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FYI- A geopolitical earthquake has shaken US leadership in the world — Russia and China stand to ben Options
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 6:49:45 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Lotje1000 wrote:
Man... This must be one truly global conspiracy against Trump.


Depending on which side of the argument you're on, you may think this is a good thing or a bad thing.
But a global conspiracy is certainly there.
Lotje1000
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 7:02:38 AM

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Not sure if there's a conspiracy if tons of people obviously state they don't like Trump, his policies, his approach to diplomacy and all the things he stands for.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 7:21:46 AM

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Lotje1000 wrote:
Not sure if there's a conspiracy if tons of people obviously state they don't like Trump, his policies, his approach to diplomacy and all the things he stands for.


But we are talking not about many people thinking some way, but about an obvious coordinated effort, including by vast majority of world media, and this is a definition of conspiracy.

I mean, even Russian media that otherwise try to steer their way through Putin's era very carefully while secretely waiting for him to go, contribute their little penny, by often adopting a sarcastic tone whenever they mention or cite Trump.
Lotje1000
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 7:35:57 AM

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The main definitions:

Quote:
con·spir·a·cy (kən-spîr′ə-sē)
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.


Now, lots of people disliking Trump, his policies, his approach to diplomacy and all things he stands for aren't an "Agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful or subversive act". You could say it can be perceived as "a joining or acting together, as if by sinister design", but then that's an opinion/interpretation, hardly a certainty.

Perhaps you could argue that the media expressing an opinion could be seen as a subversive act, but I have yet to see any proof that all media are agreeing to work together on "hating Trump". All I have seen is media saying they are doing what journalists are supposed to do: report truthfully on what is happening. And what they report, just so happen to be things that a lot of people don't like.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 7:50:10 AM

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Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Lotje1000 wrote:
I have yet to see any proof that all media are agreeing to work together on "hating Trump".


I bet you're not the only one looking for that proof Dancing
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:42:09 AM

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A global consensus is more like it. A rare thing of beauty.

The need for action on climate mitigation is also becoming a consensus amongst countries.

Even the American Congress is trying to figure out rules on how to impeach Trump this morning.

The fact the Democrats are even considering getting approval is telling as they have resisted until now, fearing it would affect the 2020 election. But they felt Ukrainegate was the last straw and easily proven.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:47:54 AM

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LogicDefined wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Gosh, how would I know about Trump's reporting of the Baghdadi raid? Oh, I dunno. I guess even the UK press must be Trump "haters".

The Guardian (UK) "Doubts over Donald Trump's dramatic account of Baghdadi raid"

BBC "Trump takes partisan line after raid"

NBC News "Officials cringed as Trump spilled sensitive details of al-Baghdadi raid"

Fox News "NPR accuses Trump of spiking the football"



And herein is Hope123's problem. Look at the sources she's offered. All FakeNews. ALL Trump-hating media, paid by George Soros, by the way. If I were a doctor, I would write a prescription for her: "Listen to Mark Levin, Sean Hannity back to back every day for one month. Read or watch nothing else. Listen to nothing else. By the end of the month, you will have all the answers to the questions you've asked regarding President Trump." If you would take this challenge, by the end of the month, you, too will be an avid supporter (not that it matters). Somehow, though, I don't believe you will accept the challenge. Why? Because you reject the truth everytime I, and others have posted here. It is as if you didn't even read what we've said. You ask the same questions over and over. You are satisfied believing the lies. You have chosen to believe a lie and no one can help you, but you. I cannot know why you would choose to reject the truth. Only you know why. You have to want and love the truth. And how do I know I know the truth? Because that is my mission. To know the truth as it sets us free. A lively debate is fun and challenging, but at some point, it becomes a waste of time as someone has to concede. Everyone has motives in life. I have come to a point where I really don't care how or what others think. If they appear to want the truth, I'll try to help. If the truth is presented, then rejected, I move on. And, yes. The UK media also hates him. Listen to Trump's speeches to NATO and the U.N. Then you will know why. They are not happy being cut-off the gravy train they've enjoyed at American taxpayers' expense. https://www.talkstreamlive.com/for your convenience if you decide to accept the challenge.


When millions of Americans are cut off from the truth, Americans are in a truly terrifying position. Calling Trump's base a mass cult is not hyperbole. They will believe anything Trump or his minions say because they have been led to believe that all media except Fox is lying. But even Fox has turned a corner, although the reporter who stuck to the truth just left.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 10:51:52 AM

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In answer to my question about whether or not the photo of Trump during the Baghdadi raid was faked because of the timeline, it does appear to be genuine. Reports that the raid took place at 3:30 were apparently incorrect.

Just wanted to set the record straight as the truth is always the right way to go.
leonAzul
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 12:31:08 PM

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Hope123 wrote:


BTW - how is it legal to ignore a subpoena in the US?



It's not legal.

There will be consequences. For those who still have neurons that can hold a memory for more than 72 hours, those who flouted Congressional subpoenas during the Clinton impeachment process did prison time.

Meanwhile, Cheetoh MacBonespurs & Co have generated such a $#!+3 storm that Congress is compelled to deal with the solid, floating turds before considering the rest of the slurry.
LogicDefined
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:45:11 PM
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Lotje1000 wrote:
Not sure if there's a conspiracy if tons of people obviously state they don't like Trump, his policies, his approach to diplomacy and all the things he stands for.


