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"Nationalism"? Options
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, November 30, 2018 1:38:01 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
The US ambassador, along with the delegate of the Saudi and UAE Alliance, attended the Coast Guard ceremony taken place in Hadramawt province. However, the President of the Republic, the Vice President of the Republic, and the Prime Minister did not attend. Hahaha.
Why on earth does only the US ambassador still have the courage to walk across Yemen except the ambassadors of other countries?
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, December 9, 2018 3:15:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
progpen wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
progpen wrote:
"Humanitarian negotiation and political mediation are two different strands," said Griffiths, 67, a married father of two. "They need to be carried out by different people and they should not be integrated and ... will continue to be so, I'm sure, in Yemen."

Griffiths' insistence on this will doubtless see him butt heads with the Saudi-led coalition, which is simultaneously bombing Houthis, blocking sea and air aid routes and running its own large-scale humanitarian operation in Yemen.




In February 2018, United Nations Secretary‑General António Guterres appointed Martin Griffiths of the United Kingdom as his Special Envoy for Yemen. Mr. Griffiths brings extensive experience in conflict resolution, negotiation, mediation and humanitarian affairs, having worked with the UN and other International Organizations. He was also the founding Director of the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue in Geneva, where he specialized in developing political dialogue between governments and insurgents in a range of countries across Asia, Africa and Europe.


Thank you so much, progpen, for your quite excellent information.

However, do you think Mr Martin will be interested in discussing the case of South Yemen, which originally has been raised since 1994 after the former legeal president of People's Democratic Republic of Yemen announced the disengagement since the Yemeni Union was not as it was promised to be by the leader of the South and North Yemen?


With his history and experience, it is expected that he is working to get all parties to the table to talk. We would actually have to guess at reasons that he might not want to succeed. There is no indication that he is playing favorites or wants one side to win over the others.


I am wondering what is preventing the transfer of Yemeni dialogue and negotiation sessions from Sweden via live broadcast so that the Yemeni people, at least as stakeholders, can see the details of the dialogue and know who obstructs or impairs access to the peace agreement and bloodshed.
A cooperator
Posted: Monday, December 17, 2018 9:16:37 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
The Yemeni unity ended in 1994, but I tell you the US has not wanted the South Yemen to have its independence. So, the slaves, the Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates by force do not want it as well because their master does not want it. I understand that, but the world doesn't have only a strong country, the US. However, there are North Korea, Russia, Japan and China.
We almost all Southern Yemeni citizens are determined to get our country back, whatever the cost.

A cooperator
Posted: Monday, December 24, 2018 10:47:55 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Does the South Yemen - the case of an entire people since 1994 - not have the right to have its independence from the occupier the North Yemen? However, the terrorist, Houthies, who appeared just ago a two years has the right to control over Sana's. Is this what the US and UK see must be done? I am sorry to say we are determined to ignore that opinion, and I won't say the command since it is not entitled that a nation to occupy another one.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:40:59 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
progpen wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
progpen wrote:
"Humanitarian negotiation and political mediation are two different strands," said Griffiths, 67, a married father of two. "They need to be carried out by different people and they should not be integrated and ... will continue to be so, I'm sure, in Yemen."

Griffiths' insistence on this will doubtless see him butt heads with the Saudi-led coalition, which is simultaneously bombing Houthis, blocking sea and air aid routes and running its own large-scale humanitarian operation in Yemen.




In February 2018, United Nations Secretary‑General António Guterres appointed Martin Griffiths of the United Kingdom as his Special Envoy for Yemen. Mr. Griffiths brings extensive experience in conflict resolution, negotiation, mediation and humanitarian affairs, having worked with the UN and other International Organizations. He was also the founding Director of the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue in Geneva, where he specialized in developing political dialogue between governments and insurgents in a range of countries across Asia, Africa and Europe.


Thank you so much, progpen, for your quite excellent information.

However, do you think Mr Martin will be interested in discussing the case of South Yemen, which originally has been raised since 1994 after the former legeal president of People's Democratic Republic of Yemen announced the disengagement since the Yemeni Union was not as it was promised to be by the leader of the South and North Yemen?


With his history and experience, it is expected that he is working to get all parties to the table to talk. We would actually have to guess at reasons that he might not want to succeed. There is no indication that he is playing favorites or wants one uside to win over the others.


Today, Al-Houthies have violated the agreement of Sweden launching an Iranian-made rocket into the Al-Anad base in the province of Lahj.


Romany
Posted: Thursday, January 10, 2019 6:32:06 PM
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Joined: 6/14/2009
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Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Ah Geez, Coop, that's really bad news.

Please don't think that other people in the world don't care about what's happening.

There is a huge difference between what a government of a country says and what the ordinary men and women say, or think or feel.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 8:48:45 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Romany wrote:
Ah Geez, Coop, that's really bad news.

Please don't think that other people in the world don't care about what's happening.

