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Do you believe before life? Options
Teluu
Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 5:15:22 PM

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Most religion believe after life, their literature says, when we die we will go to so called heaven or hell with that we should prepare. Why didn't we prepare and know before we came to this life?
Blooper
Posted: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:42:29 PM
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I believe in after life but. I don't believe in before life. My religion literatures say that God gives human embryo the soul at 4 month pregnancy. A soul with no knowledge yet.
I reckon that Hindu or Konghuchu or Buddhism believe in before life.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 12:54:31 AM
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I have read that the pituitary gland is visible in the fetus at forty-nine days...however, I don't think the pituitary gland is the soul;though it may be the portal through which the soul enters (and I believe the opening through which the soul leaves the body). And perhaps, since it is there, the soul has already entered the human body before birth. Yet, there are those who believe the soul enters the body with the body's first breath.

I personally believe the soul is our consciousness. And since it is also said that it takes 49 days for the soul to reincarnate, it must mean that the soul re-enters the body on the forty-ninth day as well. I wonder if this is because it takes this long for the physical body to form the pituitary gland.

I think it is interesting that in the study of numerology that 4+9=13, and 1+3=4, the number for creativity and new beginnings. It is said that the number 13 is a mystical or holy--or sacred number. I think this is the reason why I have always liked the number 13. I think it is a number that has been misunderstood because of its association with death and the souls departure, and thus the fear and superstition associated with it.

One of the reasons why I believe that this is actually what happens at death, is because I had a revelation about three or four years ago one night, while lying in bed in which I experienced my pituitary gland opening and my soul "standing" at its opening "looking out" into a "expanding space" or "different dimension" in which I felt a kind of "drawing" or magnetic kind of pulling toward it, and I realized this is how the soul leaves the body. I only recently read that there are religions that believe this as well. I also believe that the moment of death is a blissful, euphoric feeling of joy.
GeorgeV
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:43:56 AM
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I doubt I have a soul. In spite of that death will be a relief from what surrounds me.
Blooper
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 6:56:13 AM
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Oh sorry I think I mean foetus, not embryo.

I re-check the literature and find out numbers 40 (or 42) + 40 + 40 days (4 months). God creates human in 3 phases. According to the literature, some scholars believes that soul enter the human body in the last 40 (4 months) and the others believe that soul has entered human body in 42 day pregnancy.

Oh and I believe that our soul has been "there" long before our body created but that's not a before life.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:25:21 AM
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But Blooper if as you say you believe in afterlife then by definition you believe in ‘before life’ or to put it more correctly previous existence.


George V you say: ‘I doubt I have a soul. In spite of that death will be a relief from what surrounds me.’

If that is how you really feel then why do you not get on and take that relief? I think the fact you continue to hold onto life shows you value it.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:58:01 AM
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To bloooper:

I was wondering what you mean by "Oh and I believe that our soul has been "there" long before our body created but that's not a before life."

If you mean that the soul is not newly created when it enters the body, I think this as well. Are you referring to re-incarnation?

(I like your baby picture:))
almostfreebird
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:07:53 AM
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But world population has been increasing (decreasing in Japan though), new souls must be created; and if population had been decreasing, there must have been a lot of souls that had lost their way.

I'm agnostic but I can't imagine nothingness and tend to believe there must be something after death.(wishful thinking)

Blooper
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:51:47 AM
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Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:
To bloooper:

I was wondering what you mean by "Oh and I believe that our soul has been "there" long before our body created but that's not a before life."

If you mean that the soul is not newly created when it enters the body, I think this as well. Are you referring to re-incarnation?

(I like your baby picture:))


Well, actually I found nothing in the literature except that God gives soul to the foetus in 42 or 120 days.

*Thank you, that's 2 year old me, inspired by JJ's.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:18:13 PM
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To almostafreebird:

That is a curious phenomenon. I have wondered about that too.
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:21:56 PM
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To Blooper:
I haven't seen JJ's, but would love to see it. Yours is truly a really good one. I enjoy looking at baby pictures after a person has become an adult.
GeorgeV
Posted: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:05:06 PM
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perci - thank you for the prompt.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Thursday, July 28, 2011 3:18:57 AM
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GeorgeV it was not a prompt just it was a reminder that life is good depsite its problems.
antonio
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:30:37 AM
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pedro
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:13:25 AM
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and note that LDS (latter day saints) is an anagram of LSD (lysergic acid diethyamide).Flashbacks? Coincidence I expect.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 10:19:46 AM

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Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:
To Blooper:
I haven't seen JJ's, but would love to see it. Yours is truly a really good one. I enjoy looking at baby pictures after a person has become an adult.