There is DEFINITELY a conspiracy! Have you heard of the many indictments issued for those involved in human trafficking? corruption? treason? sedition? Trump signed an EO in 2017 anyone found guilty of any involvement in that trade, harming any child or person if found guilty to be put to death. THAT is the reason for this madness!! There are thousands who have participated. I think the last count I heard was 240,000, but don't quote me on that. If I see it again, I will come back to edit this post as I don't want to exaggerate. I mentioned that number as that is what I think it was! It leads straight up to Mrs. Clinton's Foundation! The hub in which it begins.

The many people who hate Trump are those who get their information from FakeNews which conglomerate is bought and paid for by George Soros. It is HE who dictates what he wants the masses to believe and be deceived. FakeNews is the Alphabet media, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, and others. Even FOX! They are all controlled by those trying to bring Trump down. They fear him because if he succeeds in Making America Great, Again, they are FINISHED!! Some may even be put to death if not locked up for the rest of their natural lives. The End Game is if Soros wins, the whole world falls under the control of GLOBALISM!!! If that happens, the whole world becomes the slaves of a corrupt and evil few. Which includes all of us. Even Hope123!! Something that she should carefully consider.
LogicDefined
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 5:07:39 PM
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leonAzul wrote:
Hope123 wrote:


BTW - how is it legal to ignore a subpoena in the US?



It's not legal.

There will be consequences. For those who still have neurons that can hold a memory for more than 72 hours, those who flouted Congressional subpoenas during the Clinton impeachment process did prison time.

Meanwhile, Cheetoh MacBonespurs & Co have generated such a $#!+3 storm that Congress is compelled to deal with the solid, floating turds before considering the rest of the slurry.


It's CONGRESS that's committing treason!!! It is THEY who are breaking every law to do what they are doing! Which is a COUP against a LEGALLY, DULY-ELECTED PRESIDENT!!! Perhaps you should check on your neurons. Maybe you just listen to FAKE NEWS! Take my suggestion to Hope123 and click on the link and listen to Mark Levin and Sean Hannity for a month. Especially Mark. He is one sharp lawyer who worked in Reagan's administration.

Edited for your information. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6B0NzrSDs8
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 8:18:44 PM

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LD,

Please note. This is a language forum where we have a sub forum to discuss politics, not conspiracy theories.
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 9:28:41 PM

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It isn't a theory, it is a fact, but more properly called subversion.

subversion (səbˈvɜːʃən) or subversal
n
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the act or an instance of subverting or overthrowing a legally constituted government, institution, etc. [emphasis mine]

In this case, the Democrat Party is seeking to overthrow and render null and void, the duly elected President of the United States.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:27:29 PM

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Trump is accused of using the power of his office to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 US election. Both he and his lawyer admitted it.

The charges are abuse of power, obstruction of justice and contempt of Congress. Same as against Clinton.

Am I too naive about American politics to think the following is also corruption? Trump bribing senators with funds to back him against impeachment?

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/31/trump-impeachment-senators-donor-062084

Senators who were adamant about not prejudging the evidence against Trump because they’ll be jurors need to avoid taking money he steers their way for the same reason. Unless it’s now ok to be paying off jurors, too.
LogicDefined
Posted: Thursday, October 31, 2019 11:51:03 PM
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Lotje1000 wrote:
Not sure if there's a conspiracy if tons of people obviously state they don't like Trump, his policies, his approach to diplomacy and all the things he stands for.


There are MORE of those who love Trump than those who don't. We love his policies, his approach to diplomacy and EVERYTHING he stands for. We like it that he works for us, the people. The others just need to put their Big-boy/Big-girl pants on and accept the results of the election. We had grown weary with years and years of politicians running our country solely for monetary gain and their socialist/communist agendas and elected a street-smart businessman with New York ways. You don't like the way he talks? Tough!! We LOVE it!

The fact that Trump won the election proves you wrong. There are traitors, however, who are willing to bring down the greatest country ever founded and for what? A global conspiracy to enslave every man, woman, child of not just America, but the whole world. Which side are you on? Do you want to be a slave? or a free man or woman with rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as the Founding Fathers intended?


There is a coup led by Trump-haters to overthrow him and the media is complicit. It has worked tirelessly since the Deep State assassinated another great president in 1963. This CABAL will not stop in their efforts until they are arrested for their crimes and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! If they aren't stopped, WE ALL LOSE!
LogicDefined
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 12:11:29 AM
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Hope123 wrote:
Trump is accused of using the power of his office to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 US election. Both he and his lawyer admitted it.

Where did he and Guilani admit it? Link, please.

The charges are abuse of power, obstruction of justice and contempt of Congress. Same as against Clinton.

You mean as in "quid pro quo"? as in Biden's admission on video? Or are you referring to the AG and senators ignoring Shiffy Schiff's illegal subpoenas? You DO know, don't you, that Schiff and Pelosi have committed treason? They have NO EVIDENCE of wrongdoing by the president!

Am I too naive about American politics to think the following is also corruption? Trump bribing senators with funds to back him against impeachment?

Not naive. Just brain-washed by American media.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/31/trump-impeachment-senators-donor-062084

Senators who were adamant about not prejudging the evidence against Trump because they’ll be jurors need to avoid taking money he steers their way for the same reason. Unless it’s now ok to be paying off jurors, too.


