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'recurring billing/leaking plumbing/escaped lion' NOT 'recurred billing/leaked plumbing/escaping lio Options
A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:16:42 PM

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Hi Everyone!

AFAIK,
1- Recur [always intransitive: to happen again or many times; if something, especially something bad or unpleasant, it happens again]
It was a theme that has recurred in many of her books

-a recurring problem
$90.70 for 12 months after trial period charged automatically. recurring billing. Cancel anytime.

2- Leak:[Intransitive/Transitive: to allow liquid or gas to get through a hole or crack; if a container, pipe, roof etc leaks, or if it leaks gas, liquid etc, there is a small hole or crack in it that lets the gas or liquid flow out through:
The leaking plumbing was repaired.

Escape (only intransitive: to get free; to get away from a place; to get away from a place when someone is trying to catch you or stop you leaving:
A lion escaped from its cage at Bristol Zoo last night.

I only see we can use the present participle of 'recur' and 'leak' as adjectival participles:
The leaking plumbing was repaired.
recurring billing
But, we cannot use the present participle of 'escape' as an adjectival participle:
An escaping lion(= a lion which is/was escaping)

On the other hand, we cannot use the past participle of 'recur' and 'leak' as adjectival participles:
a recurred problem (= a problem which has recurred)
a recurred theme (= a theme which has recurred)
a leaked plumping (= the plumbing which has leaked)
But, we can say use the past participle of 'escape' as an adjectival participle, and we cannot use
An escaped lion(= a lion which has escaped)

So, I am wondering why we cannot use the past participle of 'recur' and 'leak' as adjectival participles and we cannot use the present participle of 'escape' as an adjectival participle.


FounDit
Posted: Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:23:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
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A cooperator wrote:
Hi Everyone!

AFAIK,
1- Recur [always intransitive: to happen again or many times; if something, especially something bad or unpleasant, it happens again]
It was a theme that has recurred in many of her books

-a recurring problem
$90.70 for 12 months after trial period charged automatically. recurring billing. Cancel anytime.

2- Leak:[Intransitive/Transitive: to allow liquid or gas to get through a hole or crack; if a container, pipe, roof etc leaks, or if it leaks gas, liquid etc, there is a small hole or crack in it that lets the gas or liquid flow out through:
The leaking plumbing was repaired.

Escape (only intransitive: to get free; to get away from a place; to get away from a place when someone is trying to catch you or stop you leaving:
A lion escaped from its cage at Bristol Zoo last night.

I only see we can use the present participle of 'recur' and 'leak' as adjectival participles:
The leaking plumbing was repaired.
recurring billing
But, we cannot use the present participle of 'escape' as an adjectival participle:
An escaping lion(= a lion which is/was escaping.)

On the other hand, we cannot use the past participle of 'recur' and 'leak' as adjectival participles:
a recurred problem (= a problem which has recurred.)
a recurred theme (= a theme which has recurred.)
a leaked plumping (The plumbing which has leaked.)
But, we can say use the past participle of 'escape' as an adjectival participle, and we cannot use
An escaped lion(= a lion which has escaped.)

So, I am wondering why we cannot use the past participle of 'recur' and 'leak' as adjectival participles and we cannot use the present participle of 'escape' as an adjectival participle.

Because "recurring" and "leaking" are conditions that are on-going - they continue to happen again and again.

But an "escaping" lion is not something that continues to happen. Once the lion escapes, it is done. It doesn't repeat the action again and again.

A cooperator
Posted: Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:26:41 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,738
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
FounDit wrote:


Because "recurring" and "leaking" are conditions that are on-going - they continue to happen again and again.

But an "escaping" lion is not something that continues to happen. Once the lion escapes, it is done. It doesn't repeat the action again and again.


Thanks a lot, FounDit
So, 'escape' cannot be used in that way?

If I am going to classify words into three categories, then

1- do you know other words which can only be used the same way 'recur' and 'leak'(adjectival present participles) are used?

2- do you know other words which can only be used the same way 'escape' (only adjectival past participles) is used?

3- do you know other words which can be used both adjectival present participles and adjectival past participles?
thar
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 2:55:06 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 21,220
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It s not about a list of words - it is about the meaning.

