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HWNN1961
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:12:01 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/2010
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This is a topic that I had to step away from for awhile after yesterday's Stanley Cup Final game seven.

The knee-jerk reaction was to be repulsed by the near-riot of Canuck fans.

I wondered: did they feel ripped off, that the championship was somehow "stolen"? Can't be. They lost fair-and-square, and convincingly. 4-0 is a rout.

Why did they burn cars and riot? It's a game for the love of Pete!


Vancouver 2011 is just a segway into a deeper question. Some cities or nations lose a championship and they are quiet. Some riot. Heck, some cities riot when they win!

I come from Buffalo, we have lost 2 Stanley Cup finals, and 4 Superbowls. We never rioted and burned.


My question is this: Why do some cities explode, and why do others remain calm?
ellana
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 3:19:11 AM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/2010
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Location: Roquefort, Provence-Alpes-Cote d'Azur, France
As a Canadian living abroad, I'm shocked to see the outrageous behaviour in Vancouver following the Stanley Cup finals. Why is it that some sports losses turn into violent mayhem? I sometimes find the human race a discouraging lot. I also wonder if some of these inciters might be spending too much time playing violent virtual games and finally see the opportunity to do it for real. There's too much money and too much violence in some of today's sports. A reality check is of the essence.

Sport is defined as a source of diversion or recreation, practiced individually or as a team (even professionally) requiring physical skill, having a set of rules or code of practice. Sore losers do not figure in the equation.
Seth
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 3:52:10 AM
Rank: Newbie

Joined: 6/4/2011
Posts: 15
Neurons: 45
Location: Japan
In France, after most soccer games there are problems ... Burned, turned over cars, fights, sometimes murders or racial crimes ... Why is that so .. Frustration I would say.

It appears to me that frustration is the main factor, but of course alone, it is always a damp-squid. As the Vancouver Police said, some individuals prepared the riots coming with weapons, masks and so on.

Now, the Canucks fans were angry, frustrated, they needed something to destroy with their own hands to cool down ... then they see 2/3 people burning a car ... and they follow. If those 3 suckers hadn't done anything ... nothing would've probably happened ...

This is the crowd effect that works like dominoes ... one starts and the whole rest follows. Then the police come in and smash faces along with knees and arms. So those that weren't already rioting go crazy at the sight of the police rampaging on "them", thus increasing the domino effect.

Still according to the Vancouver's police, the thugs that started everything were probably from outer areas to Vancouver.

You are from Buffalo and nothing happened there because there was nobody to start anything, or because just behave better than others. Each city has its own "culture", and Vancouver is a city where drug and alcohol are everywhere. So even if the city is calm usually, it seems easy to set it on fire.

France is an other problem, a racial problem mixed with religious problem and a high need for "kicks" from certain people.

Then Japan and its culture press down any kind of riot simply because the people are wayyyyyy far from understanding the meaning of it and don't see the point in destroying cars to suppress your anger.

Germany, also racial problems and so on ...

there isn't one answer, but thousands...




blue2
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:15:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/2010
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Location: Préveza, Epirus, Greece
Well, I think you have probably seen the mayhem that occurred in Athens recently. It is not uncommon. Seth has hit the nail on the head. This type of thing happens quite often after football matches here. Even before or during the match. It is not limited to football though. When people are out in the street demonstrating about one thing or another (quite common here), you will quite ofter also see "the hoods", as they are called here, out burning cars,smashing windows and generally destroying whatever public or private property happens to be nearby. I personally call them "s**t disturbers" because that is what they are. They usually have nothing to do with whatever demonstration or protest is occurring, they just want to go out and make trouble. I don't know how often Athens has turned into a war zone.

I was disappointed with the Canucks loss, but I'm shocked and horrified with news about the rioting. It's hard to take in. In Vancouver no less!
GabhSigenod
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 8:22:54 AM

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Location: Mulroog, Connaught, Ireland
Rioting can be a tactic of certain people and organizations,
or just madness bleeding over into the world of sports.
Some will partake of both, just for the practice.
Christine
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 9:12:28 AM
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Joined: 4/3/2009
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alcohol
redgriffin
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 11:45:10 AM
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Joined: 9/3/2010
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Location: Portland, Oregon, United States
There seems to be a new group in the world today they started in the late 60's and have gotten stronger as the years go by and those are the Sports Hooligans. They started in Great Britain or they were first noticed there and they have spread all over the world and they have morphed into people who now fight for the h*ll of it. I feel sorry for Vancouver but I am also fascinated by the response here in the US we just shrug our collective shoulders and say "What are you gonna do." In Canada they come out and clean up the mess en mass I think we could learn something from our neighbor to the North. So I say Yeah Canada!
richsap
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:16:35 PM
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I will no doubt take a beating for this, but here is my opinion nontheless.

There are those people in the world that excel at sports and all things sports-related. There are those that excel at excercising their minds instead of their fists. The former are more likely to attend sporting events, the latter to post on TFD about the actions of the former.