Just more propaganda lies from the lying, FakeNews American media, and senators who have a whole lot to lose if Trump and Americans win this war. If you want the truth, please listen to Mark Levin and Sean Hannity. If you're not interested in the truth, let me know. I'll just continue to refute everything you say. I have a lot of time.
LogicDefined
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 12:43:38 AM
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Hope123 wrote:
LD,

Please note. This is a language forum where we have a sub forum to discuss politics, not conspiracy theories.


Maybe this will help you see the other side. Listen to these congressmen and women. Adam Schiff has shut them out of a process they by law are permitted to be present. It is Schiff who is the law-breaker. He's broken every rule and law of the House by his actions. Get involved by listening to BOTH SIDES then decide for yourself, not someone else's opinion (media). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6B0NzrSDs8resolution This will give you a glimpse of the other side of the argument. Play Devil's advocate! Listen to the facts.
LogicDefined
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 2:45:58 AM
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Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:
I have yet to see any proof that all media are agreeing to work together on "hating Trump".


I bet you're not the only one looking for that proof Dancing



Maybe this will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9KAFn1hy8 Enjoy!
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 2:53:06 AM

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FounDit wrote:
the duly elected President of the United States.


I've heard that rumor several times before. It's the epitome of fake news! little donny has admitted that he benefited from Russia's interference in the 2016 election. Duly elected? What a farce!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/30/politics/donald-trump-russia-robert-mueller/index.html
Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 3:44:02 AM

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LogicDefined wrote:
Kirill Vorobyov wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:
I have yet to see any proof that all media are agreeing to work together on "hating Trump".


I bet you're not the only one looking for that proof Dancing



Maybe this will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN9KAFn1hy8 Enjoy!

Did you know you keep increasing your font size? I can guarantee you we read the standard font size just fine.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 5:55:32 AM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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It’s simple. Either you’re fine with a President bribing a foreign country to help you win an election (2020) or you’re not. If you’re fine with it then you’re fine to junk the Constitution and destroy 243 years of self rule.

Now Trump's trying to bribe the Republican party to side with him on his impeachment.

As well, Mueller made it clear he did not exonerate Trump for obstruction of justice. He just didn't indict a sitting president.

Dozens of Republicans are sitting in on the hearings yet several Republicans, some of those who had already been attending, obstructed justice by staging an illegal sit-in - with their electronic devices with them against the rules.

Thar says something to the effect in another thread, that it is all incredible and very sad what is happening to America and all its people, and I agree.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 11:28:19 AM

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Joined: 9/19/2011
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Hope123 wrote:
It’s simple. Either you’re fine with a President bribing a foreign country to help you win an election (2020) or you’re not. If you’re fine with it then you’re fine to junk the Constitution and destroy 243 years of self rule.
There was no bribe.

Now Trump's trying to bribe the Republican party to side with him on his impeachment.
A lie.

As well, Mueller made it clear he did not exonerate Trump for obstruction of justice. He just didn't indict a sitting president.
It is not the job of a prosecutor to exonerate. The job is to investigate criminal behavior, of which there was none.

Dozens of Republicans are sitting in on the hearings yet several Republicans, some of those who had already been attending, obstructed justice by staging an illegal sit-in - with their electronic devices with them against the rules.
And they have every right to do so. This is not a one-party ruled government - yet - as much as the Socialists would like to be. If they want to impeach the President, then they have to engage all members of Congress in that effort.

Thar says something to the effect in another thread, that it is all incredible and very sad what is happening to America and all its people, and I agree.
It is sad that some many people are infected with anger, bitterness, and hate simply because they lost an election.

It's almost like a plague spreading through society, infecting those with weak immune systems (in this case, weak minds), causing rage, illogical thinking, and hatred. Early on, after the election, whenever I would ask people why they hated Trump so much, no one could give an answer. The only thing they could say was that Hillary was supposed to win. And because she didn't, they hated Trump and actively looked for reasons to do so.

There seems to be a concerted effort to shut down the voice of the people (and don't give me that crap about popular vote. Our system has NEVER elected a President by popular vote. It isn't designed that way).

The same thing seems to be happening in other countries as well, such as the Brexit vote. The people voted, but the globalist forces want to revoke the will of the voters. Everywhere people are standing up against power, they are being attacked (Hong Kong is another). And weak-minded people nod their heads in agreement with having their wills subjugated, like good little sheep.

It's an infection. We need to give it a name. Let's call it "dumb-ass syndrome"...Whistle

Hope123
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 7:58:30 PM

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Joined: 3/23/2015
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FounDit wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
It’s simple. Either you’re fine with a President bribing a foreign country to help you win an election (2020) or you’re not. If you’re fine with it then you’re fine to junk the Constitution and destroy 243 years of self rule.

There was no bribe.


Perhaps you prefer the word extortion.

1. Security assistance time-sensitive money to Ukraine was withheld in defiance of explicit congressional direction, causing problems for the Pentagon.

2. The money to Ukraine was dependent upon Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announcing investigations into the 2016 election and Burisma, the energy company on whose board Biden's son served. Former Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko said Biden's son did nothing wrong.

The summary Trump himself released says that is what happened. Bill Taylor, Mick Mulvaney, Lt. Col. Vindman, and Gordon Sondland all say so. Guiliani said so on TV Sept 19. At first Guiliani denied he had asked Ukrainian officials to investigate Joe Biden, but moments later stated, "Of course I did." Trump told Ukraine to check with Barr and Guiliani so they were working for Trump. Former prosecutor Yuri Lutsenko told the Los Angeles Times Giuliani had repeatedly demanded that the Ukrainians investigate the Biden family.