A lion escapes once, in a single action.
You can describe the lion
- it might bite you - it is a dangerous lion
It has escaped from its enclosure - it is an escaped lion.


But the action of leaking is ongoing.
Gas and water can leak from a pipe. You can say that gas escapes from a container.
Then it is leaking gas, or escaping gas.

Because that action is ongoing
- the gas is escaping from the container
- the escaping gas is causing a problem


The only way you can build up an idea of which words can be used this way is by experience - when you read something that uses this meaning.

Eg
In this article there are nouns, verbs and adjectives/attributive nouns.

Quote:
How to Tell If Your Gas Stove Is Leaking?
By CHRIS DEZIEL

No matter where it occurs in your house, a gas leak is a serious matter, and one occurring behind the stove or in the oven could be especially dangerous. Gas can accumulate in the closed space and become an explosion waiting to happen before you're aware of the problem. Both propane and natural gas have additives to make them smell like rotten eggs, though, and detecting this odor is the first sign of a possible leak.

The Smell Test
When you light your stove, it's normal for a small amount of gas to escape unburned, and you'll notice the fleeting pungent odor of ethyl- or methylmercaptan, the smelly chemical the gas company adds to propane and natural gas, which are both naturally odorless. If the smell lingers, or you notice it before you turn on the gas, that's an indication of a leak.

VIDEO OF THE DAY
Open the oven door. If the smell suddenly becomes stronger, there may be a leak in the valve controls, and gas may be escaping from the burners.
Pull the stove out from the wall. If the odor of gas is stronger behind the stove, one of the connections between the main gas control and the stove is probably leaking.
Smell each burner on the stove top in turn. A strong smell near one of them signifies a probable issue with the the valve that controls that burner.


Step 1 Listen for hissing.
If the leak is large, you hear the sound of pressurized gas escaping.

Step 2 Look for bubbles.
Spray the gas connections, as well as the valve and hoses, with leak detecting spray, which you can buy at hardware stores. You can also make your own by mixing a 50-50 solution of dish soap and water. Any bubbles you see are signs of escaping gas.



That is escaping gas - it describes what the gas is doing - it is escaping. It is coming out of the pipe.


That is not the same as an escaped lion - a lion which has escaped.


The meaning in that context controls which word you use.

So now you have read that article and you know that people use 'escaping' to describe gas leaking from a pipe. Now you know and can use it in that situation. That is the only way to increase your knowledge - by meeting it as you read and listen to English texts and speech.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:29:31 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,738
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
thar wrote:
It s not about a list of words - it is about the meaning.

A lion escapes once, in a single action.
You can describe the lion
- it might bite you - it is a dangerous lion
It has escaped from its enclosure - it is an escaped lion.


But the action of leaking is ongoing.
Gas and water can leak from a pipe. You can say that gas escapes from a container.
Then it is leaking gas, or escaping gas.

Because that action is ongoing
- the gas is escaping from the container
- the escaping gas is causing a problem


Thanks a lot, Thar,
However, Audienduos, some day was drilling this rule into me:
An interesting book.(= a book which is interesting)
An engrossing story (= a story which is engrossing)
A boring party (= a party which was boring)
An enlightening explanation (= an explanation which is enlightening)

So, based on what Audienduos said, whatever a participle is, we can use this rule.
So, "The leaking plumbing was repaired" = (means) "The plumbing which was leaking was repaired."
"The escaping lion was being shot" = (means) "The lion which was escaping was being shot."


So, I've been still thinking of 'an escaping lion' as if it can be used the same why 'leaking plumbing,' and 'recurring billing' since we can say:
"The leaking plumbing was repaired" = (means) "The plumbing which was leaking was repaired."
"The escaping lion was being shot" = (means) "The lion which was escaping was being shot."

So, I can think of the "leaking" and "escaping" in the first half of pair of sentence as adjectival participle used attributively (before a noun).
But, in the second half of each pair of sentence as adjectival participle used predicatively (after a linking verb)

That is the reason I am still thinking of 'escaping' as an adjectival participle.

A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:59:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,738
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
thar wrote:
It s not about a list of words - it is about the meaning.

A lion escapes once, in a single action.
You can describe the lion
- it might bite you - it is a dangerous lion
It has escaped from its enclosure - it is an escaped lion.


