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USA elections 2020 Options
Dynamina
Posted: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 11:21:44 AM
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In the lead-up to the USA presidential election, we usually see several television 'debates' between the Democratic and the Republican candidates.

If Trump is the Republican candidate don't expect him to follow this 'tradition'.

He will not participate in the 2020 debates. He doesn't share the limelight with 'losers'.

FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, June 5, 2019 1:58:46 PM

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Dynamina wrote:

In the lead-up to the USA presidential election, we usually see several television 'debates' between the Democratic and the Republican candidates.

If Trump is the Republican candidate don't expect him to follow this 'tradition'.

He will not participate in the 2020 debates. He doesn't share the limelight with 'losers'.



Really? Did you see the 2016 contest? He shared the stage with 16 losers. This time around, I don't expect anyone to be able to challenge him. He will win in a landslide victory.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, June 6, 2019 1:09:37 AM

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Debates are dumb anyhow.

Breaking: No deal reached during U.S.-Mexico meeting in White House, per NBC

Mexico: no deal
China: no deal
North Korea: no deal
Iran: no deal
Venezuela: no deal
new NAFTA: no deal
trade with EU: no deal
trade with Japan: no deal
immigration: no deal
infrastructure: no deal

No sense any country making any deal with the US because a deal means nothing to him. He just unilaterally throws out tariffs that have nothing to do with trade using national security factor against his no-longer allies.

Farmers in US with not enough socialism $ are losing farms, even committing suicide; stats say tax cut helped only wealthy; taxpayers on hook for tariffs, G20 alienated.........All those crowds of admirers in London, England. Whistle

But even with that dismal record, I expect DJT will win. He'll have gerrymandering and foreign interference to help him, and indicated before he would not go quietly even if he loses. US is stuck with him for what - maybe thirty years - and then he'll appoint Ivanka. Whistle

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Y111
Posted: Thursday, June 6, 2019 2:59:09 AM
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Everything ends. Why should democracy be an exception? It comes and goes, as history shows us. Take ancient Rome for example. It evolved from a republic to an empire, even though some people didn't like the change. They couldn't stop the process.
March Hare
Posted: Thursday, June 6, 2019 3:29:11 AM

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Y111 wrote:
Everything ends. Why should democracy be an exception? It comes and goes, as history shows us. Take ancient Rome for example. It evolved from a republic to an empire, even though some people didn't like the change. They couldn't stop the process.


Why not discard democracy, you ask. Here's one reason: it has been proven throughout history that a government can only rule undemocratically through violent suppression and prosecution of any who even consider opposing them. In addition, undemocratic governments tend to create wars in order to distract their people and keep them under control. Therefore, if the future you want is one of war and oppression, then sure, get rid of democracy. Otherwise, it might not be the best of ideas.
Y111
Posted: Thursday, June 6, 2019 5:06:07 AM
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March Hare wrote:
Why not discard democracy, you ask.

No, I didn't ask that. My point is that neither you nor me can discard or not discard it. This change is a process that no individual can control. Even though Caesar was killed, it didn't prevent Rome from turning into an empire.

Yes, you can decide for yourself whether you want democracy, but you can't decide for an entire nation. If for some reason people don't care, it will pass away, whether you like it or not.
March Hare
Posted: Thursday, June 6, 2019 5:50:10 AM

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Y111 wrote:
March Hare wrote:
Why not discard democracy, you ask.

No, I didn't ask that. My point is that neither you nor me can discard or not discard it. This change is a process that no individual can control. Even though Caesar was killed, it didn't prevent Rome from turning into an empire.

Yes, you can decide for yourself whether you want democracy, but you can't decide for an entire nation. If for some reason people don't care, it will pass away, whether you like it or not.