Why did the WH originally deep classify the transcript? Why was the summary released not complete? Why has the WH impeded the testimony of state dept officials? Why has the State Department refused to hand over documents related to the impeachment inquiry, leaving a valuable paper trail just out of reach for investigators?





[image not available]



Now Trump's trying to bribe the Republican party to side with him on his impeachment.

A lie.


Baloney.

"On Wednesday, the Trump reelection campaign sent a fundraising appeal to its massive email list urging donors to provide a contribution that would be divided amongst the president and Colorado Sen. Cory Gardner, Iowa Sen. Joni Ernst, and North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis. Each of the senators are supporting the anti-impeachment resolution despite being endangered in 2020.

“If we don’t post strong fundraising numbers,” the message warned, “we won't be able to defend the President from this baseless Impeachment WITCH HUNT.”"
Politico


As well, Mueller made it clear he did not exonerate Trump for obstruction of justice. He just didn't indict a sitting president.

It is not the job of a prosecutor to exonerate. The job is to investigate criminal behavior, of which there was none.

Maybe you prefer Mueller's exact words instead of my non legal exonerate:

Nadler: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice? Is that correct?

MUELLER: That is correct."



Dozens of Republicans are sitting in on the hearings yet several Republicans, some of those who had already been attending, obstructed justice by staging an illegal sit-in - with their electronic devices with them against the rules.
And they have every right to do so. This is not a one-party ruled government - yet - as much as the Socialists would like to be. If they want to impeach the President, then they have to engage all members of Congress in that effort.

There are protocols and laws not being followed by the Republicans.

Thar says something to the effect in another thread, that it is all incredible and very sad what is happening to America and all its people, and I agree.
It is sad that some many people are infected with anger, bitterness, and hate simply because they lost an election.

Oh. Gawd. Get over the "lost the election bit". A lot of water over the bridge since then.

It's almost like a plague spreading through society, infecting those with weak immune systems (in this case, weak minds), causing rage, illogical thinking, and hatred. Early on, after the election, whenever I would ask people why they hated Trump so much, no one could give an answer. The only thing they could say was that Hillary was supposed to win. And because she didn't, they hated Trump and actively looked for reasons to do so.

There seems to be a concerted effort to shut down the voice of the people (and don't give me that crap about popular vote. Our system has NEVER elected a President by popular vote. It isn't designed that way).

The same thing seems to be happening in other countries as well, such as the Brexit vote. The people voted, but the globalist forces want to revoke the will of the voters. Everywhere people are standing up against power, they are being attacked (Hong Kong is another). And weak-minded people nod their heads in agreement with having their wills subjugated, like good little sheep.

It's an infection. We need to give it a name. Let's call it "dumb-ass syndrome"...Whistle



You are right about the hatred around for several years that has been growing steadily through infection since about 2015 when given the stamp of approval. Too many people for too few resources, war causing refugees - and with loss of land through climate change there will a lot more before too long. Canada just had its nastiest election ever but thank goodness Canadians are not infected with hatred. They just kicked out an alt-right party that stood for hatred and were following Trump's methods/white nationalism. Not one seat in parliament with the leader losing his seat.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, November 1, 2019 10:39:09 PM

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Media Fact Check bias says UK "Independent" has clean fact check record.

From the "Independent": "It’s like nothing we have come across before’: UK intelligence officials shaken by Trump administration’s requests for help with counter-impeachment inquiry...

Trump and Barr have also been asking other foreign governments for help in investigating the FBI, CIA and Mueller investigators. The US president has called on the Australian prime minister Scott Morrison for assistance, while the attorney general has been on similar missions to the UK and Italy.

And the information being requested has left allies astonished. One British official with knowledge of Barr’s wish list presented to London commented that “it is like nothing we have come across before, they are basically asking, in quite robust terms, for help in doing a hatchet job on their own intelligence services”.

I also read they even asked China for help. Desperation.
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, November 2, 2019 11:37:00 AM

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Hope123 wrote:
FounDit wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
It’s simple. Either you’re fine with a President bribing a foreign country to help you win an election (2020) or you’re not. If you’re fine with it then you’re fine to junk the Constitution and destroy 243 years of self rule.

There was no bribe.


Perhaps you prefer the word extortion.
There was no extortion. Ukraine got the money and didn't have to do anything for it. This is unlike Obama and Biden extorting the Ukrainians. Joe Biden bragged they wouldn't get one billion dollars in aid if they didn't fire the prosecutor looking into the corruption that resulted in Hunter Biden being paid millions for a job he was unqualified to do.

Joe was then videotaped bragging and laughing that within 24 hours "the son-of-a-bitch" was fired.

1. Security assistance time-sensitive money to Ukraine was withheld in defiance of explicit congressional direction, causing problems for the Pentagon.
Once again you reveal your ignorance. Congress appropriates money, but the President is in charge of foreign policy. If he wants to withhold it, he can.

2. The money to Ukraine was dependent upon Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announcing investigations into the 2016 election and Burisma, the energy company on whose board Biden's son served. Former Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko said Biden's son did nothing wrong.
Another lie. The money had been authorized under Obama, but the former government of Ukraine was so corrupt, there was hesitancy to deliver the money to it. When the government changed hands, and Zelensky took charge, the money was released. Trump merely asked for Zelensky's help in uncovering the corruption that took place in the previous administration; a perfectly acceptable thing to do if we are going to be sending them aid.

