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Hapless Sick persons. Options
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Monday, January 20, 2020 10:41:30 AM

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Care-takers/relatives of seriously sick persons rush them to best Physicians and Surgeons and not to big Churches, Temples or religious places where the Great Physician resides. Why? Any explanation.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Monday, January 20, 2020 3:30:30 PM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
Care-takers/relatives of seriously sick persons rush them to best Physicians and Surgeons and not to big Churches, Temples or religious places where the Great Physician resides. Why? Any explanation.


Well for those that believe surely a benevolent higher power would help a sick person where ever they are?
And for those that don’t, a hospital makes far more sense.
Epiphileon
Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 3:08:54 AM

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If there were any significant history of that strategy actually working I'm sure it would be employed more often.
whatson
Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:24:36 AM
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*
In other words, medical treatment is obviously more reliable
than hocus-pocus accompanied by utter(ed) nonsense called prayers.

Romany
Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:44:27 AM
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The first studies on this subject were conducted in 1872 in the UK. Since then each country has conducted their own research. The results remain consistent.

Prayer and healing: A medical and scientific perspective on randomized controlled trials: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/

Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer ...https://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/longawaited-medical-study-questions-the-power-of-prayer.html

Scientific Studies of Prayer: http://www.humanreligions.info/does_prayer_work.html

I am not expressing any opinion on any of the above. I am merely providing a direct answer to the O.P : as part of the answer to his question as to why people take the sick and injured to hospital rather than to a place of worship.
taurine
Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 12:04:18 PM

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The sentence seems to me to be containing bias preventing the answer potentially given to be correct. I am referring to the "Great Physician" residing in the temple.
Let's assume if the physician were truly a great one then, doubtless the patients would be swarming at the entrance to the place where s/he resides. It is also possible to name somebody who lives in a temple as a "Great Physician" without any, whatsoever reference to the practical healing skills. In this example the ceremonial protocol might be the only sensible justification. Just like somebody who has been given a position in a public owned company and is called, for the sake of getting promotion at work, "the Great Boss" while s/he actually might be of large posture, but mediocre intellectual abilities.



hedy mmm
Posted: Tuesday, January 21, 2020 9:36:55 PM

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Ashwin Joshi writes:
Care-takers/relatives of seriously sick persons rush them to best Physicians and Surgeons and not to big Churches, Temples or religious places where the Great Physician resides. Why? Any explanation.

———

Very good question Ashwin Joshi!

We should not think it strange that it is impossible to explain many mysteries in the realm of matter. The intricate physical, chemical, and biological interactions that comprise our world bear the imprint of a sophisticated Designer.

God is referred to as the Great Physician, especially by physicians and surgeons, who have witnessed seemly impossible miracles, after doing all they can.

God cannot be proved by mere rationalization. He doesn’t “reside in temples, churches or religious places.” He cannot be contained in a tiny man-made test tube or confined to an algebraic formula. There are mysteries about God that we will never understand in this life. How can the small and finite, limited to time and space, understand an infinite God.

Who can explain why objects are always attracted to the center of the earth? Who can fathom the law of gravity? Newton discovered it, but he could not explain it. Who can explain the miracle of reproduction?

Scientists know our planet is precisely the right distance from the sun to benefit from its heat. A little closer and all the water would evaporate, as on Venus. Only a bit farther and everything would freeze like it does on Mars. Earth is also just the right size to generate the right amount of gravity. Less would make everything weightlessly sterile like our moon, while more gravity would trap poisonous gases that suffocate life as on Jupiter.

"All men are by nature equal, made all of the same earth by one Workman; and however we deceive ourselves, as dear unto God is the poor peasant as the mighty prince." ~ Plato (427 BC-347 BC)

BTW Here’s a thought for the few who are incredulous...who woke you up this morning?

