms of difficult and hard...or reversing them!
“The exam was so hard that it was difficult to get a good mark [or grade]”

Also, in your question:
“Is the above grammatical?”
You wouldn’t just say grammatical, because that’s exactly what it is...relating to grammar!
Correct would be “Is the above [sentence] grammatically correct?”

BTW FounDit...I love your answer...succinct...never bordering on a novel! Applause

hedy mmm
Whistle

taurine
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 1:37:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/2016
Posts: 2,578
Neurons: 158,979
Location: South Dublin, Ireland
hedy mmm wrote:
Atatürk wrote:
The exam was so difficult as to get a good mark.

Is the above grammatical?

———-
Hi Atatürk, ”long time no see”,Dancing

tautophile offered some very good suggestions Applause ...and adding my 2¢:
“The exam was so difficult that it was hard to get a good mark” or other synonyms of difficult and hard...or reversing them!
“The exam was so hard that it was difficult to get a good mark [or grade]”

Also, in your question:
“Is the above grammatical?”
You wouldn’t just say grammatical, because that’s exactly what it is...relating to grammar!
Correct would be “Is the above [sentence] grammatically correct?”

BTW FounDit...I love your answer...succinct...never bordering on a novel! Applause

hedy mmm
Whistle




Yeah... FounDit was like fresh oregano, while you, hedy mmm prepared the whole salad with Greek cheese.
Orson Burleigh
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 3:05:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 255
Neurons: 140,041
Location: Annapolis, Maryland, United States
Atatürk wrote:
The exam was so difficult as to get a good mark.

Is the above grammatical?


The sentence as it stands, is grammatical. The import is that the good mark was given for the successful development of an intentionally difficult exam. If the sentence was changed to 'The exam was so difficult as to get a bad mark,' the 'bad mark' would be based on a failure to meet the implied goal of creating an exam which was not excessively difficult.
thar
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 3:33:10 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,658
Neurons: 91,971
The problem is that in your sentence the exam gets a good mark.

Which makes no sense. An exam doesn't take an exam.


There is no dummy pronoun 'it was hard ( for students) to get a good mark'

So the exam is still the subject that gets the good (or bad ) mark.


That is why they don't work unless you add the new or dummy subject.

Eg
The exam was so hard as to be impossible to pass.

Ie the exam was impossible to pass.


Also, the title suggests you are conflating
So + adjective as to
And
So as to
These are completely different constructions. The title does not reflect the construction you are asking about, so just be aware there is 'so as to' as well.





hedy mmm
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 4:31:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 1,447
Neurons: 699,898
Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
taurine wrote:
Yeah... FounDit was like fresh oregano, while you, hedy mmm prepared the whole salad with Greek cheese.

.........
Yep, Yep, Yep...We sure done did it!!! ... FounDit’s ingredient would compliment my salad with that delish Feta Cheese...yum!
His wife might even give him that task!! Hahaha

I’ll start a new series like about favorite food recipes...
Posters would love to add their favorites ...imagine they could be from all over the world! Of course we have to start with you after I thread. Then FounDit, Atatürk, possibly tautophile, even Orson Burleigh, (if he’s not offended when I state,“You are wrong...”)
I already expect many to contribute.. maybe some of the betíse will stay away from it or possibly add... NOT!

It would be titled “What’s You’re Fav🥑Food?” series, #’rd...
The avocado logo because I said so...

I’ll explain on the first thread...Food, origin, ingredients? how much? weight? prep & cooking time? and how many people it would feed... and I’ll place it where I please!

So, can I count you in taurine?

hedy...






Romany
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 6:52:33 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,560
Neurons: 56,753
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

As usual, Thar identified the problem: you're CONFLATING two different phrases.

Keep in mind that idioms and known phrases ("so as to") are only idioms because the words come in a particular order. You can't insert another word into an idiom/known phrase. "so (difficult) as to.." doesn't work because "so as to" is synonymous with "in order that/to". (So the meaning would be like saying "In order (difficult) that").

Does that make sense?

The insertion of another word into a known phrase/idiom means it's no longer an accepted phrase/idiom. So its meaning becomes confused.
Atatürk
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:53:15 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,799
Neurons: 8,073
Location: İstoç, Istanbul, Turkey
Thank you so much all.

Yes, I conflated the two structures. Actually I was trying to learn the "so adjective as to" structure.

The exam was so difficult as to be impossible to pass.

Should always be "be+adjective" (like "be impossible") after that structure? Could you provide me with some more examples please?