The summary Trump himself released says that is what happened. Bill Taylor, Mick Mulvaney, Lt. Col. Vindman, and Gordon Sondland all say so. Ah, Trump haters say so. It must be true then. Right.
Guiliani said so on TV Sept 19. At first Guiliani denied he had asked Ukrainian officials to investigate Joe Biden, but moments later stated, "Of course I did." Trump told Ukraine to check with Barr and Guiliani so they were working for Trump. Former prosecutor Yuri Lutsenko told the Los Angeles Times Giuliani had repeatedly demanded that the Ukrainians investigate the Biden family.
Well, of course you would have a problem with investigating the corruption of the Bidens. No surprise there.

Why did the WH originally deep classify the transcript? Why was the summary released not complete? Why has the WH impeded the testimony of state dept officials? Why has the State Department refused to hand over documents related to the impeachment inquiry, leaving a valuable paper trail just out of reach for investigators?

Because no crime has been committed, there is nothing to hand over. Aside from that, all phone calls made from the White House a classified. Once again, your ignorance would fill an abyss.


Now Trump's trying to bribe the Republican party to side with him on his impeachment.

A lie.


Baloney.

"On Wednesday, the Trump reelection campaign sent a fundraising appeal to its massive email list urging donors to provide a contribution that would be divided amongst the president and Colorado Sen. Cory Gardner, Iowa Sen. Joni Ernst, and North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis. Each of the senators are supporting the anti-impeachment resolution despite being endangered in 2020.

“If we don’t post strong fundraising numbers,” the message warned, “we won't be able to defend the President from this baseless Impeachment WITCH HUNT.”"
Politico


There is absolutely nothing wrong with fundraising appeals during campaigns. In no way is that bribery. Your ignorance of our system is extreme.

As well, Mueller made it clear he did not exonerate Trump for obstruction of justice. He just didn't indict a sitting president.

It is not the job of a prosecutor to exonerate. The job is to investigate criminal behavior, of which there was none.

Maybe you prefer Mueller's exact words instead of my non legal exonerate:

Nadler: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice? Is that correct?

MUELLER: That is correct."

Exactly. The President DID NOT commit obstruction of justice. That was the only conclusion he could come to, because it was the truth.

Dozens of Republicans are sitting in on the hearings yet several Republicans, some of those who had already been attending, obstructed justice by staging an illegal sit-in - with their electronic devices with them against the rules.
And they have every right to do so. This is not a one-party ruled government - yet - as much as the Socialists would like to be. If they want to impeach the President, then they have to engage all members of Congress in that effort.

There are protocols and laws not being followed by the Republicans.
What laws? Another lie. Can you ever top with the lying, or does it come so easily to you that you don't even know you are doing it?

Thar says something to the effect in another thread, that it is all incredible and very sad what is happening to America and all its people, and I agree.
It is sad that some many people are infected with anger, bitterness, and hate simply because they lost an election.

Oh. Gawd. Get over the "lost the election bit". A lot of water over the bridge since then.
I could ask the same of you and all the Trump haters. You lost an election. Get over it, instead of engaging is the subversive action of trying to overthrow a duly elected President.

It's almost like a plague spreading through society, infecting those with weak immune systems (in this case, weak minds), causing rage, illogical thinking, and hatred. Early on, after the election, whenever I would ask people why they hated Trump so much, no one could give an answer. The only thing they could say was that Hillary was supposed to win. And because she didn't, they hated Trump and actively looked for reasons to do so.

There seems to be a concerted effort to shut down the voice of the people (and don't give me that crap about popular vote. Our system has NEVER elected a President by popular vote. It isn't designed that way).

The same thing seems to be happening in other countries as well, such as the Brexit vote. The people voted, but the globalist forces want to revoke the will of the voters. Everywhere people are standing up against power, they are being attacked (Hong Kong is another). And weak-minded people nod their heads in agreement with having their wills subjugated, like good little sheep.

It's an infection. We need to give it a name. Let's call it "dumb-ass syndrome"...Whistle



You are right about the hatred around for several years that has been growing steadily through infection since about 2015 when given the stamp of approval. Too many people for too few resources, war causing refugees - and with loss of land through climate change there will a lot more before too long. Canada just had its nastiest election ever but thank goodness Canadians are not infected with hatred. Rotflmao. This from a Canadian who espouses nothing but hate for our President? You are hilarious!
They just kicked out an alt-right party that stood for hatred and were following Trump's methods/white nationalism. Not one seat in parliament with the leader losing his seat.

What happens in Canada is your business. I don't mettle in it. If only you could bring yourself to be as generous. But I don't think that's possible for you.
BobShilling
Posted: Saturday, November 2, 2019 1:37:31 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,448
Neurons: 7,871
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
Hope123 wrote:
Maybe you prefer Mueller's exact words instead of my non legal exonerate:

Nadler: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice? Is that correct?

MUELLER: That is correct."

[quote=FounDit]Exactly. The President DID NOT commit obstruction of justice. That was the only conclusion he could come to, because it was the truth.
[/color]



Mueller confirmed that report did not conclude that Trump did not commit obstruction of justice?
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, November 2, 2019 8:18:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,681
Neurons: 65,448
BobShilling wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
Maybe you prefer Mueller's exact words instead of my non legal exonerate:

Nadler: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice? Is that correct?

MUELLER: That is correct."