If you try to rationalize God exhaustively, you will fail.

hedy mmm
Islami
Posted: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 10:53:22 AM
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Allah is all powerful.
Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2020 11:56:22 AM

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The world is in the grip of a very precarious viral disease. Unfortunately quite a number of infected persons transitioned. Many countries have to come up with new hospitals to cope with the pandemic. Scientists all over pulled up their sleeves to invent a new vaccine to save mankind from the dreaded disease. Almost all infected persons were rushed to hospitals. Ernest efforts of medicos could save a good number.
I wonder, why the infected numbers were not taken to temples, churches, gurudwaras, mosques or synagogues, where the great physician is believed to reside?

I am not an atheist. Need an explanation and a super powerful cohort.

Waiting for your responses, friends. (no pun intended)
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:54:48 PM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
The world is in the grip of a very precarious viral disease. Unfortunately quite a number of infected persons transitioned. Many countries have to come up with new hospitals to cope with the pandemic. Scientists all over pulled up their sleeves to invent a new vaccine to save mankind from the dreaded disease. Almost all infected persons were rushed to hospitals. Ernest efforts of medicos could save a good number.
I wonder, why the infected numbers were not taken to temples, churches, gurudwaras, mosques or synagogues, where the great physician is believed to reside?

I am not an atheist. Need an explanation and a super powerful cohort.

Waiting for your responses, friends. (no pun intended)


Because atheists belief that great physicians and there are many of them work as part of healthcare teams in hospitals and clinics.
We do not believe in Airmed, Brigid, Wong Tia Sin, Sekhmet, Akscepius, Ashvins, Eir, Jesus or Allah or any fictional deity so taking them to a mass gathering in a religious building were infections can easily spread makes as much sense to us as trying to fight a fire by putting more wood onto it.

I am sorry if you are a believer and are offended by this but you did ask for an atheist point of view, for us there are no gods, none, zip, nada we don't have faith in the supernatural you may as well pray to Dracula or Frankenstein and his creation.
thar
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2020 2:49:18 PM

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Maybe because God/the gods gave us the ability to think, the spirit to to organise health services paid for by taxation of the whole community, and the compassion to have people work hard to help others. As the joke says - what more did you expect?


This either/ or argument always floors me. d'oh!



Quote:
A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."

The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."

To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"

To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2020 4:46:09 PM

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thar wrote:
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"


And this is why we go to doctors and take the sick and injured to hospitals. They are provided, staffed, and operated by "God".
BobShilling
Posted: Thursday, March 19, 2020 5:18:28 PM
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If God had just a dash of common sense, he(she/it) would prevent floods rather than providing rowboats, motorboats or helicopters.

In fact, he(/she/it) would ensure that nobody was in in a position where they needed to pray for help.

Just a thought.
thar
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 7:02:20 AM

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Ah, that is assuming that the deity thinks the people are more important than the flood. Which is a rather anthropocentric view.

Of course, if we humans invent our deity, we are allowed to make it all about 'us'.
But if the deity exists already (and creates the humans) it seems very unlikely that they would consider humans more worthy of care than a flood, or a pathogen.

That only seems to be a viable outlook if you concede that the deity is a human construction (and an extremely common, possibly even universal one - despite atheism you do have to admit that religion does seem to arise, and even be fundamental at some points, in any culture, but still just a construction).

It has always seemed to me the only way to put yourself at the top of the totem pole is to be the one who builds the totem pole.

(With apologies for my idiomatic appropriation of NA and FN iconography! )

edit
and now I have been reading about a mass prayer rally in Bangladesh. A man with too much religion and not enough common sense gets (tens of?) thousands of people together to pray for healing (and all infect each other). Then says they are healed. d'oh!
To appropriate another quote - trust in God but tie up your camel. Yes, pray - just use some common sense and don't go to a mass rally to do it! Shame on you Brick wall
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 8:33:27 AM

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Except you really want to be at the bottom of the totem pole, where you can be easily seen, that’s the important place.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 8:43:40 AM

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thar wrote:

To appropriate another quote - trust in God but tie up your camel. Yes, pray - just use some common sense and don't go to a mass rally to do it! Shame on you Brick wall


If it is true that humans are a creation, I think what you are saying is exactly what the Creator(s) would want us to do.