There is a huge difference between what a government of a country says and what the ordinary men and women say, or think or feel.

Thank you very much, Romany for your kind thoughts.
But, I think spokesmen and spokesnwomen in a country are like ordinary citizens in that country(i.e. they don't vary greatly from average people. That is, they don't vary in not being died, in their need to breathe air, to drink water, to eat food, to make relationship, etc.. etcetera, etcetera.)

As a result, I think, ordinary citizens in any country can be sparking first a peaceful demonstration against any violence, spiraling to a coup to overthrow a president, king/queen, or prince/princess if they feel they are dealt unfairly.

I am passing a bad judgment on this Houthies' violating behaviour, and I am also passing the buck to the UN Special Envoy for Yemen, Martin, who, before bombing that base, had visited Sana's lately confirming all Yemeni parties were committed with the agreement of Sweden.

We are all here awaiting what sentence would be passed on Houthies, along with Iran.

IMHO, I think negotiating with Houthies on the table, while still occupying Sana'a, and they haven't surrendered their weapons, is a crazy idea.
FounDit
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 11:54:26 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 13,077
Neurons: 63,637
And after all that has been written here, what I said about the U.S. has been verified by all posters concerning Nationalism.

Quote:
"Trump himself defined what he meant by Nationalist when he said it was someone who loves their country and puts its interest above Globalism."

The citizens of each country believe the most good and their best interests are served when their country is strong, safe, and prosperous. That holds true for Yemen, Russia, Ukraine, Great Britain, and every other country.

So when Trump spoke of Nationalism, this was exactly what he meant. Their is no "White Nationalism" meant by that term. It was a pejorative term, the only purpose of which was to insult the man. Stupid people saying stupid things.
Blaidd-Drwg
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 1:34:55 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/2/2015
Posts: 2,048
Neurons: 435,909
Location: Zimmerman, Minnesota, United States
The Dipshit in Chief also said:
"Sorry losers and haters, but my IQ is one of the highest - and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault."

"[John McCain is]... not a war hero. He's a war hero - he's a war hero 'cause he was captured. I Like people that weren't captured, OK, I hate to tell you."

"I look very much forward to showing my financials, because they are huge."

"I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will have Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."

"I will be phenomenal to the women. I mean, I want to help women."

"The U.S. cannot allow EBOLA-infected people back. People that go to far away places to help out are great - but must suffer the consequences!"

"It's really cold outside, they are calling it a major freeze, weeks ahead of normal. Man, we could use a big fat dose of global warming!"

"The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive."

"To be blunt, people would vote for me. They just would. Why? Maybe because I'm so good looking."

"The line of 'Make America great again,' the phrase, that was mine, I came up with it about a year ago, and I kept using it, and everybody's using it, they are all loving it. I don't know, I guess I should copyright it, maybe I have copyrighted it."
("Let's Make America Great Again" was one of Ronald Reagan's most well-known campaign slogans)

"If you look at Saddam Hussein, he killed terrorists. I'm not saying he was an angel, but this guy killed terrorists."

"I'm the most successful person ever to run for the presidency, by far. Nobody's ever been more successful than me. I'm the most successful person ever to run. Ross Perot isn't successful like me. Romney - I have a Gucci store that's worth more than Romney."

"While @BetteMidler is an extremely unattractive woman, I refuse to say that because I always insist on being politically correct."

"All of the women on The Apprentice flirted with me - consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected."
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:05:39 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
FounDit wrote:
What other country do people all over the world seek help from when disaster strikes? Russia? China? Please.

FounDit, Yes, for Yemen, they seek help from the US, and the UK. But, Ha, what their last UN Special Envoy for Yemen did. He ordered to surrender Al-Hudaidah to Houthies after being controlled by the Yemeni government. And since then, they are launching Iranian-made rockets into some lands of the South Yemen, Aden. Lahj, etc.
The UN Special Envoy's initiation returned Houthies strong again. Congratulation for Martin Griffith, and for the stupid Yemeni spokesmen who listened to the Martin Griffith.
A cooperator
Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2019 12:42:36 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Romany wrote:
Ah Geez, Coop, that's really bad news.

Please don't think that other people in the world don't care about what's happening.

There is a huge difference between what a government of a country says and what the ordinary men and women say, or think or feel.

Major General Mohammed Saleh Tamah died, the dawn of the Sunday, of his wounds after being hit at the base of Al-Anad base bombed with an Iranian-made rocket carried out by Houthis.

Damn on Houthies, along with Iran, and shame on Martin Griffith.
In our Ouran, it is said "whoever has cast the first stone toward you, then you should attack them as what they attacked you as."
No peace anymore for Houthis until killing all of them and expelling them to Iran.


[image not available]

A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:25:22 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hope123 wrote:
I would never be able to understand all the different "tribal" (in a worldly sense) players in the Yemeni war but do understand suffering.

Here is Chrystia Freeland's recent tweet. She is minister of foreign affairs for Canada and just negotiated a good NAFTA deal for Canada against all odds.