[quote=FounDit]Exactly. The President DID NOT commit obstruction of justice. That was the only conclusion he could come to, because it was the truth.
[/color]



Mueller confirmed that report did not conclude that Trump did not commit obstruction of justice?

Exactly. Mueller confirmed the report did not conclude obstruction of justice because obstruction of justice didn't happen.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:13:26 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,161
Neurons: 52,392
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
FD, your hatred of my facts is showing.

Mueller did NOT conclude that obstruction of justice did NOT happen. Two negatives make a positive. If he had concluded it did not happen he would have said "I concluded that it did not happen".

In fact he found several instances where it might have happened but since he could not indict a sitting president because the proper way to handle that is through impeachment, he left it for Congress to decide - and that is exactly what they are doing.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/opinion/robert-mueller-trump-obstruction.html

:::::

You are repeating untrue allegations and insinuations about Hunter Biden who was never under investigation. It was not even being actively pursued at the time in question. European countries and international bodies had accused Shokin of FAILING TO PURSUE CORRUPTION, including in the Burisma case, (why the money was held up under Obama) and wanted him fired. Joe did brag about getting him fired but he didn't do it for personal reasons. Hunter was cleared of conflict of interest as a private citizen and Joe did NOT commit corruption.

I thought you were more sophisticated than to believe everything Trump tells his base as he tries to discredit his opponent. He must be scared of Joe.


https://www.axios.com/joe-hunter-biden-ukraine-corruption-trump-1b031c30-3173-4a45-a6a7-2e551759063c.html

::::

As a Canadian I seem to know more about what goes on in the States than you do.

https://apnews.com/a089ddade65f42978c45147aa4ec2dca

Republicans intentionally took their electronic devices into the secure area, violating congressional rules and the oath they take to gain access to classified information. Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF, is a secure room where members can hear classified information.

:::

https://www.justsecurity.org/66767/exclusive-white-house-ignored-pentagon-warning-on-ukraine-funding/

"In late July, the Pentagon also alerted the White House that if the funding wasn’t released in time, the Pentagon would be at risk of violating the Impoundment Control Act, which punishes the executive branch when it doesn’t spend money that Congress has appropriated, the sources said." It was in the national security interests of the US that the money should be resumed as the Ukraine had taken steps to decrease corruption with the new prosecutor.

It was only when forced because Congress was growing irate and the fight over the whistleblower complaint was about to break into the open, that Trump finally released the money.

Trump did not merely ask for investigation into corruption - did you not read the words he uttered in the photo above where he insinuated Biden into the picture?

Once he realized the wrong doing, the lawyer Eisenberg moved the call to a highly classified server and access was restricted to it - unusual for calls to foreign leaders.

Saying nothing untoward happened is a ridiculous argument. Just asking is the illegal act - the outcome is not important. Guy who failed to rob the bank because he got caught is still a bank robber.The offence is not obtaining dirt on a political opponent - the offence is using the power of the presidency - see photo next post.

The men I mentioned who are testifying are not Trump haters. You can't just dismiss their testimony like that.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-transcript-ukraine-what-to-know-about-the-secret-computer-system-in-white-house-presidents-calls/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-ukraine-call-zelensky-transcript-server-vindman-a9178896.html

:::::

I have never hated anybody before but according to MW dictionary hate is defined as "extreme dislike or disgust". So, yeah, along with millions in the world, I'm guilty there in hating Trump. But it is of one man and for good reasons for what he says and does and because he cannot be ignored because of his power to affect us all.

However, the only place I express that disgust is here. And I do it civilly with facts. I'm not out in the streets telling people to "go back where they came from". I'm sure that if Canada had a Prime Minister powerful enough to affect your country, you'd be screaming blue murder about him.

Anyhow, refuting your incorrect or lack of information and the way you manage to overlook key issues to let Trump off the hook is getting tiresome and probably nobody else is still reading. So hope you are having a good weekend. We are.
Hope123
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:54:22 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,161
Neurons: 52,392
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada


[image not available]


BobShilling
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 4:12:22 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,448
Neurons: 7,871
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
FounDit wrote:


Mueller confirmed the report did not conclude obstruction of justice because obstruction of justice didn't happen.


The words in bold report a fact.
The words underlined report your opinion.
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 9:30:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,681
Neurons: 65,448
BobShilling wrote:
FounDit wrote:


Mueller confirmed the report did not conclude obstruction of justice because obstruction of justice didn't happen.


The words in bold report a fact.
The words underlined report your opinion.


No. If there was evidence that obstruction of justice had occurred, the report would have concluded that. Since it did not happen, it is a fact, because there was no evidence of obstruction.
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 10:05:29 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,681
Neurons: 65,448
Hope123 wrote:
FD, your hatred of my facts is showing.
I dispute your opinions, I do not hate facts.

Mueller did NOT conclude that obstruction of justice did NOT happen. Two negatives make a positive. If he had concluded it did not happen he would have said "I concluded that it did not happen".
No. Two negatives do not make this assertion a positive except in the minds of haters. There was no charge of obstruction because there was no obstruction. Mueller was permitted to complete his investigatory witch-hunt to its end.

In fact he found several instances where it might have happened but since he could not indict a sitting president because the proper way to handle that is through impeachment, he left it for Congress to decide - and that is exactly what they are doing.
"Might" is not evidence. If a bullfrog had wings, he "might" not bump his butt every time he jumps, but he doesn't. And Congress is handling impeachment, and failing because there is nothing on which to impeach.