Because without common sense and constructive deeds, including development of healthcare, humans would just turn into rather ugly animals, and would need to be gotten rid of to provide more space for birds, tigers, elephants and other beautiful creatures.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 11:55:06 AM

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And don't forget: "God helps those who help themselves."

From the early Greeks to the Christians to the Quran, this message has been suggested in one form or another.
BobShilling
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:33:26 PM
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be more inclined to believe that if there were any evidence that God did help those who helpe them selves.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, March 20, 2020 12:41:57 PM

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BobShilling wrote:
be more inclined to believe that if there were any evidence that God did help those who helpe them selves.


It rather depends on your definition of "God", doesn't it?...Shhh
Y111
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 1:42:04 AM
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I don't know much about other religions, but Christianity, as far as I understand, is not about the well-being of the body. Its concern is the spirit, the soul. For the healing of those, you can go to a Christian temple. The Christian God is rather a psychotherapist than a physician.
thar
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 8:07:14 AM

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That is a view from Russian Orthodoxy, I presume.
It depends on the flavour of the Christianity.
Catholicism has some claims to healing, although the leadership do have a problem with wholly endorsing it, I think. And more importantly, it does not involve refusing medical care. As well as, not instead of.
But certainly some shrines such as Lourdes do have that association.
Protestantism in the mainstream is more about helping yourself (hence all the hospitals)
but some of the more extreme varieties not only go in for healing, but even preach that followers must refuse medical assistance as it is a sign of lack of faith.


Quote:
Mariah is 20 but she’s frail and permanently disabled. She has pulmonary hypertension and when she’s not bedridden, she has to carry an oxygen tank that allows her to breathe. At times, she has had screws in her bones to anchor her breathing device. She may soon have no option for a cure except a heart and lung transplant – an extremely risky procedure.

All this could have been prevented in her infancy by closing a small congenital hole in her heart. It could even have been successfully treated in later years, before irreversible damage was done. But Mariah’s parents were fundamentalist Mormons who went off the grid in northern Idaho in the 1990s and refused to take their children to doctors, believing that illnesses could be healed through faith and the power of prayer.

As she grew sicker and sicker, Mariah’s parents would pray over her and use alternative medicine. Until she finally left home two years ago, she did not have a social security number or a birth certificate.

Had they been in neighboring Oregon, her parents could have been booked for medical neglect. In Mariah’s case, as in scores of others of instances of preventible death among children in Idaho since the 1970s, laws exempt dogmatic faith healers from prosecution, and she and her sister recently took part in a panel discussion with lawmakers at the state capitol about the issue. Idaho is one of only six states that offer a faith-based shield for felony crimes such as manslaughter.

Some of those enjoying legal protection are fringe Mormon families like Mariah’s, many of whom live in the state’s north. But a large number of children have died in southern Idaho, near Boise, in families belonging to a reclusive, Pentecostal faith-healing sect called the Followers of Christ.

In Canyon County, just west of the capital, the sect’s Peaceful Valley cemetery is full of graves marking the deaths of children who lived a day, a week, a month. Last year, a taskforce set up by Idaho governor Butch Otter estimated that the child mortality rate for the Followers of Christ between 2002 and 2011 was 10 times that of Idaho as a whole.


Quote:
He lost his faith around the age of five, when a baby died in his arms in the course of a failed healing. While elders prayed, Hoyt was in charge of removing its mucus with a suction device. He was told that the child died because of his own lack of faith. Something snapped, and he remembers thinking: “How can this possibly be God’s work?” His apostasy set up lifelong conflicts with his parents and church elders.

In just one incident, when he was 12, Hoyt broke his ankle during a wrestling tryout. “I ended up shattering two bones in my foot,” he said. His parents approached the situation with the usual Followers remedies – rubbing the injury with “rancid olive oil” and having him swig on Kosher wine.