Canada calls for an immediate ceasefire in #Yemen. We deplore the humanitarian disaster and demand immediate access for lifesaving food and aid.

Her previous tweet to Saudi Arabia about releasing Canadians and the Saudi human rights policies got an overreaction by the Saudi prince and pretty costly financial sanctions against Canada. And many Canadians mad at her but she didn't back down. Canadians are calling for the present govt to cancel sales of vehicles to the Saudis. The deal was made by a previous govt and it is hard to undo a deal. They say there is no proof the vehicles were used in war, but who knows.

Anyhow, tiny Canada and Chrystia Freeland need some backup.


Hope123,
I heard you repeating that Canada would like to find a final solution for the Yemeni issue. However, Nexen pushed out of Yemen oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port since the Saudi Arabia, UAE, along with their strong allies, the US and UK, interfered in the Yemeni issue. May you account for that to me?
Can I understand that KSA, UAE, the USA, and UK ordered Canada to pull out of oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port?
Exporting the Yemen oil is ceased is why Yemeni economy is worse and Yemeni currency is collapsing everyday.
A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 9:18:30 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Romany wrote:
Ah Geez, Coop, that's really bad news.

Please don't think that other people in the world don't care about what's happening.




Romany, and what happened to the British ship isn't bad news, is it? You've been gabbling on you'd stop the aggressive actions of Iran against Arab countries. However, hey! We recently found out that Iran itself kidnapped a ship belonging to the United Kingdom of Great Britain, and no thing has yet done for Iran. I was awaiting what would happen for Iran in return before I published this post of mine. I think the UK gives up quickly since it became very old like a lion when it gets old.
Romany
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 10:07:09 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 16,759
Neurons: 53,380
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom
Coop. I do not gabble. I may ramble at times in discussiond here on English - but "gabbling" is a vocal thing - never having met you have can have no idea of whether I do it or not. But, as I said, I don't. It's anathema to my style.

As for discussing the war in Yemen, or Iran, or Irak or Pakistan or anywhere other than the war in which I brought up my two boys? Nope. Never done it. Because, except for the one war I was embroiled in, I don't know enough about their histories, their social constructs,their systems of government, to take a partisan view of any of the combattants . So the idea of having taken a stand on stopping Iran...? I think you are dreaming.For a start, I am anti-war. All wars. I have never commented on, showed favour to, or dissed any of the participants in any of the conflicts raging around the world. I don't know enough about the origins, history, or aims of the countries involved. Most certainly I have never taken such a stand as: "I will stop the aggressive actions of Iran against Arab countries"?? Have no idea who said those words, but it was not me.

I have made two comments on this thread. The first was when you hi-jacked the thread and turned it round to reflect your own personal problems.Last year. Did I say anything about politics? No. I thanked you for the chance for us ignorant Westerners to hear something about it from those who DO know about it.

In the second I commiserated with you for the trouble you are enduring, and sought to reassure you that people DO care about other people and their troubles.

Yet you've used my second post to lead into 3 different subjects - including using it, EIGHT MONTHS after it was written, to revive this thread in order to insult me and my birth country?

I find that obsessive and rather creepy.



A cooperator
Posted: Thursday, August 22, 2019 6:14:48 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Romany, No, I didn't say any insulting wordings. I am not as good as you're in English, but I definitely didn't insult anyone. I said the UK should have punished Iran for kidnapping ships on the world sea passages. So, I described the UK as if it was like an old lion since it didn't do what was supposed to be done.


I didn't come to insult anyone here. All what I meant is, on January 10, 2019 8:40:59 PM, I posted about what attacks Houthies supported by Iran did in South Yemen, Aden, and all what you commented about what I had said was that attack was bad news, and you realised what happened there, in Aden.


However, we haven't seen any sanctions or a little bomb done against Iran as a little ear pinch, (when a child makes something wrong, a parent pinches the child's ear not to repeat what s/he did) to be disciplined and not to interfere in others' affairs.


Now, in this thread I raised what Iran did for the UK with kidnapping the British ship.


You say you're anti-war. But, why did your country, along with the United States, Denmark, Australia, Poland, and others, involve in the war against the Arab country, Iraq, on March 20, 2003?


So long, it's been said that you, the American and British government's, are allies to Saudi Arabia, and KSA is standby to support your military forces by any financial supply in order for fight Iran as done in the war against Iraq.


As a result, why do you not agree with the deal of coming to fight Iran as you did with Saddam Hussain, the former president of Iraq??? The simple question is you don't see Iran is an enemy for you as long as it is a Persian country which has been threatening only Arab countries. But, hey, Iran now threatens even the UK and the prove is the British ship kidnapped lately by Iran.

Don't give dam shit excuses about what happened in Iraq was wrong. If wrong or right, come now and hit Iran, and do a favor, not only for Arab countries, but for the entire world.

Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 3:57:18 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
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Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
A cooperator wrote:
You say you're anti-war. But, why did your country, along with the United States, Denmark, Australia, Poland, and others, involve in the war against the Arab country, Iraq, on March 20, 2003?

So long, it's been said that you, the American and British government's, are allies to Saudi Arabia, and KSA is standby to support your military forces by any financial supply in order for fight Iran as done in the war against Iraq.

As a result, why do you not agree with the deal of coming to fight Iran as you did with Saddam Hussain, the former president of Iraq??? The simple question is you don't see Iran is an enemy for you as long as it is a Persian country which has been threatening only Arab countries. But, hey, Iran now threatens even the UK and the prove is the British ship kidnapped lately by Iran.


Why are you comparing Romany's opinion with the behaviour of the British government? She didn't personally elect them all and she is not responsible for their decisions.

Why isn't her empathic response to your post enough? Why are you focusing on her so specifically?
Y111
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 6:10:51 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 367
Neurons: 1,824
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Lotje1000 wrote:
Why are you comparing Romany's opinion with the behaviour of the British government? She didn't personally elect them all and she is not responsible for their decisions.

If you live in a democracy, the government is your representative. It acts as your agent. So you can't say that you aren't responsible for its actions.

You should also be interested in its actions and have an opinion on them. Because you will have to decide whether you want these people to continue to represent you or not.

If you say, "I didn't elect them and am not responsible and don't know why they did this or that", then what is the difference between democracy and dictatorship? How does a citizen differ from a mere inhabitant?
Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 6:37:02 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
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Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
Y111 wrote:
Lotje1000 wrote:
Why are you comparing Romany's opinion with the behaviour of the British government? She didn't personally elect them all and she is not responsible for their decisions.

If you live in a democracy, the government is your representative. It acts as your agent. So you can't say that you aren't responsible for its actions.

You should also be interested in its actions and have an opinion on them. Because you will have to decide whether you want these people to continue to represent you or not.

If you say, "I didn't elect them and am not responsible and don't know why they did this or that", then what is the difference between democracy and dictatorship? How does a citizen differ from a mere inhabitant?


If you voted in a democracy and you didn't vote for those in power, you are not responsible for their actions. If you did vote for them but they make decisions that you did not agree with or that weren't in their party manifesto, you are not responsible for those actions. The only thing you can do then, is take that into account for the next election.
Additionally, every individual can decide for themself whether they want to take more of a stance outside of the normal power of their vote.

Singling out Romany and holding her responsible for any decisions the UK makes is absurd and misses the point entirely. The government may represent its people, but Romany is not a representative of the UK government. If you want to know Romany's opinion, then I suggest you ask her. If you have an opinion about her opinion, I suggest you mention it and see if she's interested in debating it with you. But to judge Romany for her influence on the UK government is ludicrous at best.
Y111
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 8:34:20 AM
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Joined: 6/25/2017
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Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Lotje1000 wrote:
If you voted in a democracy and you didn't vote for those in power, you are not responsible for their actions.

Not quite true. They are in power not only because others voted for them but also because you agreed with the result of the vote. You agreed that those people can represent your country even though you don't like them. This was your decision. Are you not responsible for your decisions?

Trump, for example, is the president of the US and not just of his voters. He acts on behalf of all Americans because some of them wanted him to be president and others agreed to this.

I am surprised by your view on democracy. I thought that the principle "he wasn't my candidate but he is now my president" was universally recognized.

In a democracy, the whole nation decides who will be in power, and the whole nation is responsible. Isn't this the difference between democracy and dictatorship? The government of all vs. the government of some?

If you insist that the government you didn't vote for isn't yours, you actually admit to living in a dictatorship.
Lotje1000
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 9:45:45 AM

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Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
Y111 wrote:
Not quite true. They are in power not only because others voted for them but also because you agreed with the result of the vote. You agreed that those people can represent your country even though you don't like them. This was your decision. Are you not responsible for your decisions?


Sure, but you are not the only one deciding things. A democracy means every individual gets a vote and not everyone will agree to the same thing. You can try to spread your message and convince people to vote like you, sure, but in the end, you can't control what anyone else will vote for. Controlling other people's votes would negate the point of democracy. You're responsible for your decisions only and they only carry as much weight as those of the next person.

Y111 wrote:
Trump, for example, is the president of the US and not just of his voters. He acts on behalf of all Americans because some of them wanted him to be president and others agreed to this.

Yeah, that still only makes the people who voted him into office responsible for the vote they cast. The others who do not agree with him are not responsible for him, as they did not cast their vote in his favour.

Maybe you mean individuals are responsible for supporting a government that could elect someone they don't want? But if individuals don't support a democracy in which the majority that rules could be a majority they don't want, then they're not actually supporting the concept of a democracy.

Or, perhaps you mean that individuals are responsible for supporting a form of democracy in which, for example, the electoral office votes for someone who wasn't actually voted into office by the majority of the country? Or perhaps a first-past-the-post system like the UK uses? Even in that case, an individual is responsible for their decision in supporting or not supporting the system. But it still requires a majority to make a change.