Besides that, impeachment is nothing more than accusations, similar to charging someone with a crime. It then has to be proven, which it will not be, because no crime has been committed. There isn't even a crime to investigate. The House is simply looking for something to fault the President with. This will fail as every other stupid idea for removing him has failed.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/opinion/robert-mueller-trump-obstruction.html
Using The New York Times as a valid source for opinion on the President is a joke.

:::::

You are repeating untrue allegations and insinuations about Hunter Biden who was never under investigation. It was not even being actively pursued at the time in question. European countries and international bodies had accused Shokin of FAILING TO PURSUE CORRUPTION, including in the Burisma case, (why the money was held up under Obama) and wanted him fired. Joe did brag about getting him fired but he didn't do it for personal reasons. Of course he did, because the prosecutor wasn't fired UNTIL he began investigating the corruption that would lead to Hunter.
Hunter was cleared of conflict of interest as a private citizen and Joe did NOT commit corruption.
Right. He committed extortion. He and Obama extorted the Ukrainians.

I thought you were more sophisticated than to believe everything Trump tells his base as he tries to discredit his opponent. He must be scared of Joe.
Scared of Joe? The man who doesn't know where he is half the time? ROTFLMAO.

https://www.axios.com/joe-hunter-biden-ukraine-corruption-trump-1b031c30-3173-4a45-a6a7-2e551759063c.html
Another joke source reference. Why not use the Democrat Party itself as your source?
::::

As a Canadian I seem to know more about what goes on in the States than you do.

https://apnews.com/a089ddade65f42978c45147aa4ec2dca
Stop, please! My sides are hurting from laughing!

Republicans intentionally took their electronic devices into the secure area, violating congressional rules and the oath they take to gain access to classified information. Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF, is a secure room where members can hear classified information.
Yeah, we all wonder what the Dems are hiding when they hold their secret meetings with public scrutiny.

:::

https://www.justsecurity.org/66767/exclusive-white-house-ignored-pentagon-warning-on-ukraine-funding/

"In late July, the Pentagon also alerted the White House that if the funding wasn’t released in time, the Pentagon would be at risk of violating the Impoundment Control Act, which punishes the executive branch when it doesn’t spend money that Congress has appropriated, the sources said." It was in the national security interests of the US that the money should be resumed as the Ukraine had taken steps to decrease corruption with the new prosecutor.

It was only when forced because Congress was growing irate and the fight over the whistleblower complaint was about to break into the open, that Trump finally released the money.

Trump did not merely ask for investigation into corruption - did you not read the words he uttered in the photo above where he insinuated Biden into the picture?

Once he realized the wrong doing, the lawyer Eisenberg moved the call to a highly classified server and access was restricted to it - unusual for calls to foreign leaders.

Saying nothing untoward happened is a ridiculous argument. Just asking is the illegal act - the outcome is not important. Guy who failed to rob the bank because he got caught is still a bank robber.The offence is not obtaining dirt on a political opponent - the offence is using the power of the presidency - see photo next post.

The men I mentioned who are testifying are not Trump haters. You can't just dismiss their testimony like that.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-transcript-ukraine-what-to-know-about-the-secret-computer-system-in-white-house-presidents-calls/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-ukraine-call-zelensky-transcript-server-vindman-a9178896.html
Yada-yada...we all hate Trump - right.
:::::

I have never hated anybody before but according to MW dictionary hate is defined as "extreme dislike or disgust". So, yeah, along with millions in the world, I'm guilty there in hating Trump. But it is of one man and for good reasons for what he says and does and because he cannot be ignored because of his power to affect us all.
Why would you want to live in hate? That seems a very foolish thing to desire. Wouldn't it be better to live in a peaceful state of mind, using logic and reason as guides. But whatever gives you pleasure...

However, the only place I express that disgust is here. And I do it civilly with facts. Bullshit. You use distortions, half-truths, and rather than think for yourself, you rely on biased new outlets, just as you have done here.
I'm not out in the streets telling people to "go back where they came from". Neither is Trump unless they are breaking the law and trying to enter our country illegally. If they are doing that, he and all the rest of us have every right to demand that.
I'm sure that if Canada had a Prime Minister powerful enough to affect your country, you'd be screaming blue murder about him.
Why would I be against improving Canada, and by extension, neighboring countries? Only a fool would be against that.

Anyhow, refuting your incorrect or lack of information and the way you manage to overlook key issues to let Trump off the hook is getting tiresome and probably nobody else is still reading. So hope you are having a good weekend. We are.
I'm hoping everyone has given up on reading your distortions, but I doubt it. Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) is still very active. Once people latch onto anger, bitterness and hatred, it's hard for them to let it go. I'm glad I don't live there.

But thanks for the well-wishes. I, too, am having a great weekend. Glad to hear yours is going well, too.

Hope123
Posted: Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:00:32 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,161
Neurons: 52,392
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Don't worry about the disgust for Trump I express while I'm writing on this forum - I'm doing just fine. It does not affect my emotional well-being. At least my head is out of the sand.

My opinions were all backed up by facts from media sources which may be slightly left of centre for choice of topics but are high for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and zero failed fact checks. You might do some media bias fact checking before summarily dismissing all those facts I presented but I know your mind is locked in to a specific view and you either won't bother to check factual accuracy or believe it if you were to do so.

BTW - There are many more sources from various countries all saying the same things as on the links I posted.

