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'leaking' is an adjectival participle or present continuous tense + an intransitive verb Options
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2020 1:25:32 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
Also, till now, "-ing" word can be used as a verb (He is working), an adjective(a working mother), a gerund (two working days), or a noun (The inner workings of a computer are beyond me.)
In general, not only for "working", don't you think it would be confused between if -ing word is part of a progressive tense, a gerund, or a noun? For instance, "working" in "It's working". It's just an example to convey the meaning.

The grammatical analysis will sometimes depend on the context, e.g:

"I have good news about my computer. It's working." [part of progressive tense]["it" = the computer]
"Do you know the activity I hate most? It's working." [gerund]["it" = the activity I hate most]

However, you do not need to analyse "-ing" words in order to use them correctly.
Audiendus
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2020 1:37:33 AM
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A cooperator wrote:
However, about participles, I don't know if they can be used attributively, postpostively, and predicatively.

As a result, what difference would be there between each pair of the sentences below?

The available price for the public is reasonable.
The price available for the public is reasonable.

The exhausting work is a bad job.
The work exhausting is a bad work.

"the revolting food..."
"the food revolting.... "

His leering glances were revolting to her.
His glances leering were revolting to her.

Training teachers can teach students.
Teachers training can teach students.

Experiencing teachers could facilitate a language learning.
Teachers experiencing could facilitate a language learning.

The shown price is high.
The price shown is high.

Trained teachers can teach students.
Teachers trained can teach students.

Experienced teachers could facilitate a language learning.
Teachers experienced could facilitate a language learning.


Some of the above examples are incorrect. Which ones do you think are wrong?
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:04:46 PM

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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
How could you directly distinguish that "learning" is certainly a noun(I.e, a gerund didn't come to mind), however, "working" is a gerund used adjectivally?


"Working" in "working days" and "learning" in "learning tips" are both gerunds used adjectivally. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

A gerund basically acts as a noun. Like ordinary nouns, it can be used adjectivally (attributively):

rest day
celebration day
working day

health tips
exam tips
learning tips


Audiendus,
First, if you're going to be looking at the logic of being 'learning' and 'working' are gerunds used adjectivally in the following:
"Please sign me up to learning tips."
"The transfer of money from Webmoney to a bank account takes from 1 to 3 working days."

Then, you don't think that 'volunteering' in 'volunteering' is a gerund used adjectivally in "For example, we suggest to list all volunteering and extra-curricular activities that are related to your studies or professional development."?

Final, having said 'a gerund used adjectivally', then what difference would be there when '-ing' word used as an adjectival participle and when a gerund used adjectivally?
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 7:57:16 PM

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Joined: 10/27/2011
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
However, about participles, I don't know if they can be used attributively, postpostively, and predicatively.

As a result, what difference would be there between each pair of the sentences below?

The available price for the public is reasonable.
The price available for the public is reasonable.

The exhausting work is a bad job.
The work exhausting is a bad work.

"the revolting food..."
"the food revolting.... "

His leering glances were revolting to her.
His glances leering were revolting to her.

Training teachers can teach students.
Teachers training can teach students.

Experiencing teachers could facilitate a language learning.
Teachers experiencing could facilitate a language learning.

The shown price is high.
The price shown is high.

Trained teachers can teach students.
Teachers trained can teach students.

Experienced teachers could facilitate a language learning.
Teachers experienced could facilitate a language learning.


Some of the above examples are incorrect. Which ones do you think are wrong?


Audiendus,

Only the ones I think are wrong are as follows:
Training teachers can teach students.
Experiencing teachers could facilitate a language learning.
But, when seeing 'Sync is currently experiencing problems. It will be back shortly.", and thinking I can say 'experiencing sync (=sync which is experiencing problems', then I thought 'Experiencing teachers' and 'Training teachers' are correct.

I am concerned about I don't know if participles can be used attributively, postpostively, and predicatively or not.
Also, if they can be used like some ordinary adjectives, then what difference would be there in each pair of those sentences?

