The Free Dictionary  
mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest Forum Search | Active Topics | Members

participle & gerund (verb + n.+ v-ing) Options
zhonglc2020
Posted: Tuesday, November 26, 2019 11:43:30 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/7/2019
Posts: 205
Neurons: 2,540
Hello everyone,

The following sentences are invented by myself for grammar learning.

I know the man standing under the tree.

1. The first meaning jumping to mind is, I know the man, and he is standing under the tree now.
Here "standing under the tree" is a participle phrase. The participle phrase functions as an attributive of "the man".
The implied meaning, say, is: I know this man but I don't know that man who is standing by the door.

2. Can it also be read as : I know the-man's-standing-under-the-tree action/event?
That is, can I regard "the man standing" as a gerund structure? Is it possible?

3. And, neither of two "thes" can be replaced by "a" in this specific sentence.


I saw the man standing under the tree.
I've shifted "know" to "saw".
I think a different type of verbs will make a difference, though the structure remains the same.

1. Here "standing under the tree" is a complement. I saw the man, and he is standing there.
Basically, "standing under the tree" functions as a non-attributive. It adds more information to the man.
The implied meaning may be, There is only one man here I am talking about.

2. Similarly,my puzzle,
I saw the man's standing under the tree. --- Can this be possible?

3. And,
01 I hear the man singing.
02 I hear the man's singing
03 I hear the glass being broken.
04 I hear the glass' being broken,

# 01 and # 03 are correct. What about #02 and #04?



Many many thanks.

EDIT:
glass's --- > glass'
04 ----> 03


Gabriel82
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 1:05:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/2017
Posts: 123
Neurons: 791,455
Location: San Antonio, Texas, United States
zhonglc2020 wrote:
Hello everyone,

The following sentences are invented by myself for grammar learning.

I know the man standing under the tree.

1. The first meaning jumping to mind is, I know the man, and he is standing under the tree now.
Here "standing under the tree" is a participle phrase. The participle phrase functions as an attributive of "the man".
The implied meaning, say, is: I know this man but I don't know that man who is standing by the door.

2. Can it also be read as : I know the-man's-standing-under-the-tree action/event?
That is, can I regard "the man standing" as a gerund structure? Is it possible?

3. And, neither of two "thes" can be replaced by "a" in this specific sentence.


I saw the man standing under the tree.
I've shifted "know" to "saw".
I think a different type of verbs will make a difference, though the structure remains the same.

1. Here "standing under the tree" is a complement. I saw the man, and he is standing there.
Basically, "standing under the tree" functions as a non-attributive. It adds more information to the man.
The implied meaning may be, There is only one man here I am talking about.

2. Similarly,my puzzle,
I saw the man's standing under the tree. --- Can this be possible?

3. And,
01 I hear the man singing.
02 I hear the man's singing
03 I hear the glass being broken.
04 I hear the glass's being broken,

# 01 and # 04 are correct. What about #02 and #04?



Many many thanks.


I'm not really sure where you want to go with this, but I will break it down how I believe you're wanting.

I--subject
know--verb
man--direct object
standing under the tree--gerund phrase functioning as an adjective to tell you "which" man or "what kind" of man.

However, the man is not standing under the tree "now"--he is simply there. This is a declarative sentence that states a fact, nothing more. This is not an action nor an event.

On "I saw the man standing under the tree," the shift is incorrect. To conform to reporting, you must shift the same verb back one tense to the past.

Naturally changing the verb changes the meaning. If you "saw" the man, you only noted him there using your eyes. If you "knew" the man, then you recognized him because you met him before--and all this happened when you first saw him and your brain matched the image with your knowledge of this man.

Any time you use "the," you specify one particular person; if you use "a" this is considered indefinite and lacking specificity.

#4 must read "I hear the glasses being broken."

Hope this answers your questions.
zhonglc2020
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 1:43:52 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/7/2019
Posts: 205
Neurons: 2,540
Thank you, Gabriel82, but I am sorry I didn't express myself well and, disappointingly, I had a few typos.


1. I know the man standing under the tree.
2. I saw the man standing under the tree.

My questions again.
Of the two (different) sentences,
Do "the man standing under the tree." mean the same thing semantically and grammatically?

Can both (1-3) and (2-4) mean the same thing respectively?
3. I know the man's standing under the tree.
4. I saw the man's standing under the tree.


Yes,I have never seen #3 & #4, but are they possible with "'s" ?

Wilmar (USA) 1M
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:10:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/4/2015
Posts: 4,839
Neurons: 1,140,692
Location: Vinton, Iowa, United States
1 and 2 both mean the same thing, except for tense.
I know the man (who is) standing under the tree. I saw the man (who was) standing under the tree.

3 means something different.
I am aware of the man who is standing under the tree.

4 doesn't fit into the pattern you are attempting to create.
zhonglc2020
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 9:37:27 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/7/2019
Posts: 205
Neurons: 2,540
Thank you,wilmar.


the man's in the following each is not the contraction of "the man is",
but the genitive form. Please confirm, do they still make sense?

3. I know the man's standing under the tree.
4. I saw the man's standing under the tree.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:26:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,069
Neurons: 67,008
zhonglc2020 wrote:
Thank you,wilmar.


the man's in the following each is not the contraction of "the man is",
but the genitive form. Please confirm, do they still make sense?

3. I know the man's standing under the tree.
4. I saw the man's standing under the tree.


No. This doesn't work. Man's is possessive with the 's. You would use the word "man" alone. When you intend to use "man is", you must use it that way. It cannot be a contraction.
zhonglc2020
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2019 11:28:10 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/7/2019
Posts: 205
Neurons: 2,540
Got it. Thank you, FounDit.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.