But the action of leaking is ongoing.
Gas and water can leak from a pipe. You can say that gas escapes from a container.
Then it is leaking gas, or escaping gas.

Because that action is ongoing
- the gas is escaping from the container
- the escaping gas is causing a problem

Do you think 'floating,' 'arriving(incoming),' continuing,' 'moving,' etc can only be dealt with the same as in 'leaking' and 'recurring' since the action is ongoing? I.e. they can only be used as adjectival present participles, and not as adjectival past participles.

A man committed suicide by throwing himself under a moving train.
A moving train flipped over onto its other side. (= A train which was moving flipped over onto its other side)
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 8:44:28 PM
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Posts: 6,015
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Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
"The escaping lion was being shot" = (means) "The lion which was escaping was being shot."

If "escaping" is not instantaneous, then it is possible to say "is/was escaping", e.g: "The escaping lion was shot when it was halfway through the fence", "I saw the escaping prisoner on top of the wall". But "shooting" is obviously instantaneous, so we have to say "was shot", not "was being shot".

A cooperator wrote:
That is the reason I am still thinking of 'escaping' as an adjectival participle.

No, it is part of a continuous tense. See my comment in the "leaking" thread (we cannot say "was very escaping").
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:08:03 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,738
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
"The escaping lion was being shot" = (means) "The lion which was escaping was being shot."

If "escaping" is not instantaneous, then it is possible to say "is/was escaping", e.g: "The escaping lion was shot when it was halfway through the fence", "I saw the escaping prisoner on top of the wall". But "shooting" is obviously instantaneous, so we have to say "was shot", not "was being shot".


Having said "If "escaping" is not instantaneous, then it is possible to say "is/was escaping", I understand that 'escaping' can either be not instantaneous "is/was escaping", or obviously instantaneous "escapes/espaced".
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:58:33 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
Yes, but even "escaping" is obviously instantaneous due to occurring or done in an instant or instantly(it's a continuous event).


It cannot be both instantaneous and continuous. That is a contradiction.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2019 10:47:14 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,738
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Yes, but even "escaping" is obviously instantaneous due to occurring or done in an instant or instantly(it's a continuous event).


It cannot be both instantaneous and continuous. That is a contradiction.

First, the translation of 'instantaneous' means occuring or done in an instant or instantly'.
So, I am thinking of 'instantaneous' and 'continuous' as the same - the action is continuous.


Second, so are you now saying "shooting" is obviously instantaneous, so we have to say "was shot", not "was being shot"." since 'shooting' cannot be in a progressive tense (a continuous event), but 'escaping' can be?

As a result, "The escaping lion is/was shot when it is/was halfway through the fence" = "The lion which is/was escaping is/was shot when it is/was halfway through the fence" is correct.

But, "The escaping lion is/was being shot when it is/was halfway through the fence" = "The lion which is/was escaping is/was being shot when it is/was halfway through the fence" is incorrect.

Final, but FounDit said "Because "recurring" and "leaking" are conditions that are on-going - they continue to happen again and again. But an "escaping" lion is not something that continues to happen. Once the lion escapes, it is done. It doesn't repeat the action again and again."
So, I think that "If "escaping" is not instantaneous, then it is possible to say "is/was escaping" is a contradiction to what FounDit said that ""escaping" lion is not something that continues to happen."
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2019 9:16:10 PM
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A cooperator wrote:
First, the translation of 'instantaneous' means occuring or done in an instant or instantly'. Yes.
So, I am thinking of 'instantaneous' and 'continuous' as the same - the action is continuous. But if it is done in an instant, it does not continue, so it is not 'continuous'.

'Escaping' can be thought of either as a single (instantaneous) event, or as an action that takes some time – maybe seconds or minutes, or even longer. For example, if a prisoner is on top of a prison wall, or part of the way through an escape tunnel, we can say that he/she has begun his/her escape but not yet completed it. So if we wish to refer to a particular moment during the escape process, we can say "is/was escaping".

Shooting (in the sense of 'hitting with a bullet fired from a gun'), however, takes only a tiny fraction of a second. It is far too short a time for anything to happen during it. So we would not say "is/was being shot".
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