Intermittently, they would have him attempt to walk. Each time, “my body would just go into shock and I would pass out”.

“I would wake up to my step-dad, my uncles and the other elders of the church kicking me and beating me, calling me a fag, because I didn’t have enough faith to let God come in and heal me, while my mom and my aunts were sitting there watching. And that’s called faith healing.”

He had so much time off with the untreated fracture that his school demanded a medical certificate to cover the absence. Forced to take him to a doctor, his mother spent most of the consultation accusing the doctor of being a pedophile.

He was given a cast and medication but immediately upon returning home, the medication was flushed down the toilet, leaving him with no pain relief. His second walking cast was cut off by male relatives at home with a circular saw.


Extracts from https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/13/followers-of-christ-idaho-religious-sect-child-mortality-refusing-medical-help
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 9:07:13 AM

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Although a I am an atheist now I was once a choir boy.
The Church of England does perform prayers of healing.

https://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-and-worship/worship-texts-and-resources/common-worship/wholeness-and-healing/wholeness-and-healing
For instance this one.
Quote:
Lord, grant your healing grace to all who are sick, injured or disabled,
that they may be made whole.
All Hear us, Lord of life.

Y111
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:18:36 AM
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thar wrote:
That is a view from Russian Orthodoxy, I presume.

No, it's my own understanding (I am not a believer). Just a logical conclusion. Maybe too logical. Of course, believers want to be healed here and now rather than dying and waiting for resurrection and a new body. And technincally, since God is omnipotent, he can heal anyone. But then, he could also just make everyone immortal right away, yet he doesn't do it.
thar
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 10:48:37 AM

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I think most religions involve some kind of invoking the deity's power to healing. Like in Sarries' prayer. After all, what is the point of being the creation of a powerful deity if it can't help you when you are ill?

It is the extent to which that applies that varies. After all, Christianity is founded on stories of healing miracles by Jesus. So it is part of the belief. It varies on whether it is through prayer / the saints / the waters/ the healing hands of the preacher / your own level of faith. And how that works with medicine. Many Christian sects do amazing work in alleviating suffering through medicine, among other things. Others, at the 'healng hands' end, with preachers who claim they can heal you, think that using medicine is a sign of lack of faith, and turn away from it.

Opposing ideas from the same belief base. I know which end I prefer if I have to be ill!


Quote:
Throughout the history of the Church, healing has been an integral part of the
proclamation and application of the Gospel. The example set by Jesus in his ministry
was reflected in the mission and ministry of the primitive Church as recorded in the
Acts of the Apostles. Christian concern for physical and social wellbeing, as well as for
spiritual transformation, was evident even in times of persecution under the Roman
Empire. The foundation of hospitals throughout medieval Europe was almost uniformly
centred on Christian institutions. The emergence of modern nation states resulted in
greater governmental involvement in the delivery of healthcare, but Christian agencies,
often in the form of voluntary or charitable bodies, continued to be at the forefront of
highlighting and addressing health issues, especially among the poor and disadvantaged.


2. The establishment of the National Health Service, within a comprehensive vision of
social welfare, owed much to the insight and energy of Archbishop William Temple and
other Christian thinkers and activists.1


Never heard of him, but I will believe it.


Which just proves the two are not mutually exclusive: you can pray for God's healing grace, and make sure people can see a doctor for free and get their medicines free or affordably?

And who is to say the first is not achieved through the second? Whistle




Ashwin Joshi
Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2020 12:56:40 PM

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To contain and cope with Covid-19, a number of new labs, hospitals, isolation centers, the creed of volunteers, philosophers, and philanthropists have emerged. New Religious places? How many?

I am not an atheist.
Lotje1000
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 4:11:15 AM

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Ashwin Joshi wrote:
To contain and cope with Covid-19, a number of new labs, hospitals, isolation centers, the creed of volunteers, philosophers, and philanthropists have emerged. New Religious places? How many?

