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depression &affluence Options
srkdr68
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:12:16 PM
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Richer Countries Have Higher Depression Rates
Study Shows U.S. Has World's Second Highest Depression Rate
By Matt McMillen
WebMD Health NewsReviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD July 26, 2011

-- Depression rates around the world vary according to a nation's affluence, with the highest income countries -- including the U.S. -- reporting the highest levels of depression, a study shows.

Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:29:32 PM

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So, what is your personal opinion about this, srk?
Mr. Soria
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 1:35:56 PM
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Depression . . . for been rich ? ? ?
I WANT TO BE DEPRESS
dag92821
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 2:01:53 PM
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Doesn't surprise me. Far too many people in this country focus on making money to be happy. When they get it...not so happy. They need a puppy. :)
redgriffin
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 3:39:41 PM
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I think that this is the have nots complaining about the have. Still it makes sense in that if you are richer you have more time to dwell on your problems so you would be much more depressed. I just wish that I could get a little more depression so I would have to pay less taxes.
JudyK
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 4:13:07 PM
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But think about it for a minute. The more money one has, the more responsibilities there are. The more concern as to whether it will be enough? Will there be more? Does (s)he like / love me, or my money or what it can provide to them? Will someone try to do me harm in order to get my money? At least it might be that way - I really wouldn't know since I'm not in that financial group. Just some thoughts to consider....
intelfam
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 5:02:19 PM
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JudyK wrote:
But think about it for a minute. The more money one has, the more responsibilities there are. The more concern as to whether it will be enough? Will there be more? Does (s)he like / love me, or my money or what it can provide to them? Will someone try to do me harm in order to get my money? At least it might be that way - I really wouldn't know since I'm not in that financial group. Just some thoughts to consider....


Some truth in this I suspect. I would imagine that jobs in developed countries, and here i am thinking of the middle class as "rich" in global terms, would be more pressured (after all that's how one creates excess wealth) and by their very nature less satisfying. But that's just a personal opinion. I also wonder whether the pressure to perform/achieve also means that one has to have a diagnosis to explain absence/poor performance. In a less developed country, one can perhaps choose to take a day out without too much comeback, and more understanding?

RuthP
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 5:22:40 PM

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One rather suspects fewer people in poor countries go through any process which could diagnose depression. (This is related to what redgriffin said.)

One must have the opportunity to be diagnosed before the diagnosis will show up.

And, one must have practitioners who consider the possibility of depression before a diagnosis of depression will be made.
TL Hobs
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 8:07:29 PM
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It seems to me that happy times seem to fly by too fast, like when I am on vacation, for example. It seems the vacation just started and then it is over and I have to go back to work. But, when I am going through a stressful time, or doing something that I do not enjoy doing, I am depressed and it seems to take forever before it is over.

So, maybe the rich folks have figured out that if they are depressed, it will seem like they live forever. They really won't, but it will feel like it. Us poor folks could learn something from that.
ellana
Posted: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 8:48:33 PM
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I agree with RuthP. Depression has lost its definition, especially in developped countries where any single sign of loss of psychological wellbeing gets the doctor's label of depression and the pharmaceuticals come flying their way. Granted, some people have genuine depression with classic symptoms but many are whiners ans wingers who can't cope with bits of adversity. I think that depression and pain (look up stats on the number of people who 'have' pain) have become the crutches of affluent societies. I've worked in healthcare my entire working life, in several countries and I have seen a progressive decline into 'woe is me' medicine. Dissatisfaction with one's lot or circumstances does not equal depression. People in less developped countries often don't have the luxury of allowing themselves to fall apart and perhaps don't have the number of doctors who have the script pad at the ready nor does the person have the loose change to get the 'feel better' tablets.
TFD defines depression as : A psychiatric disorder characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, loss of appetite, anhedonia, feelings of extreme sadness, guilt, helplessness and hopelessness, and thoughts of death. Also called clinical depression.
srkdr68
Posted: Thursday, August 4, 2011 4:17:18 AM
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Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
So, what is your personal opinion about this, srk?