Are you sure you haven't seen my avatar?
Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 10:42:49 AM
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To JJ:

I thought your avatar might have been your sister, or some other family member. Is it you? Whoever it is off, it is another great picture!:)
Akkuratix
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 11:06:12 AM
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Hi Teluu. I think there is the same peace and silence before and after! Nothingness.
Jyrkkä Jätkä
Posted: Friday, July 29, 2011 11:43:59 AM

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Marissa La Faye Isolde wrote:
To JJ:

I thought your avatar might have been your sister, or some other family member. Is it you? Whoever it is off, it is another great picture!:)


JJ two years old. You can find it bigger in Games section http://forum.thefreedictionary.com/postst11884_Cute-Kids.aspx
Dreamy
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:39:23 AM

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Teluu wrote:
Most religion believe after life, their literature says, when we die we will go to so called heaven or hell with that we should prepare. Why didn't we prepare and know before we came to this life?

Hi Teluu, my understanding is that whilst knowledge of everything including our conception, birth, life, and death is pre-existent, only God has that knowledge.

It is in this life that we are free to prepare for the next one.

Psalm 139 speaks to this subject here

Quote:
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
almostfreebird
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:02:18 AM
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So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.

It's OK, I go to hell.

Marissa La Faye Isolde
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2011 10:13:29 AM
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To JJ:

I can see from the enlarged photo that the picture doesn't seem so much to be that of a little girl. When looking at the picture the size of an avatar, the details are not as clear. The "longish" baby hair made me think it was a picture of your sister for some reason. :)
Dreamy
Posted: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 2:05:17 AM

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almostfreebird wrote:

So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.

It's OK, I go to hell.

How did you work that out from what I posted, almostfreebird?

The question is whether the human soul is pre-existant. Biblical Scripture teaches that God has foreknowledge of every detail of our existence before we begin our journey in this life, but that does not mean he has predetermined everything. He just knows about it before it happens.

If a signpost tells me a certain road leads to Rome and I take that road then I am predestined to arrive at Rome.

Likewise if I am reliably informed that the only Way for me get to heaven is by my freewill choice to turn away from all that is sinful and my freewill choice to accept Christ as my personal Saviour then by following that Way I am predestined to arrive in heaven.

God in His great wisdom has predestined that unrepentant sinners who reject the free gift of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, will go to hell but He hasn't forced them to fulfill that requirement. It is always their choice.
almostfreebird
Posted: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:38:50 AM
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Hello Dreamy, I don't know much about Bible, I read about ten pages and gave up.
I'm not a Christian, though I got baptized when I was in college because one of my classmates, who was a son of priest I think, urged me to do it, I never was comfortable being in their community so I ended up quitting getting along wit him, he happened to be a New Zealander who was born in Japan.

So I can't augue using Biblical thing, but I can quote Philip K. Dick:

Barefoot conducts his seminars on his houseboat in Sausalito. It costs a hundred dollars to find out why we are on this Earth. You also get a sandwich, but I wasn't hungry that day. John Lennon had just been killed and I think I know why we are on this Earth; it's to find out that what you love the most will be taken away from you, probably due to an error in high places rather than by design.


"Everything is true", he said. "Everything anybody has ever thought"


Even if all life on our planet is destroyed, there must be other life somewhere which we know nothing of. It is impossible that ours is the only world; there must be world after world unseen by us, in some region or dimension that we simply do not perceive. Even though I can't prove that, even though it isn't logical - I believe it.

Drug_Store
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:01:24 AM
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well off course i do believe
pedro
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:27:04 AM
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almostfreebird wrote:

So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.

It's OK, I go to hell.




Bring a chess set and I'll give you a game
kingfisher
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 12:31:31 PM
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pedro wrote:



and note that LDS (latter day saints) is an anagram of LSD (lysergic acid diethyamide).Flashbacks? Coincidence I expect.


This is kind of rude and insensitive. It surprised me a little, coming from you.

Anyway, the Mormons certainly do believe in a "before life." They call it the preexistence. The belief is that God sent us here to learn and grow, the way a parent sends his/her children to school for the same purpose. For what it's worth, William Wordsworth apparently thought about the same idea; it is discussed in his poem "Ode: Intimations of Immortality." If you read the letters of John Keats to his brother, you will see that the idea of earth life as a "school" of sorts was also conceived and pretty well fleshed out by Mr. Keats, as well.

I don't think the idea is prima facie ludicrous.
SilvatungdaViel
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:43:43 PM
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"So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.