In either of the above scenarios, Romany is one individual that is being singled out in this thread as the person to be judged for the decisions of her government. But she is an individual and can only be held accountable for her own decisions. So as I said, you can ask her about her opinions and debate those opinions if she chooses to share them with you, but that's about as far as it can reasonably go.

Y111 wrote:
I am surprised by your view on democracy. I thought that the principle "he wasn't my candidate but he is now my president" was universally recognized.

In a democracy, the whole nation decides who will be in power, and the whole nation is responsible. Isn't this the difference between democracy and dictatorship? The government of all vs. the government of some?


As you said, the whole nation is responsible, yet my point is that in this thread, Romany is being singled out as an individual to answer for the decisions the UK government made. Coop did not address the whole nation, only Romany.

Y111 wrote:
If you insist that the government you didn't vote for isn't yours, you actually admit to living in a dictatorship.


I never actually said that the government you didn't vote for isn't yours. I just said that an individual is not responsible for the government that results from an election.
Y111
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:52:51 AM
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Joined: 6/25/2017
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Neurons: 1,824
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Lotje1000 wrote:
As you said, the whole nation is responsible, yet my point is that in this thread, Romany is being singled out as an individual to answer for the decisions the UK government made.

Nations consist of individuals. And since in a democracy the whole nation decides who will be in power, all the individuals share the responsibility. The majority voted for those people and the minorities agreed to this choice. They agreed to let those who were elected represent the whole country, including them.

Lotje1000 wrote:
I never actually said that the government you didn't vote for isn't yours. I just said that an individual is not responsible for the government that results from an election.

But the former follows from the latter. If you say, "I am not responsible for what these people do", it means "They don't represent me. They are not my agents". In other words, "This is not my government. It's the government of those who voted for them."
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 10:54:46 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Y111

I think you have it backwards.

In a democracy it is the Government that is responsible TO the people.

It just means that the majority rules rather than one person rules. They do it by electing representatives.

There are agencies and watchdogs set up to hold those representatives accountable for their decisions and the government is to be transparent. A concerned citizen, whether they voted for the government or not, has the right, even the duty to present concerns to those agencies or to the government without fear of reprisal, but that is the only recourse an individual has.

Romany may have already used her one voice to tell her government her opinion, but she is no more responsible for the whole of UK decisions and the voices of millions of other UK citizens, than you are for what your government does. The only power she has is one vote.

And one vote out of millions is only one more than the zero in a dictatorship as far as power and thus responsibility goes.

Just because I showed him a bit of empathy, (same as that's all Romany did here) I had another forum member from Morocco who used to send me private messages ragging on me because my government was pro Israel. I asked him exactly what he wanted me to do. He seemed to think I had some power to change my government policies. Not true.

Coop is actually attacking someone who was sympathetic - these two instances make one not want to show empathy if all it gets is being attacked for something they have no power over. Furthermore, in my case, I do not know the intimate history of many years of Israel/Palestine conflict to even have an opinion. I just want those countries that are always fighting, to find some way to stop it themselves, instead of expecting other countries to do it for them.
Romany
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 11:45:50 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
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Neurons: 53,380
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Lotje -

Thank you for your support. As you can see, though, while you and I are talking about the personal, the mindset of the two blokes we are talking to is firmly rooted in politics, national grievances, International power-plays, hypetheticals, projects, reflection on previous events.

We are being talked at.

I found it very unsettling and yes, creepy, to be singled out - yet again. Your post reassured me that I wasn't being paranoid: the facts I presented supported this hypothesis. You are then confronted by another person who knows not the slightest thing about us but is anxious for a chance to do so some armchair politicizing and simply to use my avatar as a target point. To be fair, I think that, being women, neither poster actually considers either of us as actual people with our own opinions, histories, experiences, thoughts or intelligence...or people who love us, support us, value us.

That's why this Forum, as I've mentioned before, has ended up short of women posters. And gay posters. And black posters. It's a very tough place for women and minority groups.

I don't think either of these posters will take any notice of this...it's just emotional, female stuff. If they do respond at all it will only be more yada, yada, yada about war & politics - because those are proper, real subjects, and thus are the only important things.

Once again, thanks for the support. Makes me stronger for the next time.

love,
Rom.





A cooperator
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 12:36:42 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Lotje1000 wrote:
Why are you comparing Romany's opinion with the behaviour of the British government? She didn't personally elect them all and she is not responsible for their decisions.

Why isn't her empathic response to your post enough? Why are you focusing on her so specifically?


Since she told that I'd yet used her second post whose age was eight months to lead into 3 different subjects to revive this thread in order to insult her and her birth country.

Though I didn't write any insulting words for her.

I only wrote about what aggressive actions Iran has been doing around the Arab world since Saddam Hussein was disappeared from the face of the earth. Even Iran recently began to threaten the entire world.