You gave not one source to prove one single one of your assertions - other than your busted gut.Whistle


Of course Joe Biden bragged he got a prosecutor, Shokin, fired because Shokin was not looking into the corruption of politicians. Not the company Hunter worked for. The timeline doen't even fit. That accusation about Hunter was debunked at the time.

Biden with instructions from the American government i.e. Obama, European diplomats, the International Monetary Fund and other international organizations as well as Civil society organizations in Ukraine were pressing for Shokin's resignation because he was NOT doing his job.

Yes, I know impeachment is only accusations and the government will be the judge and jury in the trial. He may not be removed just as Clinton and Johnson weren't and of course Nixon resigned first - only time will tell as it probably won't make it through the Republican controlled senate, although public hearings bringing out the facts instead of in dribs and drabs may change the dynamics. And only time will tell if there will be criminal charges for other offences when he leaves office. I just hope the Democrats are as tenacious with their investigations as the Republicans were against Bill and Hillary Clinton over the years.

Since more damaging facts are coming out every day I'm sure they will eventually get to the bottom of all the subterfuge, make some decisions, and get on with the business of America.
LogicDefined
Posted: Monday, November 4, 2019 6:45:29 PM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 1/22/2015
Posts: 23
Neurons: 35,276
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
taurine wrote:
Oscar D. Grouch wrote:
LogicDefined wrote:
Yours and my enemies will do ANYTHING to stop Trump from carrying out his plans to make America great, again.


Great again? Compared to what?

This implies something has been lost. What have you lost?

What would you like to return to?



The sun scarce up risen,
Shot parallel to the earth his dewy ray,
Discovering in wide landscape all the east
Of paradise, and Eden's happy plains.

-Milton.


little donny has been quietly stripping down years worth of environmental regulations for the benefit of large polluting corporations. Down with the clean air act! Down with the clean water act! Protecting endangered species and biodiversity? Who needs it? Poisoned air? Poisoned water? Poisoned food? Is that your version of "paradise?" The Earth is the only home our species has. Is that the world you want to leave to your children and future generations?

Oh, lets not forget global warming! A world without ice will be nice and toasty. Average global temperatures are predicted to be ~ 30°F higher. Sea level is predicted to rise by 200 ft. Kiss New York, LA, Florida, San Diego and many other cities around the world goodbye! Much of the US will be as hot as Death Valley. Crops will fail. Millions will die. Welcome to "paradise." An avoidable tragedy if only we all took action.

The oceans have already absorbed so much CO2 that they're acidifying. For example, shellfish farmers in Washington State and other locations can no longer use the natural sea water for raising young oysters and other shellfish because it's so acidic, it dissolves the animal's shells and they die. Global warming is real and it's happening right now.

little donny thinks it's all a conspiracy though. Just like the Laws of Thermodynamics, it'll be an undeniable reality that'll come to bite us all in the ass.



I am sorry, but when you begin pontificating on the global warming hoax, my eyes begin to glaze over and my stress begins to rise. If there is a "global warming", it is God's doing. And when He is behind things, I don't worry.
FounDit
Posted: Monday, November 4, 2019 10:40:58 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,681
Neurons: 65,448
Here, LD, let me help you with your stress level.

Explosion in Antarctic sea ice levels may cause another ice age

Upside-down "rivers" of warm ocean water may be one of the causes of Antarctica's ice shelves breaking up, leading to a rise in sea levels. But a new study suggests an increase in sea ice may lead to a much more devastating change in the Earth's climate — another ice age. It is odd, however, that they continue to study when we're told "the science is settled".

Using computer simulations, the research suggests that an increase in sea ice could significantly alter the circulation of the ocean, ultimately leading to a reverse greenhouse effect as carbon dioxide levels in the ocean increase and levels in the air decrease.

“One key question in the field is still what caused the Earth to periodically cycle in and out of ice ages,” University of Chicago professor and the study's co-author, Malte Jansen, said in a statement. “We are pretty confident that the carbon balance between the atmosphere and ocean must have changed, but we don’t quite know how or why."

A new study by UChicago scientists show how an increase in Antarctic sea ice could trigger a chain of events leading to an ice age.

The last major ice age ended at the end of the Pleistocene era, about 2.5 million years ago, as glaciers have periodically grown and then gotten smaller. Researchers believe that changes to the Earth's orbit may be partly responsible for some of the Earth's cooling, but additional factors have likely played a part, Jensen added.

“The most plausible explanation is that there was some change in how carbon was divided between the atmosphere and the ocean,” Jansen continued. “There’s no shortage of ideas about how this happens, but it’s not quite clear how they all fit together.”

Researchers also believe a mini-ice age may have occurred roughly 12,800 years ago. It likely stems from an asteroid impact that "rocked the Northern Hemisphere" and led to the Younger Dryas climate event.

Jansen pointed out that the Southern Ocean around Antarctica "plays a key role in ocean circulation" due to the deep waters in the region, leading it to have "outsize[d] consequences."

“What this suggests is that it’s a feedback loop,” said the study's lead author, Alice Marzocchi. “As the temperature drops, less carbon is released into the atmosphere, which triggers more cooling.”

“What surprised me is how much of this increased storage can be attributed to physical changes alone, with Antarctic sea-ice cover being the key player,” Marzocchi added, noting that future study of the ocean and the role it plays in the carbon cycle can help simulate "future environmental change.”

The research has been published in the scientific journal Nature Geoscience.

See? Nothing to worry about.


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