Change the life style,don't be too materialistic.
intelfam
Posted: Thursday, August 4, 2011 7:46:53 AM
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ellana wrote:
I agree with RuthP. Depression has lost its definition, especially in developped countries where any single sign of loss of psychological wellbeing gets the doctor's label of depression and the pharmaceuticals come flying their way. Granted, some people have genuine depression with classic symptoms but many are whiners ans wingers who can't cope with bits of adversity. I think that depression and pain (look up stats on the number of people who 'have' pain) have become the crutches of affluent societies. I've worked in healthcare my entire working life, in several countries and I have seen a progressive decline into 'woe is me' medicine. Dissatisfaction with one's lot or circumstances does not equal depression. People in less developped countries often don't have the luxury of allowing themselves to fall apart and perhaps don't have the number of doctors who have the script pad at the ready nor does the person have the loose change to get the 'feel better' tablets.

TFD defines depression as : A psychiatric disorder characterized by an inability to concentrate, insomnia, loss of appetite, anhedonia, feelings of extreme sadness, guilt, helplessness and hopelessness, and thoughts of death. Also called clinical depression.

Sadly you may be right. I find it odd that the diagnostic guidelines for psychiatric illness (ICD10 in Europe DSMIV in the US) gets modified - and then the numbers all change. Nobody had ADD or ADHD in Europe until the insurers in the US demanded a coding before they would cover healthcare for adolescents - some of whom undoubtedly had problems (but not all medical, surely?) So maybe depression hasn't lost its clinical definition, but either the definition has now been widened (by the healthcare professionals who are responsible for drawing up these guidelines) or we are labelling it as pathological too early. There is of course the "everyday language" process going on. To be depressed was once just a statement of mood in everyday speech, its use now evokes "sickness" - evokes treatment - evokes cure - which is handed over to health care folks lock stock and barrel. The nicety of the words "clinical depression" has no currency in everyday speech.

I am unsure whether I'd agree totally about whiners and whingers, but I would go along with the proposition that we look for a quick fix - and ignore real-life/natural processes for dealing with loss.

I see there has been some research which suggests that people taking SSRIs for depression are more likely to relapse than those who don't medicate. .This might suggest that professionals are too quick to collude with dampening a process that needs to be "gone through" - perhaps with other support.

Certainly in the UK and speaking of Post Natal Depression, it was clear to those of us dealing with it, that social support was by far best predictor of outcome - and that the huge majority of sufferers had moved away from family and friends because they couldn't afford housing in their home areas - and so couldn't "cope with bits of adversity" - because evolution has never demanded it of us - to such an extent and in such numbers. I would hazard that this sort of process (of coping without family or other social support) is not as common in developing nations - but I bet it happens in time.




Cat
Posted: Thursday, August 4, 2011 7:58:55 PM

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My first thought was that it costs money to go to therapy and many insurance plans don't cover it or only cover part of the cost. Therefore people with extra money can afford to pay someone to talk about their problems.
intelfam
Posted: Friday, August 5, 2011 7:14:53 AM
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Cat wrote:
My first thought was that it costs money to go to therapy and many insurance plans don't cover it or only cover part of the cost. Therefore people with extra money can afford to pay someone to talk about their problems.


Hmm, be interesting to compare UK/US, where the funding of "therapy" is different. I would think it true that, in the UK, you would be hard pressed to get anything more than CBT on the national Health (State Insurance) system for individual problems - and certainly I have not heard of psycho-analysis being funded in the last 10/15 years. Paying for the latter would be a tall order for all but the top 10%, as it is really about disposable income and priorities - and might not be a significant factor in the calculations in some states.

abcxyz
Posted: Friday, August 5, 2011 7:45:02 AM
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srkdr68 wrote:
Jyrkkä Jätkä wrote:
So, what is your personal opinion about this, srk?