However, her birth country is full of war mistakes done only against Arab Islamic countries, such as Iraq. Even that the UK was occupying the South Yemen till November, 1967.


Now, the UK uses another kind of occupying for the South Yemen, esp, Aden, that's, the UK supports its big ally, the UAE, in order for occupying the South Yemen with the aim of convincing our people that it tries to make us get back our independence from the North Yemen.
BobShilling
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 1:15:00 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/1/2018
Posts: 1,441
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Location: Beroun, Stredocesky, Czech Republic
A cooperator wrote:
her birth country is full with war mistakes done only against Arab Islamic countries, such as Iraq. Even that the UK was occupying the South Yemen till November, 1967.


Now, the UK uses another kind of occupying for the South Yemen, esp, Aden, that's, the UK supports its big ally, the UAE, in order for occupying the South Yemen with the aim of convincing our people that it tries to make us get back our independence from the North Yemen.


Feel free to criticise the UK government for its policies and actions, but individual British citizens are NOT in any way responsible for those policies and actions. To attack Romany, or indeed any individual citizen, for what the government of the their country says and does is completely unjustified and unjustifiable.

I don't know about Romany, but I have not only, when election time came, voted against the party in power, the government, at times when it did things I didn't approve of. I have taken part in public demonstrations to show my disapproval in the (vain) hope that things might change. The though that I (or any other individual) have been in some way responsible for the policies and actions of the government of my country is ridiculous.

Please restrict your criticism to criticism of what individuals have said in these forums or, if their real identity is known, to what they have said in the media.



A cooperator
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 1:33:27 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
BobShilling wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
her birth country is full with war mistakes done only against Arab Islamic countries, such as Iraq. Even that the UK was occupying the South Yemen till November, 1967.


Now, the UK uses another kind of occupying for the South Yemen, esp, Aden, that's, the UK supports its big ally, the UAE, in order for occupying the South Yemen with the aim of convincing our people that it tries to make us get back our independence from the North Yemen.


Feel free to criticise the UK government for its policies and actions, but individual British citizens are NOT in any way responsible for those policies and actions. To attack Romany, or indeed any individual citizen, for what the government of the their country says and does is completely unjustified and unjustifiable.

I don't know about Romany, but I have not only, when election time came, voted against the party in power, the government, at times when it did things I didn't approve of. I have taken part in public demonstrations to show my disapproval in the (vain) hope that things might change. The though that I (or any other individual) have been in some way responsible for the policies and actions of the government of my country is ridiculous.

Please restrict your criticism to criticism of what individuals have said in these forums or, if their real identity is known, to what they have said in the media.



Would you please tell me what are the insulting wordings I pointed to Romany?

You don't seem to have read what I stated.

I stated and made it clear that the UK became as an old lion since it has done no thing in return to the British ship kidnapped by Iran.

So long as Romany always says that it's bad news whenever told or heard of bad news took place in Yemen by Houthies, supported by Iran, I'v now passed her bad news about what Iran did to her expected strong country. She then considered this as an insult. What should I do for her if she insists on considering what I said has been creepy and insulting.

It is a short step from there to realising that then we also cannot hate those who thrive on spreading hatred.

Again, all what I meant is if a country thrives on spreading wars in some countries as a self-interest, it will be faced with troubles of what it did for those countries fighting each other. I hope I made myself understood.


Y111
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 1:37:34 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 367
Neurons: 1,824
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
What is bad about discussing politics in a politics forum? What does it have to do with women, minorities, etc? I wasn't discussing anyone's personality, just the idea of responsibility in a democracy. This is all very strange.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 2:11:00 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,088
Neurons: 51,999
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
A cooperator wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
I would never be able to understand all the different "tribal" (in a worldly sense) players in the Yemeni war but do understand suffering.

Here is Chrystia Freeland's recent tweet. She is minister of foreign affairs for Canada and just negotiated a good NAFTA deal for Canada against all odds.

Canada calls for an immediate ceasefire in #Yemen. We deplore the humanitarian disaster and demand immediate access for lifesaving food and aid.

Her previous tweet to Saudi Arabia about releasing Canadians and the Saudi human rights policies got an overreaction by the Saudi prince and pretty costly financial sanctions against Canada. And many Canadians mad at her but she didn't back down. Canadians are calling for the present govt to cancel sales of vehicles to the Saudis. The deal was made by a previous govt and it is hard to undo a deal. They say there is no proof the vehicles were used in war, but who knows.

Anyhow, tiny Canada and Chrystia Freeland need some backup.


Hope123,
I heard you repeating that Canada would like to find a final solution for the Yemeni issue. However, Nexen pushed out of Yemen oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port since the Saudi Arabia, UAE, along with their strong allies, the US and UK, interfered in the Yemeni issue. May you account for that to me?
Can I understand that KSA, UAE, the USA, and UK ordered Canada to pull out of oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port?
Exporting the Yemen oil is ceased is why Yemeni economy is worse and Yemeni currency is collapsing everyday.