Many people don't care because they are not aware that democracy remains, for now, the least unpleasant form of government we know. Raising awareness may therefore help. If everyone who cares sits by passively while potential tyrants try to usurp power, democracy is indeed lost. We need to speak up.
Adyl Mouhei
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 5:16:57 AM

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The age group of what will then be people in the 18- to the 45-year-old bracket is expected to represent just under 40 percent of the United States' eligible voters in 2020. It is expected that more than 30 percent of eligible American voters will be nonwhite.[4]

A bipartisan report indicates that changes in voter demographics since the 2016 election could impact the results of the 2020 election. African Americans, Hispanics, Asians, and other ethnic minorities, as well as "whites with a college degree", are expected to all increase their percentage of national eligible voters by 2020, while "whites without a college degree" will decrease. This shift is potentially an advantage for the Democratic nominee; however, due to geographical differences, this could still lead to President Trump (or a different Republican nominee) winning the Electoral College while still losing the popular vote, possibly by an even larger margin than in 2016.[5]

Additionally, Washington, D.C., may lower its voting age from 18 to 16. The legislation was introduced by city councilman Charles Allen in April 2018, with a public hearing in June, and a vote by the end of the year. Unlike other cities with a voting age of 16 such as Berkeley, California, this would allow 16- and 17-year-olds to vote for president of the United States for the first time in 2020. Allen said that he was inspired by the high school students that participated in the March for Our Lives, which occurred at the capital in March 2018
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 5:59:48 AM
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Hope123
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:27:50 AM

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Interesting article about USA and CDN elections. Since this is a thread about US election I pasted only the US part.

"US TV debates just another reality show". Heather Mallick - TorStar.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2019/07/30/democrats-tv-debates-just-another-reality-show.html

"This week’s Democratic Party TV debates are something of an argument against holding such events at all. Americans need urgency, not 10 candidates talking over each other on Tuesday and another 10 on Wednesday, some of them more or less people who wandered in off the street...The Democrats are panicking and it shows. The debates are a reality show, an incoherent meme-seeking display that represents a central problem: Americans have too much choice.

“I don’t want more choice, I want nicer things,” a comedian once wailed, and I think of this line often. Shopping is Americans’ favourite pastime and what did it get them? A shelf of try-harders, as opposed to a new Obama.

It is peculiar and sad that they can’t find another Obama. Elizabeth Warren, smart, relatable and fierce, is easily the best candidate but I cannot believe Americans will elect a woman. Dislike of women — by both women and men — runs too deep in human history to be overcome. This frantic era will not permit the alteration.

The courageous Pete Buttigieg is too bookish, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are sadly deteriorating men of a bygone era, and the rest have made little impression. In this complicated world, whoever speaks loudest with the most cartoonishly simple message on Tuesday and Wednesday will be declared a winner by a cartoonishly credulous basket of media...But it is unfair to even put these people, most of them sincere, through this electoral sieve. Any one of these candidates would be a better president than Trump.

They are up against a mean, filthy-minded bigot whose mind is clearly deteriorating. He’s a joke, one that American democracy may not survive. Happily, Trump will not win re-election — though it’s hard to find anyone who agrees with me — but it’s doubtful he will leave without a war, possibly of a nuclear nature.

How could Trump walk offstage without declaring the biggest war in the history of wars? Is there anything in him or his terrified Republican chorus that would resist the urge? A childish nation elected this large child and handed him the toys."



The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Absinthius
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 10:36:38 AM

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I hope that prediction is wrong..

Look, how about this? Let's pretend we've had the row and I've won. See? It saves a lot of effort.
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 11:05:25 AM

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Absinthius wrote:
I hope that prediction is wrong..


It is.

The Democrat Party is imploding from insanity fueled by hatred. The Party has become the largest hate group in the country.
They hate the Founding;
they hate the Constitution;
they hate the American culture;
they hate the language;
they hate the dominate ethnic group;
they hate the President;
they hate all who support him;
they hate the Superpower status of the U.S.;
they hate the border;
they hate those who defend the border;
they hate the tax system;
they hate the medical system;
Apparently, even the very existence of the country annoys them.
Fortunately, a political party of hate cannot long endure.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 11:15:51 AM
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FounDit wrote:



They hate the Founding;
they hate the Constitution;
they hate the American culture;
they hate the language;
they hate the dominate ethnic group;[...]
they hate the border;
they hate those who defend the border;[...]
Apparently, even the very existence of the country annoys them.

Have you any evidence for any of these statements?
FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 2:31:30 PM

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BobShilling wrote:
FounDit wrote:



They hate the Founding;
they hate the Constitution;
they hate the American culture;
they hate the language;
they hate the dominate ethnic group;[...]
they hate the border;
they hate those who defend the border;[...]
Apparently, even the very existence of the country annoys them.

Have you any evidence for any of these statements?