It's OK, I go to hell."

Hmm, ...have you by chance taken a moment to look around or read the news?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpu2aPlEoBM

http://www.lastdaysmystery.info/persecuted.htm

http://www.reconnections.net/shadow2.htm

http://murraycreek.net/higher/chapter5.htm

http://www.chalquist.com/redbook.html
almostfreebird
Posted: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:01:12 PM
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No. I never hit those spammer's links.

Never get you paid, Spammers.

pedro
Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 6:59:50 AM
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kingfisher wrote:
pedro wrote:



and note that LDS (latter day saints) is an anagram of LSD (lysergic acid diethyamide).Flashbacks? Coincidence I expect.


This is kind of rude and insensitive. It surprised me a little, coming from you.

Anyway, the Mormons certainly do believe in a "before life." They call it the preexistence. The belief is that God sent us here to learn and grow, the way a parent sends his/her children to school for the same purpose. For what it's worth, William Wordsworth apparently thought about the same idea; it is discussed in his poem "Ode: Intimations of Immortality." If you read the letters of John Keats to his brother, you will see that the idea of earth life as a "school" of sorts was also conceived and pretty well fleshed out by Mr. Keats, as well.

I don't think the idea is prima facie ludicrous.



It was not designed totally to offend (although I do wish people would lighten up when it comes to religion). LSD experiences are quite strongly linked to death/near death experiences (I couldn't find the link I wanted but there are a couple of others to give the gist)

http://www.neardeathdialogues.com/Dialogues/nde1/lsdnde.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/lsd02.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers04.html

I have the same difficulties with pre-existence as with post. A child comes into the world, whilst not exactly a 'tabla rasa', without very much evidence of having accumulated any wisdom from a previous incarnation. Nowadays, in affluent countries at any rate, there is a strong likelihood that if you do get to receive the Queen's telegram you will have already lost most of the thinking and communicating skills that define you as a human being. Even in my indoctrinated days in a Roman Catholic school, priests and teachers had difficulty explaining which particular 'you' it is that is summoned from the grave raptured into eternal bliss. I rejected my 'faith' quite early in life and have never been remotely convinced by any arguments for it since.

nb: When a thread on the forum turns into a dialogue between fellow converts (sometimes a monologue) you will usually note my absence.
percivalpecksniff
Posted: Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:07:26 AM
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No I do not believe in before life and the implication behind it of reincarnation. Of what value is a pre-existence to the life now, if no knowledge of it exists? How can one learn from mistakes? What is the point of coming back as say a cockroach... a cow... a worm or even another human?

Does the cockroach set about learning from past mistakes from his time as a human? What relevance is the human experience to the life of the cockroach? What is the purpose of a cycle of life that is supposed to end in nothingness as the untimate achievement?




I think the idea of pre-existence is about as plausible as that of life springing from nothing... self-generation or abiogenesis.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:38:33 AM

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pedro wrote:
almostfreebird wrote:

So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.

It's OK, I go to hell.




Bring a chess set and I'll give you a game


But you can't take your Bishops to Hell so it will be a funny old game of chess.Whistle
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:47:41 AM

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Dreamy says '...If a signpost tells me a certain road leads to Rome and I take that road then I am predestined to arrive at Rome...'

Surely you are predestined only to take that road. You might not reach Rome. I look at it this way - if I am predestined to go to Rome I will take the road that leads me there and I will definitely reach Rome.
jacobusmaximus
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:00:20 AM

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Teluu wrote:
Most religion believe after life, their literature says, when we die we will go to so called heaven or hell with that we should prepare. Why didn't we prepare and know before we came to this life?


I believe that our soul is part of our life as soon as we are conceived. It does not exist before that. At some time before birth our soul will begin to develop in reaction to our mother's experiences, e.g. anxiety, trauma. In life our soul develops in reaction to our environment and our nature and continues to grow so that it becomes the 'real' us - body, mind and spirit. When we die the body and mind are gone but the spirit lives on. Where it lives - forever - depends upon the decisions we make before we die.
pedro
Posted: Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:44:11 AM
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jacobusmaximus wrote:
pedro wrote:
almostfreebird wrote:

So according to Dreamy's religious thinking, I must go to hell.

It's OK, I go to hell.




Bring a chess set and I'll give you a game


But you can't take your Bishops to Hell so it will be a funny old game of chess.Whistle




I was going to suggest that there must have been at least four who have been excommunicated and perhaps we could use them. Alas! upon googling I found this;

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/europe/25pope.html

..and exactly four so he must have had me in mind. Popes!
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