I am not an atheist.


Honestly, in a time when social distancing is encouraged if not enforced, creating new religious places where people can congregate for worship/prayer seems a little counter-intuitive.
thar
Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2020 4:30:44 AM

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I am sure both the genuine and the fake givers of spiritual guidance, of whatever flavour, have upped their online game in response to this windfall (sorry, I meant troubled times).

Where there are people desperate for help and reassurance there is money to be made from them. And spiritual guidance to be given, of course. I am not saying all of the new online appearances will be charlatans and con artists. Lots of amazing people in the world who just want to help others. No, the criminals are just the ones that promise the most and quote the most religion!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 7:34:30 AM

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I was not raised as a religeous person, and my knowledge of religeous matters is limited. So I do apologise if I (unintentionaly) hurt somebody's feelings / beliefs due to my lack of sensitivity in this area.

Talking about Christianity, I think we should make distinction between the original / early Christianity and what it has evolved into over all these centuries during which it has been the dominant ideological institution in a good part of the world.

I don't think anybody knows exactly what Jesus Christ told people. From what I know about the New Testament, I genuinly believe he must have been moved by the very best intentions. However, the fact is that his name and teachings were subsequently found by other people instrumental in their effort to destroy the Roman state. That destruction in turn gave rise to a prolonged period of decline of all social institutions, including healthcare. I don't think this could have ever been Jesus Christ's intention. Because if he was the son of God(s), he would certainly know it much better than any of us the mortals that public health depended on an effective system of healthcare, not on individual healings. And effective social institutions, healthcare included, can only function and develop in stable states.

So the original impact of Christianity (again, it's not about Jesus Christ but rather about people who later acted in his name) on civilization was... shall I say mixed, at best.

But I think once Christian churches effectively replaced governments and therefore became involved in, so to speak, day-to-day management, they had to gradually align at least their de-facto practices, if not the theory, with the need to address practical earthly problems. Hence I think Thar's quote about Christian bishops encouraging establishment of hospitals, etc. At least now the Russian Orthodox Church seems to be very much on that course. For example, at some public event, about a year ago I believe, the Patriarch of the Russian Church spoke about the need to align religion and science, or at least to the effect that they should not be viewed as opposing or mutually exclusive. And I guess Western Churches in one form or another should be going the same way.

Edit: So I guess the bottom line in the context of this particular thread is that modern Christian churches, at least "mainstream" ones, encourage people to follow advice of public healthcare authorities to protect their health. Including the adice about the need to limit public gatherings in order to prevent or slow tramsmission of the virus.
thar
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 8:36:58 AM

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If you go to an NHS hospital in the UK, the chances are reasonable that it will have a 'saint' in its name - famous ones like St Bart's, and just normal ones all over the country.
Eg
for the region of North Central London, the hospitals are
Barnet Hospital.........1920
Nightingale Hospital....1850
Chase Farm Hospital.....1948
Coppetts Wood Hospital..1887
Gordon Hospital Pimlico.1884
Great Ormond Street Hospital....1852
St Lukes Hospital.......1751
Hospital of St John and St Elizabeth....1856
North Middlesex University Hospital.....1910
The Priory Hospital.....1986 (independent)
Royal Free Hospital.....1828
St Ann's Hospital.......1892
St Pancras Hospital.....1848
University College Hospital....1834
Wellington Hospital.....1974 (independent)
Whittington Hospital....1473...1848 (as present site)

St Pancras is an area, so that is not named directly after a saint.
It is also noticeable that the more recent hospitals are not named after saints!
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:02:36 AM

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I am impressed by the one established in 1473.

I wonder who could get such a project done back then. On their web-site they say originally it was a leprosarium. Somebody was able to align the scientific idea of the need to limit desease transmission with ideological requirements then effective.
thar
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 9:23:37 AM

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Yes, and that one had saints' names for parts of its existence

Quote:
The first hospital on the site was St Anthony's Chapel and Lazar House, a facility built for lepers in 1473.[2]


digression - lazar house = leper colony (never heard of a leprosorium before, but then it is not common language nowadays!)