Change the life style,don't be too materialistic.


Seeing ours is a country with 80% of its population living below Rs.20 (about 40 cents) a day, treatment for depression is a luxury that most of our people just can't afford. Even the upper-middle class depressed me doesn't seek therapy(unless it gets too serious).

If you really want to know about depression, don't go by these studies. Look up the suicide rate list by country.
intelfam
Posted: Friday, August 5, 2011 4:11:16 PM
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Interesting article today on medscape.com Medscape - anti-de[ressants U.S. - don't know if folk can access it so:
Extract:
Antidepressant prescribing by nonpsychiatrist providers in the United States has increased substantially in recent years, according to a report released today.

What's particularly "worrisome," say the report’s authors, is that a "large and growing" proportion of antidepressant prescribing by nonpsychiatrists happens without an accompanying psychiatric diagnosis.

"Many of the patients who are receiving these medications are dealing with the stresses of life or physical illness, and there is no evidence that antidepressants are effective in these groups of patients," .............
.....Patients most likely to receive an antidepressant prescription without a psychiatric diagnosis were non-Hispanic white women aged 50 years and older with private health insurance or Medicare. They also tended to have diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, or multiple medical conditions or report excessive fatigue, headaches, nonspecific pain, or trouble sleeping..........
.......Americans are increasingly receptive to the idea of antidepressant use for less severe conditions. Many people view psychiatric medications as enhancers of personal and social well-being, providing benefits that are well beyond these medications’ clinically approved uses,.........
........."In patients with very mild symptoms of mental disorders," Dr. Narrow explained, "usually the best mode of action is to provide psychotherapy, behavior changes, exercise, and other lifestyle changes, which are often very effective, whereas antidepressants, for example, in very mild cases of depression, tend not to work very well."

This is about giving out ADs without a psych diagnosis. so I'm not too sure it adds much to the discussion.

intelfam
Posted: Friday, August 5, 2011 4:19:04 PM
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abcxyz wrote:


If you really want to know about depression, don't go by these studies. Look up the suicide rate list by country.


IMHO, that'll be a very rough measure for depression, suicide is not always seen as a symptom of major mental illness - and the figures would be blurred by the suicides of folk with Bi-Polar and psychotic illness. Suicide is really a measure of the resources that the person "sees" as available in an impossible situation. It would be interesting to see some social demographics ( physicians per capita, urban/rural breakdowns etc) along with suicide figures, then we might get somewhere. If, and I mean if, antidepressants work (and you get the person through the first few weeks when suicide rate increases), then suicide rates might correlate inversely with prescriptions, but ......

Romany
Posted: Saturday, August 6, 2011 1:26:02 PM
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abcy -

looking up suicide rates by country isn't all that helpful not only as Intel explained but because, depending on the country, the rates are often not accurate.

I tried to look up suicide rates for here in China but could find nothing up to date. Quite a few sites staed it was "one of the highest in the world" but what wasn't taken into consideration was the fact that an entire family loses Face if a member suicides - therefore the reported numbers are very far behind the actual numbers.

There are only 19 suicide counselling centres in an entire country of 1.6 Billion people. So how could figures be accurate?

At my old University I became an unofficial counsellor (i.e. students would come to me to discuss problems as they feel parents and teachers - for the whole Face reason - cannot be approached). The numbers in that one University alone were horrendous. Yet, during the 3 years I was there not one single suicide was officially recorded.

I was told that there was 'no such problem' - and when I offered to present students with healed or healing scars was told that they had been only 'fooling about' by the Powers That Be.

The beginning of each semester brings whole crops of suicides across the board - from students as young as 11.