Sure:

CNN, MSNBC, PBS, The View, Slate, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Morning Joe, Jerry Nadler, Nance Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, AOC, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Ayanna Pressley, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Swalwell, James Clapper, John Brennen, James Comey, … just about everyone in Washington, D. C. who is a member of the Democrat Party, a whole lot of Republicans too, and far too many more to mention here. All you have to do is tune in and listen, read Facebook and twitter, or watch the Democrat debate that took place last night, or watch the one tonight.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
BobShilling
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 3:05:00 PM
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"All fur coat and no knickers" as we say in Britain.

A fine-looking list of names of people and organisations, and not a single concrete shred of evidence.

I saw no sign of anyone in the debate saying or showing that:


They hate the Founding;
they hate the Constitution;
they hate the American culture;
they hate the language;
they hate the dominate ethnic group;[...]
they hate the border;
they hate those who defend the border;[...]
Apparently, even the very existence of the country annoys them.

If I blinked when any of them said or showed any of these things, perhaps you could quote me their words.
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:50:35 AM

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This is hate. Incredible and real hate over a difference in politics!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-shop-billboard-mocks-the-squad-calling-four-congresswomen-idiots/

All kinds of supportive posts on gun shop owner's Facebook page. The four women have had death threats after Trump attacked them on Twitter and in other media.


This gunman said he would kill Illhan Omar.
"I’ll put a bullet in her f***ing skull."

Quote of a man charged with threatening to murder an elected official:
.
Law enforcement found over 1,000 rounds of ammo and multiple illegal firearms in his home.





The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Hope123
Posted: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:55:59 AM

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BobShilling wrote:
"All fur coat and no knickers" as we say in Britain.











The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Oscar D. Grouch
Posted: Thursday, August 1, 2019 4:22:28 AM

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FounDit wrote:
Fortunately, a political party of hate cannot long endure.


Yes, hate will be little donny's downfall. Someone may say "Enough is enough."
FounDit
Posted: Thursday, August 1, 2019 8:01:50 PM

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BobShilling wrote:
"All fur coat and no knickers" as we say in Britain.

A fine-looking list of names of people and organisations, and not a single concrete shred of evidence.

I saw no sign of anyone in the debate saying or showing that:

I’m not surprised you don’t see it. There are none so blind as those who will not see. But that’s okay. Whether you see it or not doesn’t really matter. What matters is whether the majority of us who live here see it…and we do. With each passing day, more and more are seeing it.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
BobShilling
Posted: Thursday, August 1, 2019 9:19:46 PM
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FounDit wrote:
I’m not surprised you don’t see it. There are none so blind as those who will not see. But that’s okay. Whether you see it or not doesn’t really matter. What matters is whether the majority of us who live here see it…and we do. With each passing day, more and more are seeing it.


That just about sums it up. You claim it, and that's it. No evidence required.

I am reminded of what someone said about a technique he claimed was used by the Jews:

[...] in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying
.

Hitler, A (1925) Mein Kampf, (English translation: Murphy, J (1959))


... and of words used about that man

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.

Langer W (1943) A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler

... and of what someone said about the English:

The fundamental English leadership secret lies not so much in particularly outstanding intelligence. but rather in a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when you lie, one should lie thoroughly , and stick to your lie. They maintain their lies, even at the risk of making themselves ridiculous.

Goebbels, J (1941) Die Zeit ohne Beispiel, (English translation: Shilling, B (2019))


... and of facts without evidence (I prefer the word 'lies') spouted by Donald Trump.


FounDit
Posted: Thursday, August 1, 2019 11:30:26 PM

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Ah, I see you went straight for the Hitler and Goebbels insults. R-i-g-h-t.

But then you ultimately admitted that I presented you with facts. Facts that your refuse to accept unless I provide "evidence" for the facts. Circular reasoning and redundant. No wonder you are having trouble seeing.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 1:34:34 AM

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You see, Bob, the Democrats spew hatred because they attack FounDit's Saviour, calling out Trump for his lies, hatred, and racism. See link.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/16/house-democrats-condemn-trump-attacks-on-congresswomen-as-racist.html

A list of people is not a list of concrete examples of hatred against the constitution etc. It is a list of anyone or media who does not support Trump, especially top Democrats. FD himself hates all Democrats and Liberals and Socialists and Leftists. From various rants on the Forum it is easy to see that he blames them for every wrong in the world. Facts without evidence are just an opinion - an opinion which FD cannot verify because it is not true.