Quote:
A leper colony, lazarette, leprosorium, or lazar house was historically a place to quarantine people with leprosy (Hansen's disease). The term lazaretto, which is derived from the biblical figure Saint Lazarus, can refer to quarantine sites, which were at some time also "colonies", or places where people affected by leprosy lived or were sent.[1] Many of the first lazarettes were operated by Christian monastic houses.[2]


back to North London
Quote:
The current hospital has its origins in the Small Pox and Vaccination Hospital, built in 1848.

After smallpox treatment services transferred to Clare Hall Manor at South Mimms in 1896, a large new infirmary building was officially opened by the Duke and Duchess of York as the Highgate Hill Infirmary in 1900.[3] It became the Islington Infirmary in 1914 and it was taken over by the London County Council in 1930 and renamed St Mary's Hospital.[3[

[it then combined with other local hospitals]
The combined facility was named after Sir Richard Whittington, an English merchant, who had left a large sum to charitable causes supporting people in need.[5]


Since the hospital logo is a cat, I assume that is the mayor Dick Wittington.

Quote:
Richard Whittington (c. 1354–1423) of the parish of St Michael Paternoster Royal,[2] City of London, was an English merchant and a politician of the late medieval period. He is also the real-life inspiration for the English folk tale Dick Whittington and His Cat. He was four times Lord Mayor of London, a member of parliament and a sheriff of London. In his lifetime he financed a number of public projects, such as drainage systems in poor areas of medieval London, and a hospital ward for unmarried mothers. He bequeathed his fortune to form the Charity of Sir Richard Whittington which, nearly 600 years later, continues to assist people in need.[3]
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 10:05:45 AM

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Oh yes, accroding to information in Wikipedia, Sir Richard Whittington did know how to get things done! And put much of that to good use, too, if his foundation was really behind establishment of the hospital.

Quote:

He was born, probably in the 1350s, into an ancient and wealthy Gloucestershire gentry family,

was sent to the City of London to learn the trade of mercer

He became a successful merchant, dealing in valuable imports such as silks and velvets, both luxury fabrics, much of which he sold to royalty and nobility from about 1388

He also began money-lending in 1388

From 1392 to 1394 he sold goods to King Richard II worth £3,500 (equivalent to more than £1.5m today).

By 1397 he was also lending large sums of money to the king.

Two days after the death of Adam Bamme in June 1397, Whittington was imposed on the City by the king as his replacement as Lord Mayor of London. Within days Whittington had negotiated with the king a deal in which the City bought back its liberties for £10,000 (nearly £4m today).

The deposition of King Richard II in 1399 did not affect Whittington and it is thought that he merely acquiesced in the coup led by Bolingbroke, later King Henry IV, whom Whittington had long supplied with merchandise. He also lent the new king substantial amounts of money. He was elected Mayor again in 1406 and 1419

In 1402, at the age of 48, he married Alice FitzWaryn (d.1411), but she died without producing any issue.

He bequeathed his fortune to form the Charity of Sir Richard Whittington which, nearly 600 years later, continues to assist people in need.

Sarrriesfan
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 11:19:48 AM

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Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
Thar mentions the cat in its logo because of the legend of Dick Whittington and his cat, often performed in Pantomine in Britain at Christmas time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Whittington_and_His_Cat

Like a lot of folklore it's not true, but the story is so ingrained into British life that a cat is now associated with Richard Whittington for ever more.


Sarrriesfan
Posted: Monday, March 23, 2020 11:30:59 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
Posts: 1,809
Neurons: 11,613
Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
The Catholic Church has a long tradition of sponsoring hospitals that goes back more than a thousand years, the Knights of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem for formed to protect the one in the Holy Land. They are better known as the Knights Hospitaller and exist in some form even today although the original hospital does not.
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