Depression is endemic all over China for a variety of reasons. The official line is that rural women are the highest suiciders, but I disagree: students suffer from high degrees of stress and depression which lead to far too many suicides. There seems to be no difference between their backgrounds:- wealthy Middle Class or rural poor. It seems unlikely that, in the next decade at least, Depression will be acknowledged as that would encompass National Loss of Face. I despair for my students here.







intelfam
Posted: Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:00:28 AM
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Romany wrote:
abcy -

looking up suicide rates by country isn't all that helpful not only as Intel explained but because, depending on the country, the rates are often not accurate.


Good point Romany in my insular way, I forgot to say that statistics are only as good as the reporters. Mea culpa.
Students seem to have rough time in many countries. We, like you get a little peak of "Mental Health Act assessments" when students start at U and get isolated in freshers week, but the main one is in finals week/fortnight, when panic arises as someone realises they haven't seen "X" for a coupla weeks.
intelfam
Posted: Sunday, August 7, 2011 3:06:24 PM
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Of course, as wealthier societies tend to be more secular: Then maybe that's why affluent societies have more depression? This article is also interesting for its light on the conflicting values topic....

Researchers at Harvard-affiliated McLean Hospital have found that those who believe in a benevolent God tend to worry less and be more tolerant of life's uncertainties than those who believe in an indifferent or punishing God.

The paper, recently published in the Journal of Clinical Psychology, which will be presented by lead author David H. Rosmarin, PhD, assistant in psychology at McLean, at the annual meeting of the American Psychological Association on Friday, Aug. 5 in Washington, D.C., urges mental health professionals to integrate patients' spiritual beliefs into their treatment regimens, especially for patients who are religious.
"The implications of this paper for the field of psychiatry are that we have to take patients' spirituality more seriously than we do," Rosmarin said.
"Most practitioners are unprepared to conceptualize how spiritual beliefs may contribute to affective states and thus many struggle to integrate such themes into treatment in a spiritually sensitive manner," the paper says.
The paper reports data from two separate studies. One questioned 332 subjects solicited from religious web sites and religious organizations. It included Christians and Jews.
This study found that those who trusted in God to look out for them had lower levels of worry and less intolerance of uncertainty in their lives than those who had a "mistrust" of God to help them out.
The second study was of 125 subjects culled from Jewish organizations. They were shown an audio-video program designed to increase trust in God and decrease mistrust in God. Participants in the two-week program reported significant increases in trust in God and significant decreases in mistrust in God, as well as clinically and statistically significant decreases in intolerance of uncertainty, worry and stress.
"These findings...suggest that certain spiritual beliefs are tied to intolerance of uncertainty and worry for some individuals," the paper concludes.
"We found that the positive beliefs of trust in God were associated with less worry and that this relationship was partially mediated by lower levels of intolerance of uncertainty," it added. "Conversely, the negative beliefs of mistrust in God correlated with higher worry and intolerance..."
The study sought to get a greater understanding of why people worry.
"We had proposed that beliefs about God, both positive and negative, would relate to both worry and intolerance of uncertainty and we found support for our model," Rosmarin said in an interview. "They do relate."
The paper noted that other studies have shown that 93 percent of Americans believe in God or a higher power and that 50 percent of them say that religion is very important to them.
"Furthermore, existing evidence indicates that many areas of spirituality and religion are salient predictors of psychological functioning," it adds.
Yet Rosmarin said that mental health providers rarely if ever ask patients about their spiritual beliefs. "That's crazy," he said. "We don't even ask. We aren't trained to. And it is important."
Rosmarin said the matter is "a health care issue, not a religious issue," and said that by knowing what people believe, mental health professionals can do a better job of helping patients.
Provided by McLean Hospital
abcxyz
Posted: Sunday, August 7, 2011 3:11:58 PM
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Yep, intelfam & Romany. Mine was a knee-jerk reaction to srkdr68's comment. After all I see a lot of people on the streets who are depressed and have enough reason to be so, not because they are materialistic but because they hardly have anything.
intelfam
Posted: Sunday, August 7, 2011 4:00:27 PM
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Ah, found the press release that gave rise to the OP:

Depression Statistics From Around The Globe

26 Jul 2011

Depression affects 121 million people worldwide. In can affect a person's ability to work, form relationships, and destroy their quality of life. At its most severe depression can lead to suicide and is responsible for 850,000 deaths every year. New research published in BioMed Central's open access journal BMC Medicine compares social conditions with depression in 18 countries across the world.