I just saw this post from last Feb.

Coop - no I can't account for that to you. You'd have to call Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister, Chrystia Freeland for Canada's policies.
A cooperator
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 2:26:38 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 10/27/2011
Posts: 3,735
Neurons: 14,303
Location: Seiyun, Hadramawt, Yemen
Hope123 wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
I would never be able to understand all the different "tribal" (in a worldly sense) players in the Yemeni war but do understand suffering.

Here is Chrystia Freeland's recent tweet. She is minister of foreign affairs for Canada and just negotiated a good NAFTA deal for Canada against all odds.

Canada calls for an immediate ceasefire in #Yemen. We deplore the humanitarian disaster and demand immediate access for lifesaving food and aid.

Her previous tweet to Saudi Arabia about releasing Canadians and the Saudi human rights policies got an overreaction by the Saudi prince and pretty costly financial sanctions against Canada. And many Canadians mad at her but she didn't back down. Canadians are calling for the present govt to cancel sales of vehicles to the Saudis. The deal was made by a previous govt and it is hard to undo a deal. They say there is no proof the vehicles were used in war, but who knows.

Anyhow, tiny Canada and Chrystia Freeland need some backup.


Hope123,
I heard you repeating that Canada would like to find a final solution for the Yemeni issue. However, Nexen pushed out of Yemen oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port since the Saudi Arabia, UAE, along with their strong allies, the US and UK, interfered in the Yemeni issue. May you account for that to me?
Can I understand that KSA, UAE, the USA, and UK ordered Canada to pull out of oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port?
Exporting the Yemen oil is ceased is why Yemeni economy is worse and Yemeni currency is collapsing everyday.


I just saw this post from last Feb.

Coop - no I can't account for that to you. You'd have to call Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister, Chrystia Freeland for Canada's policies.


I wish that I could have called her since this question has been always raised by some of my citizens.
But, it's impossible that Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister, Chrystia Freeland, responds to an ordinary Yemeni citizen.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 2:27:05 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,088
Neurons: 51,999
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Rom, you had my support too, embedded in my response to YIII.

Plus I'd like to add to my response to YIII that being responsible for something means being answerable to somebody.

There is no way Romany or I or any individual is answerable to an individual from another country or even to that country unless physically there. And even though some people and countries think they can make other countries answerable for, say human rights violations, those countries really are not answerable to them. Think of Canada challenging China and Saudi Arabia. It is all right to let opinions be known but maybe Freeland should start minding Canada's business and let other countries run themselves, solve their own problems, and stop their own fighting. There are too many groups vying for power, land, and resources, and with the population increasing exponentially, those resources and land are going to get smaller and fewer.

Only countries that belong to larger groups such as to the UN are answerable to that group, answerable but without losing their autonomy.
Hope123
Posted: Friday, August 23, 2019 2:39:24 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 3/23/2015
Posts: 9,088
Neurons: 51,999
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
A cooperator wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
A cooperator wrote:
Hope123 wrote:
I would never be able to understand all the different "tribal" (in a worldly sense) players in the Yemeni war but do understand suffering.

Here is Chrystia Freeland's recent tweet. She is minister of foreign affairs for Canada and just negotiated a good NAFTA deal for Canada against all odds.

Canada calls for an immediate ceasefire in #Yemen. We deplore the humanitarian disaster and demand immediate access for lifesaving food and aid.

Her previous tweet to Saudi Arabia about releasing Canadians and the Saudi human rights policies got an overreaction by the Saudi prince and pretty costly financial sanctions against Canada. And many Canadians mad at her but she didn't back down. Canadians are calling for the present govt to cancel sales of vehicles to the Saudis. The deal was made by a previous govt and it is hard to undo a deal. They say there is no proof the vehicles were used in war, but who knows.

Anyhow, tiny Canada and Chrystia Freeland need some backup.


Hope123,
I heard you repeating that Canada would like to find a final solution for the Yemeni issue. However, Nexen pushed out of Yemen oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port since the Saudi Arabia, UAE, along with their strong allies, the US and UK, interfered in the Yemeni issue. May you account for that to me?
Can I understand that KSA, UAE, the USA, and UK ordered Canada to pull out of oil project at Al-Dhaba exploring port?
Exporting the Yemen oil is ceased is why Yemeni economy is worse and Yemeni currency is collapsing everyday.


I just saw this post from last Feb.

Coop - no I can't account for that to you. You'd have to call Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister, Chrystia Freeland for Canada's policies.


I wish that I could have called her since this question has been always raised by some of my citizens.
But, it's impossible that the Canada's Foreign Affairs Minister, Chrystia Freeland, responds to an ordinary Yemeni citizen.


You won't know unless you try. Send her an email. But keep it short and polite. You do realize that even Canadian citizens would get an answer only from her office, often a form letter. She is a busy woman and has people who look after correspondence. Keep me posted as to how you make out.