Audiendus
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 9:49:26 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 6,582
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Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
First, if you're going to be looking at the logic of being 'learning' and 'working' are gerunds used adjectivally in the following:
"Please sign me up to learning tips."
"The transfer of money from Webmoney to a bank account takes from 1 to 3 working days."

Then, you don't think that 'volunteering' in 'volunteering' is a gerund used adjectivally in "For example, we suggest to list all volunteering and extra-curricular activities that are related to your studies or professional development."? Yes, I think so. Volunteering activities and extra-curricular activities.

Final, having said 'a gerund used adjectivally', then what difference would be there when '-ing' word used as an adjectival participle and when a gerund used adjectivally? "Volunteering students" means students who volunteer, so 'volunteering' is an adjectival participle there. But "volunteering activities" means activities related to volunteering (not activities which volunteer), so 'volunteering' is a gerund used adjectivally there.
Audiendus
Posted: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:03:53 PM
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Joined: 8/24/2011
Posts: 6,582
Neurons: 1,243,482
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
A cooperator wrote:
Audiendus wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
However, about participles, I don't know if they can be used attributively, postpostively, and predicatively.

As a result, what difference would be there between each pair of the sentences below?

The available price for the public is reasonable.
The price available for the public is reasonable.
I cannot really see any difference, but they sound rather odd. We do not normally say that a price is 'available' – we say that goods are available for a particular price.

The exhausting work is a bad job.
The work exhausting is a bad work.
The second one is wrong. 'Exhausting' is an adjective here, not part of a progressive tense, so it goes before the noun. To a native speaker, 'exhausting' is just a description, not an action. It is different from "the people attending", where we think of the action of attending ("the people who are attending").

"the revolting food..."
"the food revolting.... "
As above. "Revolting" is not an action.

His leering glances were revolting to her.
His glances leering were revolting to her.
As above. "Leering" is not an action here. Glances do not leer; people leer.

Training teachers can teach students.
Teachers training can teach students.
Neither of these is wrong; "training" can be thought of either as a description or an action. However, the sentences are ambiguous; they probably refer to teachers who are being trained, but they could also mean teachers who are training other people.

Experiencing teachers could facilitate a language learning.
Teachers experiencing could facilitate a language learning.

Neither of these makes sense. Experiencing what? (Also, "a" before "language learning" is wrong; "learning" is uncountable.)

The shown price is high.
The price shown is high.
No difference, but "the price shown" sounds more natural.

Trained teachers can teach students.
Teachers trained can teach students.
No difference, but only "trained teachers" sounds natural. We would say "teachers trained" only as part of a longer phrase, e.g. "teachers trained in any subject".

Experienced teachers could facilitate a language learning.
Teachers experienced could facilitate a language learning.
See above. The second one sounds completely unnatural. But we could say "teachers who are experienced" or "teachers experienced in...".


A cooperator wrote:
But, when seeing 'Sync is currently experiencing problems. It will be back shortly.", and thinking I can say 'experiencing sync (=sync which is experiencing problems' No, "experiencing sync" makes no sense. Experiencing what? ("problems" has been omitted).

I am concerned about I don't know if participles can be used attributively, postpositively, and predicatively or not.
Also, if they can be used like some ordinary adjectives, then what difference would be there in each pair of those sentences? I am sorry, I cannot give you any general rules. It depends on whether a native speaker thinks of the word as an adjective (a description) or a verb (an action or event). This is something you can only learn through practical experience of English.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, May 17, 2020 10:19:26 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,818
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Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hi Everyone!

I don't know if I should've created a new thread or not. I've posted it here, because, having seen it is a thread-related question, I always tend to keep questions being posted in the relevant threads.


I am expecting 'listen' cannot be used as an adjectival participle. However, I see it is used in both cases, an adjectival present participle and past participle:


Listened(adj)
- My spoken and listened English haven’t improved.

So, do you think that 'listening' is a gerund used adjectivally in:

- Be the person to start conversations in English. Try to keep the conversations moving and use listening words('really?'/'go on...'/ 'what happened then?')
BBC Learning English website will help you practice English listening skills."


Also, do you think 'sounding' here is a gerund used adjectivally in:
"Similar-sounding words":
"dissemble" and "disassemble" are considered similar-sounding words.
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