The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

Self-relations Options
alibey1917
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 5:26:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2018
Posts: 248
Neurons: 5,615
"For anticommunists, the instrumentalism of comrade relations appears horrifying. Combined with the machinic impersonality and fungibility of comrades, the fact that relations between comrades are produced for an exterior purpose, that they are means rather than ends in themselves, seems morally objectionable. This objection fails to acknowledge the specificity of comradeship as a political relation, as being on the same side of struggle. It omits the way political work focuses on ends beyond the individual and so necessarily requires collective coordination. It presumes a totalizing politics that subsumes all relations rather than recognizing an abstract politics liberated or alienated from specific social relations. And it contracts the space of meaning into self-relations, as if abstracted generic relations among those faithful to a political truth could only be the result of manipulation." (jodi Dean, Comrade)

What does "self-relations" mean here?
thar
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 5:57:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,441
Neurons: 90,937
That this writing is tripe




seriously, I have no idea.
alibey1917
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 6:54:32 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2018
Posts: 248
Neurons: 5,615
thar yazdı:
That this writing is tripe




seriously, I have no idea.


Anxious
Wilmar (USA) 1M
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 8:53:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 4,847
Neurons: 1,141,970
Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
The point is that you're trying to make sense out of gibberish. The quality of the writing is very poor.
Wilmar (USA) 1M
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 8:53:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 4,847
Neurons: 1,141,970
Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
The point is that you're trying to make sense out of gibberish. The quality of the writing is very poor.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 10:19:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,441
Neurons: 90,937
alibey1917 wrote:
thar wrote:
That this writing is tripe


Anxious


If that means confusion, that is a joke. Tripe is another word for gibberish.
It is meat from the stomach of cows, and is not eaten so much nowadays in Britain, so here it has gone for dog food.

[quote]tripe

noun
1.
the first or second stomach of a cow or other ruminant used as food.
2.
INFORMAL
nonsense; rubbish.
"you do talk tripe sometimes"



although tripe is actually both beautiful and functional. This writing, in my opinion, is neither of those things.



Sorry to derail the thread when you want an answer, but I really think it has to come from the context of the rest of the piece - ie work out what the author probably means to say here, and that is what that phrase means!



alibey1917
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:30:38 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2018
Posts: 248
Neurons: 5,615
thar yazdı:
alibey1917 yazdı:
thar yazdı:
That this writing is tripe


Anxious


If that means confusion, that is a joke. Tripe is another word for gibberish.
It is meat from the stomach of cows, and is not eaten so much nowadays in Britain, so here it has gone for dog food.

[quote]tripe

noun
1.
the first or second stomach of a cow or other ruminant used as food.
2.
INFORMAL
nonsense; rubbish.
"you do talk tripe sometimes"



although tripe is actually both beautiful and functional. This writing, in my opinion, is neither of those things.



Sorry to derail the thread when you want an answer, but I really think it has to come from the context of the rest of the piece - ie work out what the author probably means to say here, and that is what that phrase means!

The thing I don't understand here is what "self-relations" means; the writer used the term here once and for all. As if what the writer meant with that is "individual relationships" but the term has no such a meaning.

Romany
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 5:14:10 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,423
Neurons: 56,086
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

although we have people from many walks of life here, I don't think we have any psychiatrists at the moment. So I suggest you go to the address below to get an overview of what the term itself means.

After that, I'm afraid you will have to see how that fits into this paragraph yourself.

Because, as is the general consensus, this person is a terrible writer - who breaks every rule of good writing. Which is why his writing has been labelled "gibberish". People who write like these are not just pretentious: - this kind of writing is not aimed at an audience - but simply at the author. It's usually employed by those who come from a non-educated background. They try to make up for this by stringing as many "big words" together as they can, in a vain attempt to make people think they are well-educated. In fact, it does the EXACT opposite. Trying to get inside the head of this kind of writer to tease out some kind of meaning is a complete waste of time; which is why no-one is interested in spending any time trying to find out what this silly person means. He's just stringing a whole lot of words and phrases together purely because he has problems with his own ego. Gibberish indeed.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/enlightened-living/201604/how-s-your-self-relationship
thar
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 11:17:54 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,441
Neurons: 90,937
But this is political science, not psychiatry - the relationship between comrades in a Marxist society is functional (the good of the many etc etc) - your job is to sacrifice for the revolution.
So the relationship between comrades is functional. political and sacrificial - lived out repeatedly as "the ideological ends justify the genocidal means". But the self-relationship? - I just can't see their point, here.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 12:06:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,076
Neurons: 67,035
alibey1917 wrote:
"For anticommunists, the instrumentalism of comrade relations appears horrifying. Combined with the machinic impersonality and fungibility of comrades, the fact that relations between comrades are produced for an exterior purpose, that they are means rather than ends in themselves, seems morally objectionable. This objection fails to acknowledge the specificity of comradeship as a political relation, as being on the same side of struggle. It omits the way political work focuses on ends beyond the individual and so necessarily requires collective coordination. It presumes a totalizing politics that subsumes all relations rather than recognizing an abstract politics liberated or alienated from specific social relations. And it contracts the space of meaning into self-relations, as if abstracted generic relations among those faithful to a political truth could only be the result of manipulation." (jodi Dean, Comrade)

What does "self-relations" mean here?


I'm assuming you are getting the point made in all this writing. It seems to be written as obtusely as possible. It's basically a praise of Communism through the sense of comradeship. If you are understanding all this, then if I were to reword the last line, I'd put it similar to this:

One objection anti-communists have is that the meaning of "comrade" is reduced to your personal self relationships, as if belief in a political "truth" can only be the result of manipulation rather than true belief in the ideology.

Even simpler: This is how the anti-communist thinks: As a "comrade", you must have been brain-washed, or manipulated to follow, or adhere, to Communism.
Romany
Posted: Friday, January 17, 2020 8:06:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,423
Neurons: 56,086
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Ali Bey,
My interpretation is different to FDs, and yours may differ from both. This is a feature of creative writing; but is anathema to serious - professional/academic writing.

While this is one of the reasons we native-speakers condemn this writing, perhaps a specific illustration may help?

In the second sentence the writer describes the "fungibility" of comrades. This is an unusual way to describe a human being. However, it says exactly, and to the point, what she's trying to get across: people who either know little, or who disprove of communism, think that those under communist rule have been purged of all feelings and are little more than robots.

THAT is all she's trying to say. And with the use of ONE WORD she says it. Everything that comes after is extraneous, it's merely expanding on what 'fungible' means. If she were a good - or even competent - user of English, she would have been able to make her point in a couple of lines instead of this dense display of verbiage soup.

As it is, she's such a terrible writer that, instead of even taking any notice of the key-word in the paragraph, we just assume that she has no idea what it means, just came across it by error and shoved it in!

TIP: I may be teaching my Grandmother to suck eggs here (an idiom which means: to tell someone something they have known for ages)here, but this is what I do:
If I want to research a particular theme I type it into e.bay. That brings up titles. Once you click onto the entry for the book, essay, thesis, if it is a reputable text, there will be an extract. From skimming through this extract one sees instantly if this writing will be terrific or terrible. Only once I've done this do I choose which ones I shall refer to.

Saves a lot of time and frustration!
alibey1917
Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2020 2:50:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2018
Posts: 248
Neurons: 5,615
Thank you for your times, friends.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.