If I were she I'd tell you to solve your own problems. We are tired of being peacekeepers or worse. But she is a diplomat and would be more diplomatic than I am.

Why Romany is upset is because all she did was say she has empathy for you and you said she was gabbling, whatever that is. And then YIII tried to make the case that all citizens of a democracy are responsible for the actions of their government so therefore Romany was responsible for the UK government decisions, when that is way off base.
Y111
Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 2:38:55 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 367
Neurons: 1,824
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Hope123, thanks for your remarks, but I will refrain from continuing the discussion, for obvious reasons.

Actually I feel an aversion to posting here at all. It's like crossing a minefield. You never know what you are going to be accused of for expressing your thoughts. Controversial ideas are definitely not welcome on this forum. All work and no play seems to be its motto.
Lotje1000
Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:35:26 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 1,137
Neurons: 629,881
Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
Y111 wrote:
Nations consist of individuals. And since in a democracy the whole nation decides who will be in power, all the individuals share the responsibility. The majority voted for those people and the minorities agreed to this choice. They agreed to let those who were elected represent the whole country, including them.

A nation consists of individuals, indeed. All individuals have their own responsibility. But you don't know what individuals agreed to or not, at least not until they tell you. And Romany never said anything, yet Coop is addressing her directly, asking her to explain the policies of her government. If he wants to find an answer to his questions, he should find it with someone either a) willing to talk about it or b) who is part of the government.

At this point, no one knows which policies Romany does or does not support and we also don't know how she has protested said policies. So while on an intellectual level, you might say that individuals have had a part in deciding the government, you have no idea what applies in this particular case. Hence why I say it is absurd of Coop to start mentioning Romany repeatedly when talking about decisions the UK government have made.

I also want to reiterate Hope's point about how the government, by nature of being the government, is the one who bears the responsibility.

Y111 wrote:
But the former follows from the latter. If you say, "I am not responsible for what these people do", it means "They don't represent me. They are not my agents". In other words, "This is not my government. It's the government of those who voted for them."

That is your interpretation of my words, but that is not how I see it. In my personal case, I have not voted for the people who form the Belgian government. I do not agree with many of their proposals. That does not mean they are not the government, however. And however they choose to govern the country, I will let it inform my decision on who to vote for next time.
That is where my responsibility ends. Unless I start really protesting how things are going. If I believe that strongly about it, I believe it becomes my responsibility to do something about it, such as by contacting politicians directly, taking part in demonstrations or even trying for office myself.
Lotje1000
Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 5:54:10 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/3/2014
Posts: 1,137
Neurons: 629,881
Location: Leuven, Flanders, Belgium
Romany wrote:
I found it very unsettling and yes, creepy, to be singled out - yet again. Your post reassured me that I wasn't being paranoid: the facts I presented supported this hypothesis. You are then confronted by another person who knows not the slightest thing about us but is anxious for a chance to do so some armchair politicizing and simply to use my avatar as a target point.


I support you, Romany. I think, in the best case, Coop needs to rephrase how he talks about politics and needs to seriously rethink addressing a single person when he has an issue with a country. It's fine to ask for opinions, but I believe the wording made it sound like he was demanding answers from you personally. The repeated mentions of your name indeed make it sound obsessive (and creepy).

Coop, to be clear, you seemed ok with Romany's answer in her first response to you. You said she said kind words. But then you keep re-quoting her and continually addressing her in following posts, even though she hadn't joined the conversation again. And you also say she's been "gabbing on" about things. I'm pretty sure that is what she talks about when she says you insulted her.

You may not have intended everything that way, but if you genuinely want to know why Romany and I responded the way we did, that is why. You may want to rethink how you phrase sentences and also whether you really want to talk to one person directly when you are looking for answers about an entire nation's decisions.

This is also not new. This is similar to behaviour you've shown in the past with other posters. I remember you singling out Koh Elaine, even going so far as to claim she and another poster were lovers who were targeting you.

Romany wrote:
To be fair, I think that, being women, neither poster actually considers either of us as actual people with our own opinions, histories, experiences, thoughts or intelligence...or people who love us, support us, value us.

I think you are jumping the gun here. I think most of our disputes are largely down to cultural differences which show themselves in the topics we each hold dear, but also in the way we have learnt to enter discussions and how we phrase things. I think, by nature of it being the Internet and a forum, people (in general) are more inclined to see (all) posters as their avatars and less as the people behind them. Less as individuals in a context.

That is not to say there haven't been gender issues on the forum. I do remember certain people saying women should mind their place, and Coop's response to Koh Elaine in the past also has elements of that. But I don't think that applies to this thread.
Y111
Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2019 8:05:16 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 367
Neurons: 1,824
Location: Kurgan, Kurgan, Russia
Lotje1000, thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I have some objections, but I think we'd better leave it at that and agree to disagree.
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