Atatürk
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:57:16 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,799
Neurons: 8,073
Location: İstoç, Istanbul, Turkey
Hi heddy, thanks for the answer and your warm participation.

Yes it's been a long time since I last had the chance to have you in my threads. How's life?

By the way, what does "never bordering on a novel" mean?
hedy mmm
Posted: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 10:31:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 1,447
Neurons: 699,898
Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
Atatürk wrote:
Hi heddy, thanks for the answer and your warm participation.
Yes it's been a long time since I last had the chance to have you in my threads. How's life?

By the way, what does "never bordering on a novel" mean?

————-
Hey Atatürk...
Life is GREAT! Dancing I trust you & family are great too!

I miss your threads too d'oh! ..but sometimes I’ve got work deadlines, Brick wall so TFD Forum takes a back seat!

hedy mmm Whistle
FounDit
Posted: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 11:34:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,279
Neurons: 67,943
Atatürk wrote:
Hi heddy, thanks for the answer and your warm participation.

Yes it's been a long time since I last had the chance to have you in my threads. How's life?

By the way, what does "never bordering on a novel" mean?


She means my answers are usually short, and to the point. I try to get right to the heart of whatever I'm focused on, and only write extra if I think more explanation is necessary. It's just the way my mind works.

Whether that is a good thing or not, only those of you who read my answers can say. If you all think I need to make my explanations more detailed, you'll have to tell me.
hedy mmm
Posted: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:56:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/2014
Posts: 1,447
Neurons: 699,898
Location: Borough of Bronx, New York, United States
Atatürk wrote:
Hi heddy, thanks for the answer and your warm participation.
Yes it's been a long time since I last had the chance to have you in my threads. How's life?
By the way, what does "never bordering on a novel" mean?

FounDit wrote:
She means my answers are usually short, and to the point. I try to get right to the heart of whatever I'm focused on, and only write extra if I think more explanation is necessary. It's just the way my mind works.
Whether that is a good thing or not, only those of you who read my answers can say. If you all think I need to make my explanations more detailed, you'll have to tell me.


hedy mmm wrote:
Yes, FounDit, your answers are “concise, short and to the point...you get right into the heart” of what needs to be said, I love to read your posts, you have a great command of the English language...but, as far as asking if whether what you’ve written is good or bad, take the advise of Lao Tzu... “Care about what other people think and you’ll always be their prisoner”

My approach is...when I thread a topic, no one is obligated to read it... If they criticize my thread or post, unjustly, the way I feel is...”Silence is the best reply to a fool”

So, Atatürk, I know now you understand...and thank you for your kind words

My favorite quote is ”Don’t mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what they are going to remember about me” Al Capone



hedy mmm




Islami
Posted: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:44:42 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/21/2017
Posts: 195
Neurons: 1,152
hedy how come food and recipes come under this thread? I think you are off the track.
Atatürk
Posted: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 10:25:31 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/25/2018
Posts: 1,799
Neurons: 8,073
Location: İstoç, Istanbul, Turkey
Islami wrote:
hedy how come food and recipes come under this thread? I think you are off the track.


Hedy is a native speaker with a brilliant sense of humour. She makes learning fun and colourful. She also uses beautiful idiomatic language which I really enjoy and learn from as a non-native speaker. After all, we're human being, not some soulless robot. So she is doing perfectly fine and I'd like her to keep up the good job.

Much appreciated hedy.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 1:33:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,560
Neurons: 56,753
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

I'm sure there are many learners who feel the same as you, Ataturk - and Islami may be one of them.

He's not insulting or denigrating hedy in any way - he's just asking a perfectly polite question.

As you will have seen when you joined, there are Rules which govern the forum. We no longer have people who check all the threads on a regular basis - people have to make formal complaints about things in one of the TFD public threads.

But the rules are all pretty basic to a Language forum so people stick to them because most of them refer to Internet behaviour generally: (writing in bold, using different fonts, extensive use of punctuation marks i.e. "Flaming"; posting non-related content on several threads i.e. "flooding" etc. though used in chat-rooms, is not permitted on most forums). The Rules about where to post, and suitable content are also fairly obvious rules for an Language forum.

Hedy said in another thread that she would continue to disregard the rules which apply to the rest of the group on TFD, by posting content wherever she wanted to. As part of that group, Islami was curious as to why she chose to do this - he made no comment at all that was rude or impolite - relax.

"Don't sweat the small stuff."Dancing
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