In conjunction with the World Health Organization World Mental Health (WMH) Survey Initiative, researchers from 20 centers collaborated to investigate the prevalence of depression around the globe. To be classified as having had a Major Depressive Episode (MDE) a person was additionally required to fulfill five out of nine criteria including sadness, loss of interest or pleasure, feelings of guilt or low self-worth, disturbed sleep or appetite, low energy and poor concentration.

Based on detailed interviews with over 89,000 people, the results showed that 15% of the population from high-income countries (compared to 11% for low/middle-income countries) were likely to get depression over their lifetime with 5.5% having had depression in the last year. MDE were elevated in high-income countries (28% compared to 20%) and were especially high (over 30%) in France, the Netherlands, and America. The country with the lowest incidence was China at 12% but, in contrast, MDE were very common in India (at almost 36%).

Some aspects were cross cultural - women were twice as likely to suffer depression as men and the loss of a partner, whether from death, divorce or separation, was a main contributing factor. However the contribution of age varied from country to country. Age of onset of depression was almost two years earlier in low income countries and, while the amount of difficulty a person had with aspects of their life increased with depression and how recent their last attack was, it was more apparent in people from high income countries.

Prof Evelyn Bromet from State University of New York at Stony Brook said, "This is the first study which uses a standardized method to compare depression and MDE across countries and cultures. We have shown that depression is a significant public-health concern across all regions of the world and is strongly linked to social conditions. Understanding the patterns and causes of depression can help global initiatives in reducing the impact of depression on individual lives and in reducing the burden to society."

Notes:

Cross-National Epidemiology of DSM-IV Major Depressive Episode
Evelyn Bromet, Laura Helena Andrade, Irving Hwang, Nancy A Sampson, Jordi Alonso, Giovanni de Girolamo, Ron de Graaf, Koen Demyttenaere, Chiyi Hu, Noboro Iwata, Aimee N Karam, Jagdish Kaur, Stanislav Kostyuchenko, Jean-Pierre Lepine, Daphna Levinson, Herbert Matschinger, Maria Elena Medina Mora, Mark Oakley Browne, Jose Posada-Villa, Maria Carmen Viana, David R Williams and Ronald C Kessler
BMC Medicine (in press)

Source:
Dr. Hilary Glover
BioMed Central
claudineriddle
Posted: Sunday, April 1, 2012 3:59:59 PM
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Scientists are convinced that anxiety, depression and insomnia are linked in a strong way even if the absolute full details of this link might remain unknown. Anxiety and depression can make a person drink alcohol more than the person without it and lack of sleep can cause and add to more damage to the part of brain responsible for sleep cycles.
dingdong
Posted: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:44:49 AM
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Wealthy depressives ought to realise that their cure is generosity. Simple.
Romany
Posted: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 8:33:00 AM
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dingdong - we due respect...

Both personally and professionally, I've known several wealthy people who were generous, caring, loving and loved...yet who still suffered depression to the extent that they suicided.

Mental illness is no respecter of status, wealth, good looks or success. It is not, ever, simple.
almostfreebird
Posted: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:27:51 AM
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dingdong
Posted: Thursday, April 5, 2012 3:11:16 AM
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Romany wrote:
dingdong - we due respect...

Both personally and professionally, I've known several wealthy people who were generous, caring, loving and loved...yet who still suffered depression to the extent that they suicided.

Mental illness is no respecter of status, wealth, good looks or success. It is not, ever, simple.


Romany, your experiences of the wealthy are far more positive than mine.