My stepson is a sports fanatic. Very, very atheletic but very poor in areas requiring deep thought and temperment. I would say he is very typical of the clientel at a soccer game. He acts and reacts quickly, sometimes almost violently, without much thought. Pure adreniline. Consequences come later with this lot... Ready, shoot, aim!

I'm not saying that ALL atheletes are stupid and that all athletic supporters stink, er, are angry fanatics. I am saying that on average athletic events attract, shall we say, those that are more inclined toward physical altercations than those at your average chess tournament. Remember how that Bobby Fischer guy beat the crap out of his opponent after a tough game of chess? Me neither. Dancing
redgriffin
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 5:41:42 PM
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while i tend to agree with you of the idea for your post Richsap the people who rioted in Vancouver were "sports fans" who anted to show that they could do a stupid thing just because their team lost a game I know some sports players who are dumb as posts at times and I know some who are very smart but a hooligan is a hooligan.
excaelis
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 5:58:37 PM

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Joined: 6/30/2010
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I don't think the riot ( nothing near about it, H !) had much to do with sports. Alcohol, testosterone and stupidity don't need a reason. Thosse people are just temperamental : 99.9% temper, 0.01 % mental.
Geeman
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:28:23 PM

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Joined: 10/2/2009
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Location: Whittier, California, United States
I don't know if alcohol, stupidity or even sports in general work as a proximate cause of this kind of thing. After all, plenty of people drink without turning over cars. Lots of stupid people manage to go a whole week without breaking storefront windows. It's hard to imagine getting all worked up over a golf game and rioting....

Is it the combination? If golf fans were stupider and drunker would they run around as 19th hole hooligans? If beer was taken out of the hands of soccer fans would they become sedate?

In truth, it probably has something to do with mob mentality and the clannish tribalism that humans have because of our apish ancestors. I remember watching some documentary about monkeys in zoos throwing their feces at people and then another about the behavior of prisoners. It turns out inmates also throw poo at people passing by. Can we compare and contrast monkey territorialism with sports violence as easily?
HWNN1961
Posted: Friday, June 17, 2011 6:31:14 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/2010
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There is a more insidious form of sports related violence as well:

After the Bills win/lose: check with the local police departments for the spike in:

DUI/DWI arrests.
Disorderly conduct/assault arrests at local watering holes.
Reports of domestic violence.

In the stadium:


Ask the security people just how many people they had to arrest/eject from the stands. Ask them what a headache it is keeping a lid on the drunken slobs that arrive at the stadium lot hours before the game, and commence to power-drinking until they are blind.

Yes, alcohol plays a role. It reduces inhibition. But, the people doing this are mostly repeat offenders. The alcohol just greases the skids for the mayhem they intend to partake in anyway.

So, there is a "slow motion" riot that takes place nearly every football Sunday in Western NY. My area doesn't get off the hook, trust me.

Once upon a time, I held seasons tickets to the Bills. I gave them up, because the constant brawls, lewd behavior just got to be a headache. You meet lots of great people at the game, but, some go specifically to raise hell, and it's hard to avoid them. I still go to games, but not nearly as often.
GeorgeV
Posted: Saturday, June 18, 2011 3:53:22 PM
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Joined: 4/3/2009
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Location: Canada
memphis jailer
Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:57:56 PM
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Joined: 6/30/2010
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Location: United States
season tickets at the ralph .... THAT sounds like fun!!! i can't imagine a better time
TL Hobs
Posted: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 9:22:48 PM
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/2009
Posts: 1,399
Neurons: 6,101
Location: Kenai, Alaska, United States
Let me begin by saying I am not a sports fan. But, years ago, I lived in Chicago and went to a Cubs game at Wrigley Field against the San Francisco Giants. The Cubs won after 11 innings. My wife and 16 year old daughter and I got on the El train to go home. A drunk, obnoxious, belligerent Cubs fan was at the opposite end of the rail car and made his way in our direction. Along the way, he cussed and threatened everybody he met. Nobody challenged him. Most tried to avoid him. By the time he got to me, I had all of his BS that I was willing to take. I stood up in the middle of the aisle and made eye contact with him. Through body language and my facial expression, I let him know that in no uncertain terms if he was looking for trouble, he was about to find it. I was prepared to take him down and cause him serious pain, or get beat in the process of trying. I am 6'2", in good shape and can be meaner than a junk yard dog, if need be. He was drunk and I was cold sober. He started to challenge me and backed down at the last moment when he saw that I was not going to cower and run. Somehow, enough sense got through to his inebriated mind to allow him to reflect on the situation and change his actions.

What I never understood about him, or people like him, is how would he have behaved if his favorite team had lost? Drunk or sober, there is no excuse for that kind of bad behavior in public such as is exhibited by sports fans. This guy came very close to having a life changing experience of the worst kind.
memphis jailer
Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:22:00 PM
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Joined: 6/30/2010
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i don't get to see the drunk idiots at games cause i rarely go .... i do however get to see the inebriated fools at concerts ... i'm hanging my head when i say this .... i used to be one of the inebriated idiots at the show ... not really wanting to fight (cause i'm a happy drunk) but push toward to the front of the crowd (the type of music i went to see is a bit rough at times) .... now i still try and get to the front but i do so by getting there early lol
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