mailing list For webmasters
Welcome Guest
to fall out on high Options
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 6:31:33 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 1,063
Neurons: 5,239
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Hello!

Would anybody be so kind as to explain the underlined part to me? I do not understand it.

Through it all the planets continued to excercise good or evil influence over the human being, according as his fates might chance to fall out on high, a thing imbedded in the cult from its old Babylonian days.

This is an article about Mithraism.

Many thanks!
thar
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 7:01:39 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,772
Neurons: 92,489
I am not sure, but this is my best guess.

On High means in Heaven (or the place of God or the gods) - but if you are talking about the influence of the planets, then there is the more literal physical meaning of 'in the heavens' - in the night sky - in the same theme.

To fall (out) is to happen, the way things turn out


So I think this might mean

as his destiny might be set, in the heavens - by the influence of the planets (and therefore ultimately by the arbitrary will of the gods)

but I don't get the grammar here - it is a bit weird.
Sarrriesfan
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 7:18:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/2016
Posts: 2,051
Neurons: 13,204
Location: Luton, England, United Kingdom
I cannot add to Thars answer, but Kirill if you ever take a trip to London one of the lesser known sights to visit is the Mithraeum, an ancient temple to Mithras in the city of London under the Bloomberg building.

https://www.londonmithraeum.com

You have to book a time to visit, but it's free an quite and intresting light and sound exhibit.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 7:37:34 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 1,063
Neurons: 5,239
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
thar wrote:
I am not sure, but this is my best guess.

On High means in Heaven (or the place of God or the gods) - but if you are talking about the influence of the planets, then there is the more literal physical meaning of 'in the heavens' - in the night sky - in the same theme.

To fall (out) is to happen, the way things turn out


So I think this might mean

as his destiny might be set, in the heavens - by the influence of the planets (and therefore ultimately by the arbitrary will of the gods)

but I don't get the grammar here - it is a bit weird.


Thank you very much, Thar!
I didn't know "on high"... And also "to fall (out)" in non-literal sense I think I had seen only in more legal contexts like in "to fall under a definition" and the like. It's always refreshing to learn less earthly meanings of things Angel

This is a relatively old artcile, so I guess the grammar may be a little dated / old-fashioned, too.
Kirill Vorobyov
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 7:39:43 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/4/2016
Posts: 1,063
Neurons: 5,239
Location: Moscow, Moscow, Russia
Sarrriesfan wrote:
I cannot add to Thars answer, but Kirill if you ever take a trip to London one of the lesser known sights to visit is the Mithraeum, an ancient temple to Mithras in the city of London under the Bloomberg building.

https://www.londonmithraeum.com

You have to book a time to visit, but it's free an quite and intresting light and sound exhibit.


Thanks, Sarrr! It doesn't look like I am going any time soon, but I will keep in mind, for sure.
Romany
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 11:54:39 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,685
Neurons: 57,280
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Kirill -

Just to add to your knowledge of "to fall out" : -

It also means to have a disagreement with someone - usually it's different to just having a row with someone: if you have a falling out with someone it often ends up with the relationship ending; or at least ending for a while (they may get together again after some time has passed) e.g.

"I never shop In Tesco's anymore because I had a huge falling out with the local Manager."
"Jo and Jen have fallen out with each other: so much for the partnership which was going to last forever!"
"We'll work together until the end of the project - unless we manage to fall out with each other before then."

This is a usage not, I think, used in America.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 1:52:25 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,772
Neurons: 92,489
It is actually a really interesting word.

In terms of fates, you could think of it in the common meaning of fall in that your fate is cast (throw down the entrails, or the runes, or the dice, or whatever) and it falls as it may.

Or the meaning of happen as in 'what befalls someone'. I think most of the be- verbs have died out or feel old-fashioned or literary - beget, bedevil, betroth, belie, bequeath, besiege, bestow, berate, beset, bemoan - but you still have the common ones - become, behave, betray.

So if something befalls you, then the 'fall' is the event - but a bad one.
Quote:
From Middle English fallen, from Old English feallan (“to fall, fail, decay, die, attack”)


And then mix in a bit of Biblical sin - The Fall - and it is all pre-destined!

Quote:
*h₃elh₁-

to fall, to collapse
to destroy/be destroyed

Derived terms

Balto-Slavic:
Lithuanian: pulti (“to fall”)[2]
Germanic: (possibly) *fallaną[3][4]

Hellenic:
Ancient Greek: ἀπόλλυμι ((apóllūmi, “to destroy, kill”).)