Only those who look objectively can see that Trump is not Hitler, and there are no death camps, but that it took Hitler ten plus years to develop the mood of the German people little by little against the Jews till he got to that stage. But objective people can see that the tactics Trump is using are the same. The only reading Trump does is Adolf Hitler's speeches and he keeps them on his golden night stand, so it is no wonder there is a similarity between what is happening in the US now and what happened in the twenties and thirties in Germany.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/394130-schmidt-trumps-only-affinity-for-reading-anything-were-the-adolf-hitler

(As an aside - 2/3 of the American millennials questioned recently in a poll did not know what Auschwitz is and 22% had not heard of the Holocaust. 11% of adults had not heard of it either. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/12/two-thirds-of-millennials-dont-know-what-auschwitz-is-according-to-study-of-fading-holocaust-knowledge/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1f704aacaa17 )

I have mentioned the creepy comparisons of what is developing in the US several times on here but as a famous person once said "There are three classes of people: those who see; those who see when they are shown; those who do not see".

A lot of Americans do see what is happening and are appalled. They say so every day on Twitter.

You Bob, are definitely one who sees.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
BobShilling
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 3:02:29 AM
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Quote:
FounDit wrote:
Ah, I see you went straight for the Hitler and Goebbels insults.

With distortion of the truth on the scale we have been seeing in recent years from Trump and many of his supporters, this unfortunately seemed appropriate.

Quote:
But then you ultimately admitted that I presented you with facts. Facts that your refuse to accept unless I provide "evidence" for the facts.

Given your long history of using any method you can to evade responding directly to issues raised, this was clearly a slip on my part. Note that in my first response you your list of unsubstantiated claims, for which you still have not provided one shred of evidence,I called them 'statements'.

Quote:
Circular reasoning and redundant. No wonder you are having trouble seeing.

There was no circular reasoning, merely an inappropriate use of one word.

Now that we have got that out of the way, it remains true that you made a list of unsubstantiated claims. So, back to the question I asked in that post: Have you any evidence for any of these statements?
Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 3:07:54 AM

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FounDit wrote:
Ah, I see you went straight for the Hitler and Goebbels insults. R-i-g-h-t.

But then you ultimately admitted that I presented you with facts. Facts that your refuse to accept unless I provide "evidence" for the facts. Circular reasoning and redundant. No wonder you are having trouble seeing.


At no point did bobshilling say you presented us with facts:

Quote:

Have you any evidence for any of these statements?
[...]
A fine-looking list of names of people and organisations, and not a single concrete shred of evidence.
[...]
That just about sums it up. You claim it, and that's it. No evidence required.


It's not circular reasoning if someone asks if you have evidence to back up your opinions. The only thing that is circular is you claiming your opinions are facts because you say they are.
BobShilling
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 3:13:52 AM
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Hope123 wrote:

The only reading Trump does is Adolf Hitler's speeches and he keeps them on his golden night stand,


Before FD tries to use that as a sidetrack to move away from my request for evidence, I'll say clearly and openly that I regard that statement as an unsubstantiated claim.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 10:36:17 AM

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BobShilling wrote:
Hope123 wrote:

The only reading Trump does is Adolf Hitler's speeches and he keeps them on his golden night stand,


Before FD tries to use that as a sidetrack to move away from my request for evidence, I'll say clearly and openly that I regard that statement as an unsubstantiated claim.


You are correct that it is still an allegation said on TV in public but I was thinking it was Trump's right hand man who said it and he would know but it wasn't. I got my Stephens mixed up.

Edited: I did some checking. Apparently it was Trump's ex wife Ivana who told her lawyer that the book "My New Order", Hitler's speeches, was given to him and he kept it near his bedside. She would know but might have an agenda but what that might be, nobody knows. Trump at first said he didn't own it but later with Barbara Walters verified that he did get it as a gift but said he didn't read it. Since he lies a lot who knows if he read it or not. So half the statement is true.

You are not going to get any evidence, mainly because there isn't any proof that large groups of people all hate their whole country and everything it stands for. Even the few extreme Rightists who have done mass shootings do not do it for hatred of their country but believe his policies will help them and their country and have a deep aversion for anyone they think gets in their way.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
FounDit
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 11:30:07 AM

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Excellent! Hope verified the fact that "Democrats spew hatred", and we have all these posts that demonstrate that.