I read your earlier account (August 2011) about suicides in China with great interest. Yes, I heard of suicides, all supposedly brought on by pressure. But, if the authories won't acknowledge the epidemic, then it's unlikely we'll ever find out the true causes.
In such an unkind, driven society, the suicide rate is bound to escalate.

On the subject of wealth, I understand Bill Gates and Warren Buffet visited China recently to try to encourage philanthropism and altruism. I don't know if they succeeded.
Romany
Posted: Friday, April 6, 2012 1:59:15 AM
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Hey, Dingdong,

Yes, it's maddening that the Old Guard are still so damn reactionary. But at least the Internet has made a difference and it's interesting to get onto some of the sites where the younger generations are having their say and pulling no punches. THEY have written about this subject - mainly in relation to the Middle School (and younger) kids. In a couple of cases they have even reprinted the suicide notes left behind.

I have wondered if this is not another spark which has led to the official relaxation of the One Child Policy now. (While there have always been exceptions to it, now if two people who have no siblings marry, they can have two kids.)Also, the whole Education system is going to change in 2020 (Hurrah!). So, it seems as though the endemic numbers of under-age suicides, at least, have been causing concern in official places.
dingdong
Posted: Friday, April 6, 2012 2:21:14 AM
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Only yesterday Aljazeera reported that the Chinese authorities have cracked down heavily on the social networking site 'is it Weybo?'
Paranoia about the facts getting out, eh?
I thought it was strange, when I was there, that porn was removed from the great Firewall, but Facebook was still suppressed.
Also, a hackers group has infiltrated government sites and exposed corruption.
Things are looking up. Let's hope the Chinese people find out what's going on, if they didn't already suspect. Let's hope they care.
leonAzul
Posted: Friday, April 6, 2012 2:57:05 AM

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srkdr68 wrote:
Richer Countries Have Higher Depression Rates
Study Shows U.S. Has World's Second Highest Depression Rate
By Matt McMillen
WebMD Health NewsReviewed by Laura J. Martin, MD July 26, 2011

-- Depression rates around the world vary according to a nation's affluence, with the highest income countries -- including the U.S. -- reporting the highest levels of depression, a study shows.


It shouldn't be so surprising when one stops to think about it: Only someone who could afford a doctor could be diagnosed as suffering from depression. Think
claudineriddle
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 4:16:01 AM
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There are several things that cause depression:

Most of the time nothing but your family history causes you depression. Mental disorders in the brain or living in a place where whether is cloudy and gray. Stress, access use of elicit drugs, performance at work, poor quality sleep, malnutrition are the things that causes you depression.
FounDit
Posted: Sunday, April 15, 2012 11:56:15 AM

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In my experience, depression often results from frustration that can’t be expressed sufficiently. A situation develops that is extremely unpleasant and frustrating. Anger builds, but because one is unable to exert any kind of control over the situation, the anger and frustration grows, fed by the imagination.

The mind explores avenues of expression, but for many reason, finds none that are satisfying. Absent that, the anger simmers, begins to cool, resulting in loss of hope that the situation will ever change. The anger becomes a cold arctic current, sinking to one’s core, from which it permeates every part of one’s thoughts. As the cold, dark poison spreads, it influences succeeding thoughts, which likely alter the chemistry of the brain, furthering the progression into depressive thinking.

It then becomes a vicious cycle of thinking that always has an unpleasant end. Soon, one’s own body begins to be seen as a prison from which one wishes to escape, if the thinking becomes sufficiently dark. At every turn, one imagines or experiences rejection or failure. Looking to the future, one sees no hope of change, and sinks even further into the darkness.

At this point, there is a turning away from life; a wish to escape it, and its attendant pain and suffering. Such things as mind-altering drugs or malnutrition accelerate the condition. Should this kind of thinking go on for too long a period of time, the result is obvious.

ETA: depression is no respecter of persons. It his all with equal devastation.
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