Italic:
Latin: (possibly) aboleō (“to destroy”)

Unsorted formations:
Anatolian:
Hittite: (hu-ul-la-a-i, “he defeated, destroyed”)

Armenian:
Old Armenian: եղեռն (ełeṙn) - crime, evil deed
(archaic) calamity, catastrophe, disaster
(by extension) any massacre, slaughter

Celtic:
Brythonic:
Middle Breton: el-boet (“hunger”)
Breton: ol-buid (“food shortage”) [Breton fall = bad]
Old Irish: el-tes (“tepidity”) (possibly)

Balto-Slavic:
Russian: ломать (lomatʹ) (possibly from metathesis of Proto-Slavic *olmati)
Hellenic:
Ancient Greek: ὄλλυμι (óllumi, “to wreck, to destroy, to lose; to go to waste, to be ruined, to be lost”)
Ancient Greek: ὀλέκω (olékō, “to ruin, destroy, kill”)


Get the impression people expect bad things to happen when their fate 'falls out'? Whistle

In Iclandic falla is mostly about dying or stumbling and falling - you don't use it for falling asleep or waterfalls, or falling behind in your work.
But in modern German it seems much more neutral ' to happen' from what I can see.


papo_308
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 2:39:35 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/29/2012
Posts: 1,127
Neurons: 26,617
Location: Velké Meziříčí, Vysocina, Czech Republic
And another, scary, meaning of radioactive ashes or dust falling out of the sinister mushroom cloud - used rather as a noun - radioactive fallout.

I hope I'm not wrong.
thar
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 2:55:18 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 22,772
Neurons: 92,489
Yep - more bad things falling out of a mushroom cloud on high - enough to make the gods angry! Whistle

And more bad things.... (possibly you could call it a bit redundant - or a bit emphatic)



Interesting in the original German it was Der Untergang. (under-going).
NKM
Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 10:55:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 5,266
Neurons: 315,308
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
And yes, Romany, we Americans do indeed use "fall out with" and "a falling out" just as you described.

Romany
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 5:25:11 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,685
Neurons: 57,280
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Ah, thanks NK. I was specifically informed by an American poster a couple of years back that it was unknown in the USA. That's why I used "...not, I think, used.." as I didn't actually trust the source of this information. (But not enough to go and search it out for myself - so my bad, I guess!)

But while we're here: - the phrase "weighing in"? It's a very common BE expression, but I hadn't remembered hearing it from AE speakers until the last presidential campaign. It's now used to a rather unimaginative and repetitious degree by political commentators on every network.

Has it always been so commonly used - or is this just another of the buzz-word/phrases which has become one of the standard vocab. usages of the last 2 years? Along with "disgusting", "horrible", "fake" and dozens more?
NKM
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 11:54:04 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 5,266
Neurons: 315,308
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
"Weighing in" is certainly not new; it's been in use here for at least a few decades.

"Disgusting" and "horrible" have been around forever, and the word "fake" per se is not a recent coinage.

What is new is the ubiquitous and indiscriminate use of "fake" as an adjective. That's a phenomenon entirely attributable to Donald Trump's abuse of the word, especially in the ridiculously inappropriate phrase "fake news".

FounDit
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 12:26:12 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 14,432
Neurons: 68,660
NKM wrote:
"Weighing in" is certainly not new; it's been in use here for at least a few decades.

"Disgusting" and "horrible" have been around forever, and the word "fake" per se is not a recent coinage.

What is new is the ubiquitous and indiscriminate use of "fake" as an adjective. That's a phenomenon entirely attributable to Donald Trump's abuse of the word, especially in the ridiculously inappropriate phrase "fake news".



Yeah. Trump is the Rocky Balboa President.

Quote:

“Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!”
― Sylvester Stallone, Rocky Balboa

Trump takes the hits and keeps going, and winning, taking the rest of us along with him...Applause Applause Applause
Go Mr. President!
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 1:48:27 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,685
Neurons: 57,280
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
NK -

Sorry no: I didn't mean to give the impression that the words I mentioned had only recently appeared in AE. Even though I once saw an American president confident that he had coined the word 'fake'.

What I was referring to was the paucity of language which has occurred over the last couple of years. The repetitive use of the same three words (and far too many more); and of certain phrases like "weighing in" - have robbed them of any but the most vague general meaning.

And yes, thanks for the answer to my query...so, like us, you guys have always "weighed in"; it's just that the capacity to employ such words as "entered into the..." "joined in..." "directed her attention at..." "gave her opinion on", seems suddenly to have fled from the living memory of every TV anchor, commentator, discussion panelists et.al. and 'weighed in' is all that's left.
NKM
Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2018 7:42:51 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/2015
Posts: 5,266
Neurons: 315,308
Location: Corinth, New York, United States
Yeah, but on the other hand I seem to be hearing "like" (as a pointless spacer/interjection) a bit less often than last year.

Does that mean we're dealing with a zero-sum game?

Whistle
Romany
Posted: Friday, November 30, 2018 5:33:12 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 17,685
Neurons: 57,280
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Or perhaps blue-sky thinking?
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.