I know it can be hard to accept. I once voted Democrat, too, but learned better: #walkaway, check it out.


We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
BobShilling
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 11:36:05 AM
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FounDit wrote:
Excellent! Hope verified the fact that "Democrats spew hatred", and we have all these posts that demonstrate that.


Your normal evasion technique. Switch attention to someone else, Hope in this case, and we might not notice that you have still not offered one piece of evidence for any of the claims you made earlier.

I noticed.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 4:15:56 PM

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Ho, ho, ho. You made a joke, FD.

But seriously, you don't have any proof of your opinions because Dems don't hate their country - they are trying to save it. They cause less political violence from hatred than the Party of Trump (that used to be known as the Grand Old Party) and there are statistics to prove it.

I'll show you mine, after you show me yours. Angel

Why has violence increased in US and around the world?

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/whats_driving_political_violence_in_america

Group leadership
When it comes to violence, leadership matters. There are many, many studies—starting with Stanley Milgram’s classic electric-shock experiments—which show that people are much more likely to inflict pain on others when an authority figure tells them to. When leaders engage in violent rhetoric, so do their followers; when they urge calm, people do calm down. Research has documented that words do have an impact on both beliefs and behaviors.



As well as all his other methods of spreading his hatred during his campaign, and since ,Trump has Twitter. People are kicked off Twitter for saying less than Trump says every day in his nasty attacks on others, and especially on women of colour. He is even above Twitter law!

The mail bomber mentioned Donald Trump. The white supremacist coast guard mentioned Donald Trump. The synagogue shooter mentioned Donald Trump. The New Zealand terrorist mentioned Donald Trump. Even the mosque shooter in Canada mentioned Donald Trump. The KKK are Trump supporters and we all saw one of them kill a woman with a car in Charlottesville and he has been Indicted on Federal Hate Crime Charges. Trump refused to call out the white supremacists.

If only we could identify a pattern in all of these....


The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 2, 2019 5:22:40 PM

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#Walkaway is run by Party of Trump trolls and bots trying to talk Democrats into changing parties. Democrats are warning their members not to pay attention, that #Walkaway tweets are just spin and outright lies.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
FounDit
Posted: Saturday, August 3, 2019 11:53:08 AM

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I can't help but be amused by the fact that all of you are oblivious to the fact that you're making my point...




We should look to the past to learn from it, not destroy our future because of it — FounDit
BobShilling
Posted: Saturday, August 3, 2019 12:07:11 PM
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FounDit wrote:
I can't help but be amused by the fact that all of you are oblivious to the fact that you're making my point...


Could you point out where anyone has shown that

They hate the Founding;
they hate the Constitution;
they hate the American culture;
they hate the language;
they hate the dominate ethnic group;[...]
they hate the border;
they hate those who defend the border;[...]
Apparently, even the very existence of the country annoys them.


?


In addition, you said three days ago "The Democrat Party is imploding from insanity fueled by hatred. The Party has become the largest hate group in the country", and claimed that 'they' were guilty of the things I mentioned above, plus other things. Despite repeated requests, you still have provided no evidence for any of your claims.

I am not surprised.
Hope123
Posted: Saturday, August 3, 2019 1:33:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 8,925
Neurons: 51,153
Location: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
FounDit wrote:
I can't help but be amused by the fact that all of you are oblivious to the fact that you're making my point...


How you made your point and us giggling....







Another illogical unsubstantiated claim.

Your original unsubstantiated accusation was against the Democratic Party, supplemented by a further list, so it is literally impossible for posters to make your point when there are only a possible two Americans on this thread. Since you see hate everywhere it is not surprising you would think there is hatred on this thread.

Correction: you see hatred everywhere EXCEPT where it actually IS - in your president and his cult.

The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes/ears. It was their final, most essential command Orwell 1984
BobShilling
Posted: Sunday, August 4, 2019 4:13:17 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,420
Neurons: 7,616
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
I suspect this may end up like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyqnu6ywhR4

BobShilling
Posted: Monday, August 5, 2019 12:38:30 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,420
Neurons: 7,616
Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
I see that in the 36 hours since I last asked FD for evidence of the claims he made in this thread, FD has found time to trawl the internet for news of mockable behaviour by some Democratic Socialists and the apparent hypocrisy of Bernie Sanders.

It seems he has given up on any attempt to find evidence to support his claims here.
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